Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)

[DeletedUser3289]

Btw, if current system leads to stagnation, Inno has to offer us something really wonderful to budge us to do c16 and to move to next chapter.
Kinda self defeatist to their nerf policy.

 

[DeletedUser3289]

If this formula works the same as the Spire formula, it adds a flat amount to your starting squad size, no matter what chapter you are in or what the squad size is currently.

An expansion adds a flat 20-28, depending on type. A level in an AW adds 6-6.5. The amount for completed research was more flexible from person to person, but the each player, the amount added was flat for the same chapter.

If you are in chapter 4 and have a starting squad size of 100, a new AW level will add about 6 to that. If you are in chapter 16 and have a starting squad size of 3000, a new AW level adds about 6 to that. And the same for all the other things that increase size.

Don’t expose yourself like that

 

[SoggyShorts]

Hmmm most of the feedback says it´s easier for a fellowship to get 10 chests

Are we reading the same feedback?

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I fail to see where i mentioned training size in that quote

It does not matter what you thought you were asking or not. If a quest in an event asks for you to produce a stack of troops, that stack will be equal to your researched squad size, as listed in the barracks. That used to not be true, though, but I do not remember in which event they made it uniform.

 

[CrazyWizard]

I'd say there shouldn't be a situation in the game where you would prefer to teleport expansion back. And it can be achieved way easier than implementing teleportation.

Why not? This potentially opens up another playstyle, where instead of maximizing your production in a given space you would put up the most efficient production in the minimal space. I know that I'd like to do something like that. I already have 4 unplaced expansions in storage, and could teleport away a few more if that would be possible.

This might be your preffered strategy and thats totally ok, but in this you are the "oddball" in this case.
The fact we are talking about returning expansions defeats the purpose of selling them for money, the gind might be "boring" but it ensures player retention untill another chapter / cash cow is introduced.

If you have a game where loggin in, or not loggin in doesn't matter anymore you just killed the game.
Talking about returning expansions back to your inventory (to store them, not to unlock a different spot) on itself is lunacy and shows perfectly how wrong this approach is, since we should not be even talking about it. we should be talking about how to improve goods production or how to improve I do not know what but thats where we should be talking about, improvements not returning to a "former game state"

I am almost amazed they did not give you a penalty for loggin in often, because loggin in often leads to a much bigger production of goods compared to someone loggin in once or twice a day, so this should be compensated. they should add a * (1+0.01L) to the formula for each production pickup in a buildingin the past 7 days.
Sounds hilarious? well to me wonders and expansions sounds to me just as ridiculous.

A general compensation between where people are in the research tree is a good thing, it's a baseline so that anyone from beginners to veterans can play the tournaments, but it should be just that, a baseline, there should be a clear path forward, the beginner should have the idea that in time he or she will improve and eventually could join the big guns if he or she desires so, people at the end of the game should not need to fear that they will be bashed around by chapter 7 accounts
No players should "fear" there decisions. but find a clear path forward to improvement.

Rewards can belanced by making each step in the tournamament incremental more difficult.
Each step should be incremental more difficult than the previous step, thats a soft cap, instead they got a system where it becomes less incremental which creates the current issue. thin and light might sound cool to you, but from a game / company perspective you dont want a skinny fish thats more bone than meat, you want big fat fishes to produce income.

 

[Deleted User - 60152]

I hate subscriptions but you can offer something like that for x days for price Y, same thing but not named like that
, but you know one fun way to make all cities unique would be to change the roof colors on residences and worshops, another skin for your armory.

Easy modifications that would allow so much more individualism in each city, and that would target the casuals and the masses and it takes 0 extra time in art design for resisdences and workshops and a little for example the alternative skin for a armory but that pays itself back easy.
and you only need to build the system once.

Many simple easy cheap things to individualise your city.

Having options to customise your avatar with a hat, glasses, hat whatever, thats how microtransactions should work.

Having one doesn't preclude the other. I've played games that had recurring monthy subscriptions - some with different subscription levels and still offered most of the stuff that was included in the subscription as purchasable.

A reasonable subscription model for INNO could be something like $30.00 a month and you get something like 2000 diamonds, 10 RR spells. 5 each of the troop instants, 30 hours of time instants each month.

 

[Jaxom]

Hmmm most of the feedback says it´s easier for a fellowship to get 10 chests, when it´s easier for small players to get more points. So your concern seems misplaced.

Addressing his comment on my concern that the changes hurt casual fellowships.

