Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)

[Lovec Krys]

@PaNonymeB And upgrading a single building in Embassies is very expensive (f.e. T2/T5 manu costs 1/3! of your max. coins capacity). And if you negotiate in Spire's 3rd floor, you're short of coins already (especialy with low or no culture bonus).
No, coins requirements from Spire, upgrading buildings & new Tourney combined are simply crazy.

 

[Deleted User - 89361]

Yes, base Spire SS is ~5x (not exactly, but very close) of the base tournament SS. This assumes that there were no city changes in-between Sunday and Tuesday.

Thanks dude.

 

[spennyit]

Not sure which numbers you want, ...

I am interested in OWN TSS and ENEMY TSS per province per star, but from people at end of chapter 16 with a TRAINING SS of 5316 Thank you anyway

 

[ErestorX]

That's how I get this 312267 coins/square/day result. In fact, I'm considering we build residences to get population, and then connect them to get coins. Thus the only extra squares we need to get coins are the road squares.

The problem is: Your main source of gold income are Abyss and neighbourly help you give. To increase this income a bit you can use residences in the way you described until you connected all your residences. But after you have connected all your residences the number of sqares needed to increase your gold income any further is much higher!

 

[DeletedUser3289]

In fact, there are :

• Disconnected residences, that take 20 squares, plus 5.95 squares needed to get the culture it takes, so 25.95 squares to get 7500 population
• Connected residences, that take the same 25.95 squares, plus 2 road squares (half of the short side of the residence, as you can have a bulding on each side of a road). But, besides giving coins, the residence also gives 7500 population (25.95 squares worth) and the roads give 770 culture (1.00 squares worth), so that you're actually using only 1.00 extra squares to get the coins.

That's how I get this 312267 coins/square/day result. In fact, I'm considering we build residences to get population, and then connect them to get coins. Thus the only extra squares we need to get coins are the road squares.

It looks interesting if you break it into pieces.
But for an overall city, of reasonable expansions, the entire weekly production and sum of catering 20 provinces, 6 rounds will be way off limits.

 

[spennyit]

The problem is: Your main source of gold income are Abyss and neighbourly help you give. To increase this income a bit you can use residences in the way you described until you connected all your residences. But after you have connected all your residences the number of sqares needed to increase your gold income any further is much higher!

If this is your approach, neighbours help on Mainhall should be considered.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I am interested in OWN TSS and ENEMY TSS per province per star, but from people at end of chapter 16 with a TRAINING SS of 5316 Thank you anyway

That is not hard to figure out. Over in Minmax Gamer's thread, he has posted his link with updated formulas to calculate this. Also, no matter what your starting squad size is for the 1st star of the 1st province, each province after that will have that amount added to it for the new size. For example, if your squad size starts at 500, then it will be 1000 for the 1st star of the 2nd province, 2500 for the 1st star of the 5th province, 5000 for the 1st of the 10th province, and so on. And the new enemy squad size modifiers have been posted in this thread and on his page.

 

[spennyit]

That is not hard to figure out. Over in Minmax Gamer's thread, he has posted his link with updated formulas to calculate this. Also, no matter what your starting squad size is for the 1st star of the 1st province, each province after that will have that amount added to it for the new size. For example, if your squad size starts at 500, then it will be 1000 for the 1st star of the 2nd province, 2500 for the 1st star of the 5th province, 5000 for the 1st of the 10th province, and so on. And the new enemy squad size modifiers have been posted in this thread and on his page.

Great, so I just need that somebody at end of chapter 16 with TRAINING SS of 5316 tells me which is his starting TSS at province 1 star 1 ;-) Of course we will have different AWs level/Expansions and, possibly, researchs (I did all), but it would be a great starting point to simulate what to expect

 

[Dony]

Great, so I just need that somebody at end of chapter 16 with TRAINING SS of 5316 tells me which is his starting TSS at province 1 star 1 ;-) Of course we will have different AWs level/Expansions and, possibly, researchs (I did all), but it would be a great starting point to simulate what to expect

city at the end of ch16 with max advancemet has 2255 squad size in first province 1*
city at the end of ch16 without AWs and expansions has 10 squad size in first province 1*
(yep AWs and expansions has minor impact...)

