• Dear forum reader,

    To actively participate on the forum by joining discussions or starting your own threads or topics, you need a game account and to REGISTER HERE!

Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)

UlyssesBlue

Well-Known Member
Actually, the new setup should make sure that with a full Fellowship you can reach 10th chest with 1600 Points per player, which comes down to about 6 provinces on 6 rounds, which should not be too hard. Is your experience different at this point?
Yes, actually. 6 provinces at 6 stars assumes people have the time to do 6 stars. With the time that the tournament runs, and the cooldown time between provinces, and in some cases also timezone differences, 6 stars can only be achieved by people who go to extreme lengths like setting alarm clocks to get up at just the right time to do provinces as soon as they become available. That or they have some high level boosts, or tons of time instants they can spend. For those who can't make these sort of investments/sacrifices a far more reasonable option is to do 11 provinces to 4 star. This was not unreasonable under the old system (aside from the endless clicking) but under the new system this is quite expensive due to the costs ramping up too quickly.
 

galrond

Well-Known Member
Well everything is "not hard", when you use boosters and diamonds. It´s like saying traveling 40 km is easy, when you have a car. If you have to walk it´s quite another story. It´s doable, but ain´t something "you just do".
When I first read that "in old setup" difficulty was the same in all round 1 provinces, I thought "have they ever played the game!". In the early provinces you fight one- and two star enemies, which is far easier than fighting 3 star enemies..... Then I remembered the one time I went to province 32, and yes the % of lost troops didn´t change as I vent along (only the number of lost troops evolved, and surpassed my production capacity).

I can see severel ppl directly linking how far you get in the tournament to the chapter you´re in. I must admit, that if anything it´s become harder to score "high" in the tournament. But I don´t have a fire-phoenix, and don´t use boosters. I have leveled my martial monestary (and a few other military AW), but it doesn´t compensate the increased difficulty. I can still fight and win most encounters, but with big losses. It´s harder to produce enough troops, and produceing enough goods to cater is almost impossible. Luckyly you don´t need that much goods to do anything else.

Maybe I´m doing it wrong, but kp are not what "slows me down" in the tech tree. Sentient goods and guest race goods do. But ofc. that can change in the latest two chapters.........

A unrelated sugestion: why don´t you make giving neighbourly help, as easy via worldmap as via roster/mail. It´s good, that you made it so easy via roster/mail, but why not go the full way ;)
 

Maillie

Well-Known Member
There has been a need to fix the amount of KP we get in the tourney since it began. Why is it fair to gain hundreds of KP for some but not for others?
Why is it not fair that the ones that purchased expansions, built and worked on AW's over the years, learned to fight, and been playing for four years to not be able to do more than someone that walked in the door 2 months ago? Why should we get our "paycheck" cut to minimum wage because we made more than the teenager with his first job? My ability to pull the fellowship over the 10 chest mark with 57 provinces finished should be a goal for the newer players to achieve. We ALL benefited from my longevity, determination, and hard work, not just me.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
ize 5000
4 meetings

1. bad combination of troops, loss of 50%
2. good combination of troops, loss 0%
3. medium combination troops, loss 30%
4. good combination of troops, loss of 2%
total loss 4100
Size 5000 * 4 = 20000
1. meeting

1. random combination of troops, loss 50%
total loss 10000
That's not how averages work.
1. meeting should be
50%+0%+30%+2% = 82%
82/ 4 = 20.5% average losses
20.5% x 20,000 = 4,100 exactly the same losses
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Actually, the new setup should make sure that with a full Fellowship you can reach 10th chest with 1600 Points per player, which comes down to about 6 provinces on 6 rounds, which should not be too hard. Is your experience different at this point?
1. It's way harder to get players to log in 6 times in 5 days for the tournament than to get them to log in 2 or 3 times.
That pretty much removes "casual" fellowships from achieving anywhere near what they used to.
2. Also, pet food buffs last 24h which you'd now need 3 of if you don't have a leveled timewarp.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
leveled timewarp and/or polar bears are the only things that can give fighter a chance (need a good luck to get proper recipes in MA as well) to go past 5-6k points regularly with new mechanics.
 

TomatoeHu

Well-Known Member
Actually, the new setup should make sure that with a full Fellowship you can reach 10th chest with 1600 Points per player, which comes down to about 6 provinces on 6 rounds, which should not be too hard. Is your experience different at this point?

