Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)

[CrazyWizard]

2 phoenixes are not enough for frogs to "battle almost anything" at later provinces in current tourney setup. SS ratio difference between old tourney and new is bigger than one additional phoenix.

Erestor was talking about live world and a battle on the world map on current live.
the difference between 0, 1 or 2 phoenixes is more than significant.

Thats the only point I wanted to make, as he said "he thought 1 phoenix" would be enough as well.

 

[Lovec Krys]

@spennyit Nobody has infinite inventory of tree buildings. And second Fire Phoenix is own only by players who used diamonds in the event (unlike the bears, where it was possible to get more than one without using diamonds)
@Anec That's actualy not entirely true, you could do it, but almost no one could do it every tournament in the long turn (limited income of time instants - once you regularly start using much more then your income is, sooner or later you get to zero).

 

[Karvest]

Erestor was talking about live world and a battle on the world map on current live.
the difference between 0, 1 or 2 phoenixes is more than significant.

Thats the only point I wanted to make, as he said "he thought 1 phoenix" would be enough as well.

I don't say that difference is not significant, just at some point SS difference become that big that frogs start having same issue as mortars a bit earlier.

 

[slide]

Ok, the world is divided in 2:
- they who have 2+ Fire Phoenixes, 2+ Brown Bears, infinite inventory of "tree buildings" ... A very small minority, I suppose
- normal players. Probably the vast majority

I hope to hear some normal player comment about the new tournament since my small 1st chapter beta village doesn't allow me to get if a real nerfing is happening. What about province 10 differences? province 20? province 30? That would be enough.

Not sure if I would count as a normal player. I'm in ch15, I don't have a fire phoenix, I have 1 brown bear which is now utterly useless as I have just 2 x 5% supply windfalls and I have 43 x 5hr time boosts, plus however many 2hr and 1hr. I also don't have a DA, I've opened 20 provinces and got them all to 2* and the first 9 to 4* so far.

I had 2 expiring boosts before the start of the tournament and got another 2 this week. I'm going to just do the 3 provinces which give kp in a minute and then that's me done for the week.

I didn't use any boosts as I'm away this weekend and its a waste so I'll use them next week, I'm awash with goods which I can't use because of the demands on mana, orcs, gold and supplies and I have plenty of troops which now can't kill province 21 for 1*.

I'm not a casual player as I'm logging every 3hrs in the daytime, but I'm also not a fighter, I've been playing Elvenar since release before we had tournaments, I lose more troops with manual fighting than I do with auto unless there's only 1 or 2 enemy squads.

A lot of the posts on here are all about how having 1 or 2 fire phoenix doesn't enable this or that, how about not having one at all? I'm not unique in not having one, all those newer players coming along won't have one either. A brown bear is great but it needs both windfalls and time boosts, miss out on one or the other and the benefit is lost.

The tournaments suck big time as they are now and if we think the outpouring of anger and frustration here is bad, its nothing to what will happen when it hits live if significant changes aren't made. You don't persuade people to spend money and/or time on something to penalise them later. Perhaps if Inno hadn't been thinking so hard about all the money they could make from people having the multiple phoenix or bears then they might have realised that what they're doing now with the nerfing may never have needed to happen

 

[Heymrdiedier]

In my opinion, combat has always been broken since they rebalanced it with the -defense and - damage changes. It was pretty obvious by the fact that scrolls tournaments were still pretty unwinnable even tho you used the best units there were against the enemy setup. We had pointed that out when they changed that as well, but back then inno also didn't listen. The 'make-up' solution back then was similar then the solution they are proposing now. (now = all 3 queues available at same time, then= more units became available to training by splitting them up in 3 different buildings). Their solution wasn't a real solution back then either. second promise back then was that the balancing would work out in the end, once we got all units that are available to 3 star. Also that wasn't correct in the end, for many players, getting the new version of units in the new chapters, only meant they now encountered even harder enemy setup. untill they finally reached that chapter themselves (sucked to not be endgame).

So personally i think combat needs a complete overhaul if they want to make fighting a reliable option (maybe just listen to the feedback given back then would be even enough to fix it). Rebalancing the fire phoenix and bears would make total sense if you combine them with this. In case you feel that they are overpowered.

Personally i also think inno takes the wrong approach on their rebalancings. Instead of making everything harder in order to 'balance' it for long term, you could as well choose to give better stuff each time so that the 'overpowered' buildings loose their value in time. At the moment each rebalance increases the value of the overpowered buildings. Consider it as inflation, a loan of 100K from the bank was huge 20 years ago, now its too small to do anything with it... It would make you a lot of money each time if an event gave out prizes that were a little bit better then what you gave out before, now events give you prizes that are not worth it compared to old prizes we won 2-3 years ago..