If all 25 members get 1600 points then you complete 10 chests. That can be done by doing 6 rounds on the first 6 provinces.
But even doing just that much takes you out of the 'green zone'. There are less than 20 encounters that they feel 'anyone can do'.

6x6 or 8x5 goes well off the green, Top players will still need to do extra to reach the goal and this is becoming far far harder to achieve.

We still seem to obsess with how the changes affect the top players and fellowships. I fear for the players who try the new system once and lose all their troops or goods. The fellowship falls short of their goal, the players complain and they never try again.

I do think that the top players in a fellowship should be bearing the load and leading the way to meet goals. But the changes make that far harder.

There are fellowships that have new players in them, that have mostly 'casual' players in them. These may be forced out of doing their 10-chest pushes. Especially if you remove the ability to plan for a tournament. To focus on certain enemy troops. To focus on gathering certain goods.

 

[Aeva]

I fail to see why every fellowship has to be able to achieve 10 chests @Jaxom

 

[Pauly7]

If all 25 members get 1600 points then you complete 10 chests. That can be done by doing 6 rounds on the first 6 provinces.
But even doing just that much takes you out of the 'green zone'. There are less than 20 encounters that they feel 'anyone can do'.

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but in my chapter 4 beta city I did 6 rounds of 7 provinces plus 3 rounds of the 8th province. I didn't use any boosters, didn't lose a fight and didn't particularly take many troop losses... So I'm not sure Inno's heat map graphic is always entirely logical.

 

[Burger Meister Meister]

You counter yourself. Expansions lead to ranking points (directly or indirectly-culture) AWs also contribute ranking points

Maybe I am getting confused but my impression based on the comments was that under the new system expansions and AWs were being doubly counted by both direct and indirect (via ranking) influences. My comment was that only the indirect influence via ranking should be included.

Did I get this wrong?
As I said can someone explain how the algorithm works.

Thanks

 

[Karvest]

ranking has no effect on costs now

 

[DeletedUser2586]

Hello all !

First of all sorry for my disastrous English.

I am a beta chapter 13 player (end amuni), and I also play on 3 other worlds (aren and wyn chapter 15 and khelo chapter 5).

On beta, I'm part of a brotherhood that opens chest 10 on average every other week.

Here is what I think about this first week of testing.

The positive points :
_ The speed of making a single meeting or negotiation instead of 4 !!! Great !

The negative points :
_ the costs requested very quickly by moving in the provinces whether in troops or in negotiations = this will increase the frustration of the players
_ the difficulty of getting as many provinces as before = this will increase players' frustration
_ the totally random side of the enemy troops = the strategy side disappears completely

The increase in player frustration will simply end the game.

What is the point of advancing a city in order to end up feeling "worse" at a high level than what we were at the start?

I don't understand, after reading these 30 pages (and other topics), why include the number of expansions, the level of wonders, etc. in the difficulty calculation.

Inno has created a "squad size" technology which should be the only one fixing the difficulty.
This difficulty should even be based only on the mandatory "squad sizes". Optional technologies allow more Allied troops to be deployed without increasing enemy troops. Thus making the options really favorable and advantageous.
Just like the wonders which should only offer advantages in order to develop your city with a minimum of strategy.
If a player at a high level wonder is all the better for him, it is because he has taken the time to develop it and he should only receive the benefits.

I don’t appreciate the feeling of being "fooled" by inno with this new version of the tournament. I tell myself that after having spent more than two years on this game, building a city knowingly of an already established system, having made choices of evolution and specific building construction, such a change risks demotivate me and just get arrested.

Anyway, with the exception of the fast side which is new, I don't see anything good about it ... and I prefer to keep the 4 fight version at the risk of spending more time there.

Good game everyone.
Shlaag

 

[Burger Meister Meister]

Zero, battle difficulty is set for every province exactly like in old system for every single player for every single chapter.
Battle difficulty is ratio between your SS and enemy SS and introducing 2* and 3* into provinces.

Now I am really confused, I thought that Inno removed the SS factor from the battle difficulty as per their comment

" To achieve this, we will rework the way the costs in Tournaments are calculated. Up until now, they were directly linked to your Squad Size, meaning that any Squad Size Upgrade technology, both the mandatory and optional ones, would result in higher costs. This will be abolished and instead we will base the costs on a series of progression factors, which involve city development and researches in general. "

Am I misinterpreting this statement?

Thanks

 

[maxiqbert]

Now I am really confused, I thought that Inno removed the SS factor from the battle difficulty as per their comment

" To achieve this, we will rework the way the costs in Tournaments are calculated. Up until now, they were directly linked to your Squad Size, meaning that any Squad Size Upgrade technology, both the mandatory and optional ones, would result in higher costs. This will be abolished and instead we will base the costs on a series of progression factors, which involve city development and researches in general. "

Am I misinterpreting this statement?