Just want to point out there are many players who can not be awake to complete 6 round tournaments. nor is it fun or flexible, they don't line up very well with real life sleep schedules. Used to be doing your 1600 points took 2 days going deep ( 25 provinces x 2 rounds ) Now to be a good player you must be online everyday 16 hrs apart to be able to help? That's a ridiculous requirement, the flexibility of doing a further range was very necessary, even 15 provinces x 3 was better than attempting 6 rounds. Players don't usually want to set an alarm to make the tournament on time, alarms and games kinda don't sound like fun anymore when you start scheduling them, gross. needing only 2 rounds allowed busier weeks to have tournaments spread out and still help my team. I cant imagine an entire continent is expected to be waking up on the middle of the night to complete their rounds to make something that is possible in Europe, possible in Canada..... how about fixing that level of difficulty ? We know that its possible to release content on servers at different times, why are tournaments coming to North America is the middle of the day? Totally screwed up and not fair.
 

Maillie

Well-Known Member
One of the downfalls of this new tournament setup is that the fellowships that depended on a scant few players being able to go far above and beyond 20 provinces to get the blueprints are the fellowships that do purchase buildings that need blueprints. I have two cities in fellowships that have never come close to finishing 10 chests. I have never purchased a building in either.

This is a bad idea, and where I live it's called "Don't shoot yourself in the foot." This means don't do something that will hurt you in the long run.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Just want to point out there are many players who can not be awake to complete 6 round tournaments. nor is it fun or flexible, they don't line up very well with real life sleep schedules. Used to be doing your 1600 points took 2 days going deep ( 25 provinces x 2 rounds ) Now to be a good player you must be online everyday 16 hrs apart to be able to help? That's a ridiculous requirement, the flexibility of doing a further range was very necessary, even 15 provinces x 3 was better than attempting 6 rounds. Players don't usually want to set an alarm to make the tournament on time, alarms and games kinda don't sound like fun anymore when you start scheduling them, gross. needing only 2 rounds allowed busier weeks to have tournaments spread out and still help my team. I cant imagine an entire continent is expected to be waking up on the middle of the night to complete their rounds to make something that is possible in Europe, possible in Canada..... how about fixing that level of difficulty ? We know that its possible to release content on servers at different times, why are tournaments coming to North America is the middle of the day? Totally screwed up and not fair.

Things generally get released at two different times in my time zone in the Eastern US. Tournament time and event time. Events normally start at either 5 or 6AM, depending on if it is DST or not. The 1PM/2PM tournament start time is much better and I wish everything started at that time. I know the Spire has it's own odd start time too, but I am not normally awake at the time it starts on Sunday mornings, so I don't even know the exact hour for my time zone.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
One of the downfalls of this new tournament setup is that the fellowships that depended on a scant few players being able to go far above and beyond
Mmhmm. 25 players doing 6 provinces 6 times is totally unrealistic for 99% of fellowships
5 players doing 10 x2
5 players doing 10 x 4
5 players doing 15 x4
5 players doing 20 x2
5 players doing significantly more
used to be a more normal Fellowship success formula that allowed at least a bit for real-life schedules.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
For players who do not have the time for 6 stars: 1620 points equals 5 stars in each of the 1st 6 provinces for 210 points each, 4 stars in province 7 for 156 points, 3 stars in province 8 for 108 points, 2 stars in province 9 for 66 points, and 1 star in province 10 for 30 points.

This fits the new difficulty scaling and only in the final few fights will the enemy have a higher squad size.
 

Deleted User - 86438

Guest
For players who do not have the time for 6 stars: 1620 points equals 5 stars in each of the 1st 6 provinces for 210 points each, 4 stars in province 7 for 156 points, 3 stars in province 8 for 108 points, 2 stars in province 9 for 66 points, and 1 star in province 10 for 30 points.
Or add one extra round on those bottom provinces (5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4, 3, 2) to make it an even 1800 points and get an extra 20 KP for your troubles while still keeping the max difficulty to between the old method 3 and 4-star ratio.

And for players with time to only do 4 rounds... First 9 to 4 star, then 3, 2, 1 results in 1608 points with a max enemy ratio of 125%, still below the old method 4-star.
 

meggi12

Member
Diamonds?

Or here is a new minmax (c) metagame strategy that this change will promote:

- Can't get meaningful amounts of KPs with your advanced, developed city because difficulty ramp up is too high for going deep?
- But they - allegedly - made things even easier for small cities? Cheap catering, easy fighting, fast (few clicks)? All this for going wide?
- So, if you make a whole bunch of extra small cities
- Develop them to chapter 2-4
- Unlock a few provinces to, say 6+ provinces for each tournament
- For bonus points, put them all in a separate FS to rake extra team rewards
- ???
- Profit!