 

[Maillie]

I had a very scary idea come to mind. This disaster exploded in Beta during the elixir tournament. It is often thought that elixir is the easiest tournament to score high in. The next easiest tournament is generally considered to be steel. Steel is coming too soon. We're not going to be hit with this mess in the live cities for steel are we? Please tell me I'm wrong, it's just a nightmare and it will not happen.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I had a very scary idea come to mind. This disaster exploded in Beta during the elixir tournament. It is often thought that elixir is the easiest tournament to score high in. The next easiest tournament is generally considered to be steel. Steel is coming too soon. We're not going to be hit with this mess in the live cities for steel are we? Please tell me I'm wrong, it's just a nightmare and it will not happen.

If the testing does not take at least another month to complete, I would be very surprised.

 

[Pauly7]

is often thought that elixir is the easiest tournament to score high in. The next easiest tournament is generally considered to be steel.

Do you consider Elixir to be easier than Steel?

 

[CrazyWizard]

Do you consider Elixir to be easier than Steel?

Depends on race and where you are in the game, it's very easy for all in chapter 15+, untill that point it's easy for elves and hard for humans.

Steel is extremely easy if you play manual, you could do 600 provincies 6 rounds with your eyes closed if you would have that many unlocked and have no life at all as you combat 24/7
On auto it's not hard for both elves and humans in general.

It's the easiest tournaments for a fellowship as both elves and humans of all levels can join in without much issues.

 

[Aeva]

I am glad to be an Elf

 

[Karvest]

In current setup elves are much less in favor due to missing mages, which are much more OP than golems... especially taking expiring buildings into account

 

[Pauly7]

I have no experience of being an Elf @CrazyWizard. For me, as you say, Steel fighting could go on all day if there were enough provinces.

 

[Lovec Krys]

@Heymrdiedier Don't call for another rebalance please. You should know by now that for Inno rebalance means nerf. And right now end game players realy don't need another nerf.

 

[guivou]

in this thread plenty of high level player are sharing information , saying tournament is harder than the old one , and casual player and inno are saying it's easier : to see by myself i create an account 2 weeks ago (on liveserver i am an active player on 3 french world one 3.5k / week in tournement ,(team 10 chest with gold in spire) one 2 k (team 10 chest and silver in spire) and one 0.7 k(team 4-5 chest , bronze or silver in spire)

on beta this week , i try to do a "big" tournament because marble is my first boost : i open 5 provinces (lot for a small city just one tech unlocked in erea 3 , with no premium extension nor wonder)

my tourney stopped at the fourth round in the fifth province with an impossible fight : my squad size 34 , opponent also 34 (with 2 priest, 1 HR, 1 LR, 1 HM ) (previous fight fourth round , fourth province after on loss , i succeed with 90% lost of my fighters)

in 1 hour i train 24 LR so one loss is 14 hours of production (for one victory i loose 1 day of troupe production )

catering cost as far to high on my point of view because it requires more t2 i can produce in one day : my 3 silk factories are level 3 (max possible , not yet unlock advanced silk factory) and produce 74 + 74 + 41 / day (boost 171% : not yet silk tournament since city creation ) so total / day of t2 production is less than 600.

now catering cost :
round 3

10 k gold, 650 tools, 490 t1, 250 t2

round 4

12k gold, 1 k tools, 350 t1, 560 t2
(for the fifth province 166 T2 + 110 T1 )



asking for 1 day t2 production is far too much , should not ask for t2 so earlier ..

 

[maxiqbert]

it's easier for casual players in the sense that you can finish your tournament in very little time

 

[spennyit]

It is easier just in INNO mind :-( Definitely, as per numbers above, their proposal is out of reality as of now :-( Let's hope they greately reduce the nerf.

 

[Aeva]

It is absolutely easier for smaller and casual players, but maybe not for beginners?

 

[guivou]

in the old tournament being at 34 ss vs 34 ss was not something very difficult in many case because of the mix of adversary troops (most of the time 2 types, sometimes 3 , only scroll tournament was difficult ) but now with 4 different type you don't have any weak point

casual player perhaps find easy because, as they never play tournament they have plenty of resources to spend (need to check for them ressources spend in one round and daily production )

 

[Aeva]

That is not the case. In general for the lower levels the demands are less. I guess that is the effect of the shift from vertical to horizontal. Small cities have less provinces. In the new system they never get to the difficult ones as in the old system with every time they play it was more difficult (1 star, 2 stars etc).

 

[guivou]

demand is far less for lower level but production too , what is important is comparison between demand and production

and it's totally abnormal that a beginner fighter (ie without boost) should stop so early (equal squad size at round 4 province 5, so i guess it will be the same round 5 province 4 and round 6 province 3

i remember my start 9 month ago on khelonar , full fight on my 4 or 5 provinces were doable ... (edit : not totaly full fight, but 85% , some catering when bad configuration of enemy troops : here it's always very bad configuration)