Thanks

I think you are misinterpreting dony's statement
you have a squad size for each tournament encounter, and your enemy also has a squad size
those squad sizes have no (at least not direct) link to your "exploration squad size" nor to your "training squad size"

 

[Jaxom]

I fail to see why every fellowship has to be able to achieve 10 chests @Jaxom

It isn't a question of every fellowship doing 10 chests. But there are fellowships which try for 10 chests once or twice each cycle. It is a team oriented activity to help build the group. This idea has existed for as long as tournaments have. Casual players can build up troops and goods over several weeks time to use in these team events. If we lose this then we lose what has been a fun part of the game for many fellowships.

You are certainly right that not every fellowship could do 10 chests even now. I have had players quit my fellowships because asking them to do extra on tournaments once a month was too much for them. Nice people but no big loss.

And I have had players who leave who want to do more. They find appropriate fellowships. I just wish that tournaments will continue to appeal to more than just the most active players.

 

[Jaxom]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but in my chapter 4 beta city I did 6 rounds of 7 provinces plus 3 rounds of the 8th province. I didn't use any boosters, didn't lose a fight and didn't particularly take many troop losses... So I'm not sure Inno's heat map graphic is always entirely logical.

Good point. And I did over 3500 points in Chapter 16 without unreasonable losses or any catering. But I am pretty sure that we both know how to fight against almost any combination that is put out there.

It has proved to not be easy for beginners to learn how to fight effectively. With the old system you could at least coach players on how to face the enemies in specific tournaments. Some tournaments were easier so experienced players helped new ones learn to fight on those.

Those graphics may indeed be off. If so I'd like to see some correct ones.

 

[T6583]

Just putting in my 2 cents, some players, myself included in this, like to get through the chapters quickly and then sit and work on AW's and other upgrades to their cities. Or just relax with the number of different events we have. Some of those players don't go crazy in the tournaments either to get KP or at least in my case I never went crazy until until I was in Chapter 16 in my Live city and the ridiculous amount of KP needed. I went from a tourney of avaerage of slightly over 2K to now over 6500 in the past 3 months or so just to get through the chapter. I'm seeing the other players in both my FS and a few other FS also suddenly start to jump up their tourney scores by going after the massive amounts of KP to feel like they're making progress in the tech tree. While the large amounts of KP might have intended to slow people down I think it frustrated alot of players as well as the production on the guest race goods but that's a whole nother topic. I definitely made my frustrations with Chapter 16 known on my Live forum. Anyway I think that Inno's attempt at trying to slow players down just resulted in creating another problem. And since the bears and phoenixes are such game changers than offer them to all players who currently don't have them AND give them a way to evolve them MORE READILY so they can compete with those that have them. I don't have to go into how artifacts from past events have been offered in the past either. There's already been plenty of discussion on that.

 

[DeletedUser3314]

Now I am really confused, I thought that Inno removed the SS factor from the battle difficulty as per their comment

" To achieve this, we will rework the way the costs in Tournaments are calculated. Up until now, they were directly linked to your Squad Size, meaning that any Squad Size Upgrade technology, both the mandatory and optional ones, would result in higher costs. This will be abolished and instead we will base the costs on a series of progression factors, which involve city development and researches in general. "

Am I misinterpreting this statement?

Thanks

The SS factor isn't removed entirely, it's now part of the mandatory technology upgrades in the new formula so they are still counted but their impact is less because of the many other mandatory technology upgrades.

 

[palmira]

And new tournament and absolutely no changes. I have been taking notice and my SS increases 950 units per province. This is what I get by province 6, 7 and 8, first round

 

[edeba]

That's definitely Mercedes-Benz pricing, and in return is junk yard delivery.

this past month I spent $1000,00 on expansions, a massive nerf for me

Good analogy of the stupidity of what they did. Certainly playing your given resources better simply by logging in regularly and attending them gives an advantage much the same as leveling and AW or buying a premium expansion.

This is 100% a bait and switch, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch.

I am almost amazed they did not give you a penalty for loggin in often, because loggin in often leads to a much bigger production of goods compared to someone loggin in once or twice a day, so this should be compensated. they should add a * (1+0.01L) to the formula for each production pickup in a buildingin the past 7 days.
Sounds hilarious? well to me wonders and expansions sounds to me just as ridiculous.