-
Dear forum reader,
To actively participate on the forum by joining discussions or starting your own threads or topics, you need a game account and to REGISTER HERE!
Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)
- Thread starter Marindor
- Start date
Lovec Krys
Well-Known Member
And how much?
Because if they decreased it by 1%, it still fits the definition of decreased, but it's unnoticable by players (zero trust left).
Because if they decreased it by 1%, it still fits the definition of decreased, but it's unnoticable by players (zero trust left).
spennyit
Well-Known Member
Nothing is said in the release notes: did you expected something different? ;-)
Let's hope that they who will do the tournament this week will be able to give us numbers
@MinMax Gamer, you are our greatest hope
Let's hope that they who will do the tournament this week will be able to give us numbers
@MinMax Gamer, you are our greatest hope DeletedUser2803
Guest
Battle difficulty can be calculated by everyone quite easily. Just divide enemy squad size by your own squad size. Then compare the value to the one from last week (I think someone posted the chart).
spennyit
Well-Known Member
Right, but somebody has to do it and publish the data (own SS, enemy SS for each province and for each star)
DeepTerminal
Active Member
Comparison between the previous and current difficulties:
Bold and dotted lines are two ways to get 1620 points.
Bold and dotted lines are two ways to get 1620 points.
Deleted User - 81190
Guest
Maillie
Well-Known Member
As horrible as these tournaments are, including the punishment for the AW's, the only thing left to do in the game is to go around clicking on buildings every three hours. I have a feeling that's going to get old very fast when the ones that are still able to do the tournaments move their way up to the bigger chapters and get the door slammed in their faces. The tournament is a great way to move ahead, but what are they moving ahead to?
DeletedUser3289
Guest
I’d predict the next chapter to have something to do about this. Probably AWs.
But yeah, it’s a challenge to stay until next chapter
Maillie
Well-Known Member
I'm not looking forward to another chapter of this. It's still clicking on buildings every 3 hours in whatever chapter. If you're going to stop the top end level players from doing 100 provinces in the tournament why stop all of the chapter 16 players at 10 when the top players with the multiple phoenixes are moving right along to the 19th chest? Why not put the hammer down on maybe the 30th province, or 40th province? You're probably not going to hurt the ones that can do 19 chests anyway. This is awful.
PaNonymeB
Well-Known Member
About catering (part 1) :
I made a spreadsheet to calculate how much we can produce per square per day, to see the actual value of each good.
I calculated the values for an end-game city, assuming it benefits from additional culture/population given by buildings and roads (i.e. e.g. it needs some cultural buildings and doesn't get more than enough culture from pop/culture hybrids or mana producers).
Here are the productions per square per day I found using regular buildings (so buildings from the Culture menu for culture and mana), and no wonders :
Coins 312267 (very high as the only additional space you need to get coins is the roads needed to connect your residences)
Supplies 2760.5
T1 goods 389.4 (I assumed 4×3h + 1×9h productions per day, with 700% boost)
T2 goods 260.8 (note : I used max level factories for the calculations, which isn't optimal level)
T3 goods 221.0
Orcs 27.67 (note that here we considered training size given by armories has no value)
Mana 1644.6
I made the same calculations using craftable buildings for culture (lava codex), population (rainbow flower cage), orcs (orc nest) and mana (mana sawmill) :
Coins 21401 (lower than the value above, as now to get coins you need to put a residence that takes extra space compared to more efficient population buildings)
Supplies 4214.8
T1 617.2
T2 385.5 (Traveling Merchants give 483.5, so are better for T2 and T3)
T3 217.3
Orcs 110.7
Mana 2098.7
For the new catering system to be balanced, the amounts of each good than can be asked in an encounter should have the same value (so that the type of good asked is random, but the value isn't). I.e. the ratios between the amounts should be similar as the ratios shown above.
And below are the goods that can be asked for an encounter with squad size 1 (credits @MinMax Gamer) :
Coins 258.1
Supplies 25.81
T1 3.247
T2 2.461
T3 1.618
Orcs 0.653
Mana 5.168
The 5.168 mana seems to have a lower value (= can be produced more easily) and the 0.653 orcs a higher value. Trader values a T2 good as 1.5 T1 goods, and it's quite consistent with what we see above, so the 3.247 T1 has slightly lower value than the 2.461 T2, but this slight difference can be erased depending on cities. The coins/suppplies ×10 ratio is consistent with what we see elsewhere in the game.
Note too that wonders that reduce population/culture needs would increase factory productions per square (as you need less squares to get the population/culture needed to build the factory) and not mana production per square, so that mana doesn't actually have an as low value (compared to T1/T2/T3) as shown by the calculation.
Then the odds of each good to appear change how much space we should allocate to each production buildings. (e.g. orcs appearing less often means we should allocate less space to orc prodduction.)
I made a spreadsheet to calculate how much we can produce per square per day, to see the actual value of each good.
I calculated the values for an end-game city, assuming it benefits from additional culture/population given by buildings and roads (i.e. e.g. it needs some cultural buildings and doesn't get more than enough culture from pop/culture hybrids or mana producers).