 

[spennyit]

Thank you @Dony This is quite a clear evidence that AWs levels and expansions have TOO A BIG IMPACT on the TSS :-(

BTW, can you also tell me which are "max advancement" you considered for AWs levels (???) and expansions (154, I suppose)? This will help me in simulating an interpolation to approssimate my starting TTS

Thank you in advance

 

[Dony]

Free expansion from research = 49
Free expansions from world map = 62
Premium Expansions = 37
AWs = 29*35+30 = 1045

 

[Heymrdiedier]

city at the end of ch16 with max advancemet has 2255 squad size in first province 1*
city at the end of ch16 without AWs and expansions has 10 squad size in first province 1*
(yep AWs and expansions has minor impact...)

without expansions, do you mean with only the expansions you start the game with? because thats unrealistic, it doesnt fit the portal of wizards and dragons.

but this sure makes a good new challenge. Getting endtech without placing any expansions

 

[Dony]

I am not saying it is realistic, but for comparison its enough

 

[spennyit]

Free expansion from research = 49
Free expansions from world map = 62
Premium Expansions = 37
AWs = 29*35+30 = 1045

Thant you @Dony That's exactly what I was hoping for

Now it could be interesting to have intermediate data (i.e. different chapters, AWs levels, expansions) from other people so to "imagine" the formula

 

[Dony]

Thant you @Dony That's exactly what I was hoping for

Now it could be interesting to have intermediate data (i.e. different chapters, AWs levels, expansions) from other people so to "imagine" the formula

Naked chapter 1 city has 10 squad size in first province 1* aswell, so not much to compare (it will have cheaper catering because it takes real numbers into counting and not this rounded one)
But you can already see that doing progress in game will hurt you in a long term, maybe you will be fine next week, but wait 2 years and then you will see your consequences (if you will still be playing this game).

In every RPG out there getting better gear/better stats is rewarding without punishment (mainly because they know how to properly balance it).
In this game however, finding your sweet spot is your end goal, and never ever progress past that point.

And maybe its time to talk about changing AWs to improve based on city progress aswell and not some funny random numbers which was decided years ago. Why should i pay more mana in spire when i place new expansion, but my mana generation is not increased by that?
All possible wonders should be based on expansion now aswell to compansate this. There is zero reason that enars gives a negligible amount of mana once per week for end tech players based on scouted provinces?

but this sure makes a good new challenge. Getting endtech without placing any expansions

finishing orcs chapter is possible without expansions and i didnt payed attention after that due orcs requirement, but once tournaments are finally released with all planned changes i will look into it, if placing 2 free premium expansions could do the trick to continue for later chapters with minimal SS increase

 

[palmira]

This crystal tournament is specially difficult or am I particularly unlucky with the troops combination? I had to cater about half the encounters after province ~15, lost a gazillion troops and I have 2 fed phoenixes, one armorer and one each of the other temporaries. I only made it so far to province 31 and won't go much further for sure. Are all you guys sure they eased the thing and not indeed made it more difficult?

 

[spennyit]

Naked chapter 1 city has 10 squad size in first province 1* aswell,

This would mean that researches are not part of the formula or count 0 if AWs/Exp are 0, but I consider it impossible since Expansions is at least 6, which are the starting Expansions :-( How did you get the 2255 and 10 numbers?

 

[spennyit]

This crystal tournament is specially difficult or am I particularly unlucky with the troops combination? I had to cater about half the encounters after province ~15, lost a gazillion troops and I have 2 fed phoenixes, one armorer and one each of the other temporaries. I only made it so far to province 31 and won't go much further for sure. Are all you guys sure they eased the thing and not indeed made it more difficult?

Also on EN server they are finding it particularly difficult :-(

 

[marcovaldo19]

...

If you look at EN forum, people who were able to open up to 20 provinces, now are limited to 11 (at 1 star!!!) and this seems definitely too drastic :-(

...

Strange also EN gets province 12 difficult. I wonder if there is a hidden rule about that

 

[PaNonymeB]

About catering (part 2) :
Assuming all possible catering costs for an encounter have the same value (see part 1 about the validity of this hypothesis),we can calculate the value of catering costs in old and new tournaments, and see if they actually have been halved.
Using https://fr.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/de-léquilibre-entre-combat-et-négociation.20493/post-1010456 as reference for catering costs in old tournaments, I found that average catering costs per squad size on the 6 stars were ~6.8 T1 + 6.8 T2 + 6.8 T3 + 0.1 orcs.
Converting this into catering slots, this is 2.1 slots of T1 + 2.8 slots of T2 + 4.2 slots of T3 + 0.15 slots of orcs, which is 9.2 slots total that has been now reduced to 3 slots. So catering costs have actually been (roughly) divided by 3 (hoping I will not regret this sentence...)
But they additionally decided to change the balance between goods asked (now asking for less T1, T2, and T3 and more orcs, mana, coins and supplies) and to make the type of goods asked much more random, and still give no reason for these changes, although I asked a month ago and repeated the question two weeks ago. I think it's long enough to say they don't listen and answer to feedback.