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Discussion The Masquerade

DeletedUser1075

Guest
lol. Marindor, you can't put up a tidbit like that and not expect people to respond to it. Cat's out of the bag now. I'll try to withhold judgement (or questions) until more is posted - but you haven't given me a single reason to think this will be a good change.

Given the extreme fail of the way the Magic Academy was rolled out, I would suggest that this change - significant as it is - be handled with a lot more explanation of how it is going to change game play for the better. I still dislike the MA even though I'm using it now. The 2 additional barracks-type buildings are also perceived as useless by many of the (both) newer and more experienced players. So there isn't a lot of goodwill here for a change that very few will like and that will require significant changes to the play style of your most active and involved players.

So far as this event goes, thank you for pushing back on the devs to make the changes. I really do hope that the unboosted manu requirement is explained before Part 2 though.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
@calenmir
To be fair, you have enough room to build a level 1 residence, marble, steel, and lamp post for a day or 2 (at least on Beta), and while I don't like the hint at a fundamental shift in how the game is best played, having 2 extra tiny buildings isn't a great hardship.

I'm still worried about trying to tell players "Go boosted only (except for 1 level 1 of each)"
 

Calenmir

Well-Known Member
@calenmir
To be fair, you have enough room to build a level 1 residence, marble, steel, and lamp post for a day or 2 (at least on Beta), and while I don't like the hint at a fundamental shift in how the game is best played, having 2 extra tiny buildings isn't a great hardship.

I'm still worried about trying to tell players "Go boosted only (except for 1 level 1 of each)"
I know it appears that way because I've placed buildings in certain places with space around them. Now that I've put down my expansions, as soon as I fill in all needed KP, my Dwarf portal will go in. Then the tracks. Then the granite, etc. That space is all accounted for and shifting of buildings will start. Further, the space between the buildings was deliberately put in so when they change shape, and they will, I wouldn't need to be reshifting my city and scrambling for space. Now it seems I will be even though I've planned it out already. So no, I really don't have the space. The buildings I have are necessary. The nonboost aren't.

ETA: And if I'm going to put the space to use on something, I'd rather it be an AW. Which I've not yet been able to put up.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Right, but a level 1 marble and a level 1 steel take up 6 squares total, that is the same as a single granite or copper mine, and it's only for a day, maybe 2. It will likely take you longer than that to place your portal, tracks and fill the rest with mines. Assuming you have set aside space for copper mines, that area should be available for use while you build up your granite in order to even make a copper mine.
 

cpickett76

Active Member
This does make it easier, but still doesn't address the main issue-- we spend a lot of time and effort explaining boosted goods to new players, and even having to build just one non-boosted factory flies in the face of that lesson.

Please change it to a "gain xxxxx non-boosted goods" quest. This will promote trading which is a good thing!


YES! In addition you're often dealing with someone who is afraid they won't be able to get what they need through trade alone and adding these kinds of quests make them cling to this even harder because to them it looks like nonboosts are needed after all. I'm going though this right now in one of my FS because of this event list. Please replace it with the usual gain goods quest.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
While I'd rather not derail this thread, I have yet to come across a good enough reason why I shouldn't have non boosted factories. I see here a lot of complaints about the pay x goods quest, if everyone has had issues with it, that it was too much, then why is boosted only better than having a few non boosted that could have helped as well?

It just seems that boosted only kingdoms are trying to do way too much with 3 factories (ie trading for 6 factories that they don't have). I couldn't complete the quest because of where I am in the game, and that's just starting research level 3. I haven't had much need for anything just yet and will put in more boosted factories than non boosted and still can trade when needed.

For me, I change when the game changes, not because someone has told me something is better. Better for who is the question.
 

Deleted User - 60107

Guest
While I'd rather not derail this thread, I have yet to come across a good enough reason why I shouldn't have non boosted factories.
3 boosted factories produce more than 6 unboosted (especially once you have max boost), take less space, need less population, and require less Coins and Supplies for producing goods. Is that not good enough reason?