Here are the productions per square per day I found using regular buildings (so buildings from the Culture menu for culture and mana), and no wonders :
Coins 312267 (very high as the only additional space you need to get coins is the roads needed to connect your residences)
Supplies 2760.5
T1 goods 389.4 (I assumed 4×3h + 1×9h productions per day, with 700% boost)
T2 goods 260.8 (note : I used max level factories for the calculations, which isn't optimal level)
T3 goods 221.0
Orcs 27.67 (note that here we considered training size given by armories has no value)
Mana 1644.6
I made the same calculations using craftable buildings for culture (lava codex), population (rainbow flower cage), orcs (orc nest) and mana (mana sawmill) :
Coins 21401 (lower than the value above, as now to get coins you need to put a residence that takes extra space compared to more efficient population buildings)
Supplies 4214.8
T1 617.2
T2 385.5 (Traveling Merchants give 483.5, so are better for T2 and T3)
T3 217.3
Orcs 110.7
Mana 2098.7
For the new catering system to be balanced, the amounts of each good than can be asked in an encounter should have the same value (so that the type of good asked is random, but the value isn't). I.e. the ratios between the amounts should be similar as the ratios shown above.
And below are the goods that can be asked for an encounter with squad size 1 (credits @MinMax Gamer) :
Coins 258.1
Supplies 25.81
T1 3.247
T2 2.461
T3 1.618
Orcs 0.653
Mana 5.168
The 5.168 mana seems to have a lower value (= can be produced more easily) and the 0.653 orcs a higher value. Trader values a T2 good as 1.5 T1 goods, and it's quite consistent with what we see above, so the 3.247 T1 has slightly lower value than the 2.461 T2, but this slight difference can be erased depending on cities. The coins/suppplies ×10 ratio is consistent with what we see elsewhere in the game.
Note too that wonders that reduce population/culture needs would increase factory productions per square (as you need less squares to get the population/culture needed to build the factory) and not mana production per square, so that mana doesn't actually have an as low value (compared to T1/T2/T3) as shown by the calculation.
Then the odds of each good to appear change how much space we should allocate to each production buildings. (e.g. orcs appearing less often means we should allocate less space to orc prodduction.)
Last edited:
spennyit
Well-Known Member
I cannot agree on your calculations: definitely my productions at end of chapter 16 are quite less, orcs apart. How the hell can you produce 312267 coins per square in a day??? Lv 37 residences produce 285000 every 22h and are 20 squares :-( Maybe I made some mistakes in reading your message :-(
PaNonymeB
Well-Known Member
In fact, there are :
- Disconnected residences, that take 20 squares, plus 5.95 squares needed to get the culture it takes, so 25.95 squares to get 7500 population
- Connected residences, that take the same 25.95 squares, plus 2 road squares (half of the short side of the residence, as you can have a bulding on each side of a road). But, besides giving coins, the residence also gives 7500 population (25.95 squares worth) and the roads give 770 culture (1.00 squares worth), so that you're actually using only 1.00 extra squares to get the coins.
Deleted User - 89361
Guest
Is there any relation between the number of the initial squad size of the Spire's first encounter and the number of the first province in the 1st round of the tournament? E.g. the starting squad size of the tournament is that of the first encounter of the Spire divided by 4 or so.
Deleted User - 81190
Guest
Yes, base Spire SS is ~5x (not exactly, but very close) of the base tournament SS. This assumes that there were no city changes in-between Sunday and Tuesday.
spennyit
Well-Known Member
Thank you @MinMax Gamer
I should say that their approach should be a "little" different
Enemies SS / Own SS ratio should be:
- 0,8 at 10th province
- 1,2 at 20th province
- 1,5 at 30th province
- whatever they want above
Between these thresholds the growth should be linear (as it already is).
Enemies troops mix should be more friendly (3 types at most with less MistWalkers).
If you look at EN forum, people who were able to open up to 20 provinces, now are limited to 11 (at 1 star!!!) and this seems definitely too drastic :-(
I hope INNO maintain some interesting concepts (I like the 1 hit encounters and the new diagonal approach (1-6 == 6-1)), but should mild up quite a bit the steepness and the enemies mix. Furthermore, as already been said by many others, the AWs/Research/Expansions "penalization" should be "addictive" (based on the sum operation) and NOT "multiplicative" (based on a multiplication operation): "almost exponential effect" is not good, fair and acceptable in this case ;-)
I hope I didn't miss anything
Last edited:
Enevhar Aldarion
Well-Known Member
Can you show us the numbers you have? Also for past weeks, if you still have them. Thank you
Not sure which numbers you want, but after another week of research and upgrades and expansions, etc, my tournament squad size again was almost equal to my world map squad size in between the 9th and 10th provinces. My current world map squad is 321, my squad for 9th province - 1st star was 314, and squad for 10th province - 1st star was 348. I think this pattern may be staying this way because I am not skipping any squad upgrades in research. But so far, it has stayed true for every week of the new tournament after the first week.