You know how this story goes. I predict a lot more of this strategy being deployed in the near future.
Thats exactly kind of game I do not want to play Max , one should be able to advance with one city only without having to find a ways to go around it.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
At the moment they do indeed have a minor impact, though less than province and research expansions, yes. However, as said: We're forwarding all the feedback for consideration, so changes might always be possible if that turns out to be necessary. I don't have any specific info on that yet.
Oh realy? Minor impact? The same minor impact as the AW's levels?
Well, mayby then you could explain me why this minor impact in expansions & AW levels does already 76% difference in the Spire costs between my beta city and my live city (both in Embassies, beta max. 10 researches behind live)?

I will tell you: Because they multiply and create an exponencial effect. And the whole formula is wrong in the core for this exact reason. And you will see it to have major impact with each next chapters on increasing number of end game players (because of the exponencial impact with each new research, expansion & AW levels multiplying each other).

And now we get the same (or very similar) formula in tournaments as well.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Or add one extra round on those bottom provinces (5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4, 3, 2) to make it an even 1800 points and get an extra 20 KP for your troubles while still keeping the max difficulty to between the old method 3 and 4-star ratio.

And for players with time to only do 4 rounds... First 9 to 4 star, then 3, 2, 1 results in 1608 points with a max enemy ratio of 125%, still below the old method 4-star.

That too. Years ago, it somehow got stuck in my head that it was either 1620 or 1670, and not 1600, that every member of a 25-player fellowship had to score to equal the 40k points for 10 chests, so I still look at what it takes for the wrong number. lol

Now, if a fellowship has even 5 members with bear or AW to reduce cooldown, or just time it right, and those 5 do all six stars in the first 5 provinces also, that is another 300 per player, so another 1500 points from just those five. That is almost enough to make up for one missing member or a couple others who under perform. And 10-1 is the same as 5-6 for squad differences, or the same as the 3rd star under the old system.

Or if we use your suggestion that gives 1800 points and players with bear or AW do the 6th star of the first 5 for another 300, that is 2100 points. If you even have just 10 members who can do that, you have 21000 points, meaning the other 15 members only have to average a little under 1300 each to make the 40k needed. That sounds very achievable for fellowships whose members only care about the 10 chests and are fairly even in points per member.

However, it is those fellowships that do not score evenly that are going to be screwed by this. I think someone else said this is going to break up fellowships or get the laggards kicked out when the high scorers can no longer carry the fellowship and I agree with that now. When those of us who used to be able to score anywhere from 4k to 10k, or more, can no longer do that, it is going to be painful for a lot of the more casual players in current 10-chest fellowships, if those players cannot up their scores to make up for the losses from the other members.
 

DeletedUser3314

Guest
Round 3, old system, province 1 & 2 same catering cost. New system another ~28.5% increase between province 1 & 2.

So to sum it up so far:
Round 1, new system 100% increase between province 1 & 2
Round 2, new system 55.5% increase
Round 3, new system 28.5% increase
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Oh realy? Minor impact? The same minor impact as the AW's levels?
Well, mayby then you could explain me why this minor impact in expansions & AW levels does already 76% difference in the Spire costs between my beta city and my live city (both in Embassies, beta max. 10 researches behind live)?

I will tell you: Because they multiply and create an exponencial effect. And the whole formula is wrong in the core for this exact reason. And you will see it to have major impact with each next chapters on increasing number of end game players (because of the exponencial impact with each new research, expansion & AW levels multiplying each other).

And now we get the same (or very similar) formula in tournaments as well.

What is the difference in AW levels between your two cities?

I don't know what value they assigned to them for the tournament, but expansions for the Spire add either 20 or 28 troops to your starting squad size, depending on the type. And an AW level adds about 6.5 troops for the Spire. Say you are in chapter 15 or 16, you would add three expansions between scouting and research, plus any premium you might buy, but during the course of the chapter, how many AW levels would you add? 20? 30? 40? Maybe you add 2 AW levels per week and it takes you 4 months/16 weeks to finish the chapter. That is 32 more AW levels or around 200 more troops added to your starting Spire squad. Those three expansions are adding a lot less. And a premium expansion is equal to about 4 AW levels for squad increase. But like I said, they could have easily changed the values for the tournament and none of these numbers would work.
 

Skillpowers

Well-Known Member
Actually, the new setup should make sure that with a full Fellowship you can reach 10th chest with 1600 Points per player, which comes down to about 6 provinces on 6 rounds, which should not be too hard. Is your experience different at this point?
thats only when all players do the tournement. with the current setup in the live world top players can gather more points so the lower ones can save up some suplies.
 
Top