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Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)

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guivou

Well-Known Member
not easy when you encounter 1 knight, 2 orc strategist, 1 dryad (or mist walker ?), 1 enchantress (all 2*) when you have only 1* troups , with same squad size (province 7 round 2)
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
not easy when you encounter 1 knight, 2 orc strategist, 1 dryad, 1 enchantress (all 2*) when you have only 1* , with same squad size (province 7 round 2)

If you are human, your mages could win that, or maybe 4 mages and one mortar to kill the dryad. If you are an elf, maybe a mix of light ranged and heavy melee?
 

Arthus

Well-Known Member
i wonder what their next move is. Instead of fixing the core issue we have with these changes, they keep adding suggestions we asked years ago, and are slightly related.
I bet the next change is, being able to rotate all your buildings...

This will never happen, they explained why. All buildings are "empty shells" on the other side. They don't have other side.
 

PaNonymeB

Well-Known Member
About the "We reduced the impact of regular and premium Expansions in the difficulty calculations for Tournaments and the Spire of Eternity. Premium Expansions have had their impact reduced even more than regular expansions." change :
Collecting data from several cities, @MinMax Gamer found out that base Spire squad size (which is base of difficulty calculation for Spire and Tournament) is well approximated by (B is highest relic boost, T number of mandatory techs researched, A number of AW levels, E number of expansions (includes premium) and P number of premium expansions.)
R = 0.3994 × (1+B) × (1.0045)^T × (1+0.003A) × (E - 0.34P - 4.5), while before this change it was
R = 0.44675 × (1+B) × (1.0042)^T × (1+0.003A) × (E - 0.25P - 4).
Even if the formula isn't correct, what we see is that the cities that see the highest decrease in difficulty in Tournament/Spire from this change are indeed cities with the most premium expansions, but also cities with lower chapter (and thus generally lower number of regular expansions.) End-game cities can even have an increase of Spire/Tournament difficulty with the changes if they have a low number of premium expansions.
But, that's not what we should expect from a reduction of the impact of expansions. Such a reduction should mostly benefit end-game cities with lots of expansions. Instead, they increased the impact of techs, which further increases the difficulty gap between end-game cities and new cities. (The formulas above would even say the impact of regular expansions (in terms of % increase of Spire/Tournament costs) has slightly increased, as it's now adding 1 to a lower number. But we're not 100% sure this is correct.)
Disclaimer : I'm not @MinMax Gamer and thus don't have access to all the actual data used to find this formula. However, data from my cities over two weeks (on live) confirms all what I said above.
 

LOKINHO

Well-Known Member
I don't know if we've been a month after the big change in tournaments ... well, my conclusion is as follows:
I'm in chapter 10, wizards and dragons, just started, just 3 investigations done, I had 40,000 orcs before this stupid change, and as I said, my conclusion is that I have run out of orcs !!!!
In the tower, there are times that of the 4 battles there are, they ask me for orcs in 3 chests !!! And it is not that the amounts are low, THEY ARE TOO HIGH !! If to that, we add the stupidity / idiocy of adding the orcs to trade in tournaments (I always trade in everything) GAME OVER.

Game over for me. I am not going to modify my city by filling it with TOTALLY UNNECESSARY arsenals, or to put more orc nests to survive in a game because of a shitty change that you have made without taking into account that the number of orcs produced per day IS A MISERY !! However, both in the tower and in the tournament, they ask for disproportionate amounts and at least even in the tower, I would say that in more than 50% of the negotiations, THEY DEMAND ORCS!
Thanks INNO for fucking my game.

I've been contributing ideas, giving suggestions and actively reading everything that players have / have said for a month ... and you haven't done ANYTHING! To such an extent, that as I said, I spent my resources on orcs, and now ?? than?? I do not participate in a tournament or tower? Do I leave my brotherhood or do they kick me out? I quit the game and quit? I think you have had enough time to realize this VERY SERIOUS ERROR OF DECOMPENSATION AND IMBALANCE, I myself have messages saying it here, I do not understand shit and to be bad or displeased, I prefer to leave, I would say a pleasure, or a lot of pleasure, but leaving like this, it sucks!

Sorry for the vocabulary but the anger I have exceeds my educational patience, and as they say, every "act" carries consequences ... well there you have them.
A disappointed player.
 

clusseau

Member
Yes, it seems the root of this FARCE is in multiplying factors.
I trust that INNO is staffed by honorable and intelligent people.... Friendly folks, who bear no malice toward their customers!
Yet... this important decision has been left to the Only Person on the face of the Earth who could possibly think this is a Good Idea??

