Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)

[spennyit]

... only cases where it will actually be harder is for players on the end tech tree with 8 or lower number of premium expansions, which will be very little number of players

Can you clarify? I understood that expansions ("normal" or premium) make the tournament/spire more difficult, not under a certain number. BTW, I think that the majority has less than 8 premium expansions. On my server I am in top 200 having finished chapter 16 and I have 10/8 premium expansions (bought during chapter 15/16): I suppose the majority of other players have quite less premium expansions

 

[marcovaldo19]

@Kersepitje Here is my layout for province 12. dosent seem tremendous

 

[PaNonymeB]

in most cases it will lower difficulty for everybody, only cases where it will actually be harder is for players on the end tech tree with 8 or lower number of premium expansions,

Did you already find the formula ?

 

[Kersepitje]

@Kersepitje Here is my layout for province 12. dosent seem tremendous
View attachment 7778

thx marco.

From my own personal experience: in this case i think you might be wiping because you chose mortars as your units. Mortars are great as long as you can kill the enemies before they get too close. In this case i think you are fighting against too many enemy 1505 vs 2452 so that's 60% more units then you have. you will need to have a big +attack power to prevent them from getting too close in large amounts.

 

[marcovaldo19]

thx marco.

From my own personal experience: in this case i think you might be wiping because you chose mortars as your units. Mortars are great as long as you can kill the enemies before they get too close. In this case i think you are fighting against too many enemy 1505 vs 2452 so that's 60% more units then you have. you will need to have a big +attack power to prevent them from getting too close in large amounts.

i forgot to say that this fight I won with the loss of 2 platoons. In the first star event i tried with archers as well and also with blessed paladins if i well remember, before catering. In the second star I won with big losses using motars. I have lost 3 platoons and the 2 remaining where hit as well heavily

 

[Aeva]

If I wanted that "new city" feeling, then I would make a new city

And that is what I also did. I have four cities. The first one is my main city live, which is Elvenar and doing very well. One is not active anymore, due to to much pressure overall in a new live world. The third city is the one I rebuilt twice, it is now a special fairy city on a live world. And then there is a charming small dwarf city here on beta.
Thanks for your apoligies, not neccesary though. I just wanted to point out that there can be reasons to rebuilt a city.

 

[Deleted User - 81190]

so overall players will benefit from it even if its for spire only yet

That might be the case, but it does not explain why do it now, if the formula is (presumably) still in flux. So if they need to change anything there, they'll have to deal with that new impact - for no reason whatsoever. No one I know expected any Spire changes on live, beneficial or not. Most won't even notice most likely, and certainly not until Sunday.

But you know what they will notice? The very obvious visual bug on <100% zoom that they've brought with this. I still don't get why this change had to be rushed for live.

 

[spennyit]

Well, I worked for about 40 years in IT and testing activities meant try, adjust, retry, readjust and so on.

In Elvenar (both beta and EN servers) everybody is complaining that the new tournament is not working as it is and no adjustment is taken plus complete silence from INNO.

I am wondering which kind of testing are you undergoing: just measuring how long does it take to us to stop complaining because we definitely see that you are completely not interested in our constructive comments? We gave you a lot of numbers, suggestions and so on and ... SILENCE. This makes us definitely willing to invest real money in your game ;-) (It is a joke, just in case you don't understand the irony BAZINGA;-))

 

[edeba]

Between the two beta threads, 76 pages of feedback, and now 16 on the EN server, and indeed, very little back. Adjustments were so marginal and meaningful feedback very absent.

Well, I worked for about 40 years in IT and testing activities meant try, adjust, retry, readjust and so on.

In Elvenar (both beta and EN servers) everybody is complaining that the new tournament is not working as it is and no adjustment is taken plus complete silence from INNO.

I am wondering which kind of testing are you undergoing: just measuring how long does it take to us to stop complaining because we definitely see that you are completely not interested in our constructive comments? We gave you a lot of numbers, suggestions and so on and ... SILENCE. This makes us definitely willing to invest real money in your game ;-) (It is a joke, just in case you don't understand the irony BAZINGA;-))

 

[spennyit]

Interesting message from Muf-Muf on EN forum #311. Finally we hear from INNO

Edit: after reading it, unfortunately, no news apart that it seems that they have no plan to change what they have done, but they are still analyzing ("However, we cannot guarantee any changes right now, as we're still analyzing and processing feedback and data before making decisions, and we will be doing that for at least a few more weeks."). My impression is that they are happy with what they are doing although the vast majority of the players is not happy. I think that the only way to convince them that they are wrong is to stop doing high level tournaments, but this, of course, is a personal choice. If top players (expecially on EN server: "we are mostly looking for real player behavior with the feature right now") do just 6 provinces maybe they will understand that they are not in the right direction. Just my personal opinion

 

[Lovec Krys]

I think that the only way to convince them that they are wrong is to stop doing high level tournaments, but this, of course, is a personal choice.