A different formula would be needed, to use Additive Factors, but so much simpler, so much more fair.
And, the relative weight of each could easily be tweaked, to find correct balance, and to prevent people being penalized for achievements.

next thing.
. Now, we can run troop buildings concurrently!
For many players, this effectively makes each day 72hrs! (3x24hr). For players with Bears... yes, each day is still "72hrs". But they're no longer able to save Collections- Then feed a Bear once every 2-3 days, and then Bonus All Collections. . Details Matter, but as a general statement, the value of having a Brown Bear has been cut in Half. -- Does this HELP the little guy, -or does it just take out some players at the Knees?

And.... (REALLY??) ... Facing (nearly) unbeatable enemies, battle after battle.....
We Still cant bring MORE TROOPS to the battle (and Win?)... but Now we'll be able to fight it Twice?
(I Guess.... Seems Inno Employee in First Paragraph now has someone to eat lunch with?)
 
Last edited:

GrayEyes

Member
About the "We reduced the impact of regular and premium Expansions in the difficulty calculations for Tournaments and the Spire of Eternity. Premium Expansions have had their impact reduced even more than regular expansions." change :
Collecting data from several cities, @MinMax Gamer found out that base Spire squad size (which is base of difficulty calculation for Spire and Tournament) is well approximated by (B is highest relic boost, T number of mandatory techs researched, A number of AW levels, E number of expansions (includes premium) and P number of premium expansions.)
R = 0.3994 × (1+B) × (1.0045)^T × (1+0.003A) × (E - 0.34P - 4.5), while before this change it was
R = 0.44675 × (1+B) × (1.0042)^T × (1+0.003A) × (E - 0.25P - 4).
Even if the formula isn't correct, what we see is that the cities that see the highest decrease in difficulty in Tournament/Spire from this change are indeed cities with the most premium expansions, but also cities with lower chapter (and thus generally lower number of regular expansions.) End-game cities can even have an increase of Spire/Tournament difficulty with the changes if they have a low number of premium expansions.
But, that's not what we should expect from a reduction of the impact of expansions. Such a reduction should mostly benefit end-game cities with lots of expansions. Instead, they increased the impact of techs, which further increases the difficulty gap between end-game cities and new cities. (The formulas above would even say the impact of regular expansions (in terms of % increase of Spire/Tournament costs) has slightly increased, as it's now adding 1 to a lower number. But we're not 100% sure this is correct.)
Disclaimer : I'm not @MinMax Gamer and thus don't have access to all the actual data used to find this formula. However, data from my cities over two weeks (on live) confirms all what I said above.
My spire before release notes
Ekran Resmi 2020-08-21 14.50.56.png
After release notes
Ekran Resmi 2020-08-28 18.45.31.png
Nothing changed
İ have all premium expansions
Ekran Resmi 2020-09-03 04.01.02.png
Thanks Elvenar.
 

DeletedUser1953

Guest
Yes the change of the weight of premium is totally ridiculous, we hope they remove the weight (thus this will reduce the cost for premium players) and finally for most player, it does not change anything ^^ (i think they increase the problem of the exponential component !).
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
My spire before release notes
View attachment 7879
After release notes
View attachment 7878
Nothing changed
İ have all premium expansions
View attachment 7880
Thanks Elvenar.
how do you mean nothing changed? is the one picture from last week and the other one from this week? because you realise that your difficulty is set at the start of the spire (and new tournament) and anything you do within that week doesnt impact it, untill the next week. right?
 

palmira

Well-Known Member
I was just making some simulations with MinMax spreadsheet and the weight of the premium expansions is staggering for all the end gamers. Two players with all mandatory research done, same AW levels, i used 400 in both, the player with all premium expansions has a SS roughly 50% bigger than one with no premium expansions. So premium expansions have a huge impact in the tournament
 

spennyit

Well-Known Member
this is about 1,5% for each premium exp, if it is linear. How many players have more than 10-15 premium? This does not imply that their formula is acceptable :cool:
 

marcovaldo19

Well-Known Member
I'd ask for a nice change. If I battle and loose, next time only survived enemies should be present, so to give me the possibility to win the second encounter. this change should affect also the spire
I'm saying that it is not acceptable that at certain point you simply can't win a battle and are obliged to cater. There should always be a 'battle solution' available, and with the growth of the enemies it is unfair that, when we loose, all of the enemies survive. to be fair or the dead enemies remain dead on subsequent attempts, or also our trops, in case of victory, should all recover.
 

GrayEyes

Member
how do you mean nothing changed? is the one picture from last week and the other one from this week? because you realise that your difficulty is set at the start of the spire (and new tournament) and anything you do within that week doesnt impact it, untill the next week. right?
Yes I know. 2. image belongs to the next spire week.
 
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