I think otherwise, the only thing to stop them is massive decline of revenue, nothing else can stop them from making no or cosmetic changes.

 

[CrazyWizard]

I think otherwise, the only thing to stop them is massive decline of revenue, nothing else can stop them from making no or cosmetic changes.

The issue is by the time that massive decline sets in, it's already to late.
Those who left in general do no longer return. that loss is permanent.

 

[Lovec Krys]

@CrazyWizard Yes, but if someone doesn't want to listen, someone will have to deal with the consequences.

 

[PaNonymeB]

Interesting message from Muf-Muf on EN forum #311. Finally we hear from INNO

Edit: after reading it, unfortunately, no news apart that it seems that they have no plan to change what they have done, but they are still analyzing ("However, we cannot guarantee any changes right now, as we're still analyzing and processing feedback and data before making decisions, and we will be doing that for at least a few more weeks."). My impression is that they are happy with what they are doing although the vast majority of the players is not happy. I think that the only way to convince them that they are wrong is to stop doing high level tournaments, but this, of course, is a personal choice. If top players (expecially on EN server: "we are mostly looking for real player behavior with the feature right now") do just 6 provinces maybe they will understand that they are not in the right direction. Just my personal opinion

And they continue contradicting themselves :
"While they are part of the costs calculations, the increase of costs caused by more or higher-leveled Ancient Wonders pales in comparison with the benefits the Ancient Wonders give. And because of that, the nett result is still a (very) positive one." = older players (with lots of AWs) should be able to have much better results as newer players.
"With our formula, we aim to create a fair playing field, and to scale the Tournaments towards player progression, so that newer players can also participate in the Tournaments in a meaningful way." = newer players should be able to do as much as older players.
This is a contradiction. So I'll ask the question : @InnoGames which one is right and which one is wrong ? What's your actual intention ? Hoping an answer from @Marindor.

 

[Deleted User - 60657]

So I don't really have to play at all, because I have nothing to improve on. No matter what stage of the game I'm in, I still have the same strength.
So you don't even have to pay. It's not really for anything. If I pay INNO, is it a donation to charity?

 

[DeletedUser3289]

If I pay INNO, is it a donation to charity?

No. You get punished for it.

 

[marcovaldo19]

So I don't really have to play at all, because I have nothing to improve on. No matter what stage of the game I'm in, I still have the same strength.
So you don't even have to pay. It's not really for anything. If I pay INNO, is it a donation to charity?

Yes and no good action will be left unpunished

 

[CrazyWizard]

And they continue contradicting themselves :
"While they are part of the costs calculations, the increase of costs caused by more or higher-leveled Ancient Wonders pales in comparison with the benefits the Ancient Wonders give. And because of that, the nett result is still a (very) positive one." = older players (with lots of AWs) should be able to have much better results as newer players.
"With our formula, we aim to create a fair playing field, and to scale the Tournaments towards player progression, so that newer players can also participate in the Tournaments in a meaningful way." = newer players should be able to do as much as older players.
This is a contradiction. So I'll ask the question : @InnoGames which one is right and which one is wrong ? What's your actual intention ? Hoping an answer from @Marindor.

Yup looks like they are saying if a player joins the game today, he can fight for the leaderboard top spots next week.
This is totally contradicting what they said before.

This indeed means it's there intention that the longer you play the less relevant you should become and the less options you schould have, there intention is to indeed punish you for having more wonderlevels beyopnd a certain point.

The whole "you gain more then you lose" was never there intention from the get go.
Why did they just no said that this was all there intention from the start?

We want you to do less point and we want new player who started 4 weeks ago to me "on par" with player that played for a long long time.
Why all this turn and twisting packaging this with deciefull wordt, just be open and frank about it. and stop using wordt you do not mean.

 

[spennyit]

Unless EN players' behaviour will change their mind, this is what all of us will face in 3 weeks :-( That's very bad news :-(

 

[slide]

I feel its very unlikely that their mind will be changed by anything said by the EN server after they pretty much ignored what has been said here on Beta. They made a few tweaks and cosmetic changes before it went to EN and I don't see anything more than that before it goes to the rest of the Live servers and then they can see the true horror of these tournaments and then it will be too late.