Without spoiling too much already about it: The next big upcoming thing I told you about, will probably make you want to change that strategy a bit as well. It won't be absolutely necessary but it would help you if you built just 1 low level manufactory of your non-boosted goods. Please let's wait with feedback on that until we can tell you more about it so we won't confuse this feedback thread with that. :)
Is that "a single low-level unboosted manufactory", or is it "1 of EACH non-boosted manufactory"? Since you said "non-boosted goods" - plural, so more than 1 non-boosted good.

P.S.: If you didn't want to derail this thread you really shouldn't have written that. You can't just hint at a major change that will make it more or less necessary to have unboosted manufactories and then expect people to not react to it.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
If you are maxing every single one then you're correct. I don't max every single boosted factory I have, which is less coin, less population, less culture and less supplies. So no not a good enough reason.
 

Calenmir

Well-Known Member
Right, but a level 1 marble and a level 1 steel take up 6 squares total, that is the same as a single granite or copper mine, and it's only for a day, maybe 2. It will likely take you longer than that to place your portal, tracks and fill the rest with mines. Assuming you have set aside space for copper mines, that area should be available for use while you build up your granite in order to even make a copper mine.
I don't disagree, but you're missing the point and that is it's not a necessary quest. You have your reason for finding it unnecessary and I have mine. If you are still going to do it even though you find it an unnecessary quest, good for you and I hope you enjoy the reward. But I don't find it necessary and I'm not going to do it. I can't be any more clear than that.

My question, in my first post, was very clear - are they saying that if I don't, then the event is over for me? It sounds like the answer is yes, but since he didn't actually say that I'm simply looking for clarification.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
If you are maxing every single one then you're correct. I don't max every single boosted factory I have, which is less coin, less population, less culture and less supplies. So no not a good enough reason.
At higher levels, all factories produce more goods per square, so max level is always better.
Also, shadowblack understated things
A boosted factory produces 8 times more goods than a non-boosted once you get enough relics.
My question, in my first post, was very clear - are they saying that if I don't, then the event is over for me? It sounds like the answer is yes, but since he didn't actually say that I'm simply looking for clarification.
Unless something changes even further than what has been decided, yes, you will be stuck forever in the event and never be able to complete it unless you build non-boosted.
Is that "a single low-level unboosted manufactory", or is it "1 of EACH non-boosted manufactory"? Since you said "non-boosted goods" - plural, so more than 1 non-boosted good.
Oh god I hadn't even looked at it as one of each from each tier. I do not like the idea of building 6 non- boosted factories at all.

This "new big thing" had better be amazing if I need to add this nastiness into my city...
1 of ea.png
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Soggy, I will be able to produce as much boosted goods as someone with 3 maxed out tier 1 factories, plus have 10 boosted factories that make doing the 20x quest fairly easy. Someone wrote 60 hours for the quest, mine is 6 hours and I don't have to constantly rebuild level 1 boosted factories for events. Plus, I have room for other factories, not just boosted. If later, I find out it's just not working, I am more than happy to change it. But for me now, it works, I still can trade and do, maybe just not as often as boosted only kingdoms have to.

My post wasn't a complete derailment. It's a partial response to those who said the pay x amount of goods was too much and having to produce tier 1 goods 20x was too much.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Soggy I appreciate the link, but I think you might have missed what I wrote about being able to produce just as much as a boosted only kingdom. Having the non boosted helps me in quests like pay x amount of goods when everyone is trying to get silk, crystals and scrolls at the same time.
 

DeletedUser170

Guest
At higher levels, all factories produce more goods per square, so max level is always better.

This is off topic, but I want to point out that this is not always the case, if you take into consideration how many square it actually takes with pop and cult included. For example even with a premium account it does not wort it to build the silk factories over lvl15, and even if you do, the best production/square ratio is lvl 17, not 19 (numbers are from the beginning of orc chapter). As your city grows the optimal levels grows though.
 

DeletedUser1767

Guest
This "new big thing" had better be amazing if I need to add this nastiness into my city...
View attachment 3160
I agree 100% that this is not something I want to add to any of my cities, and unless the super-secret new thing is really incredibly amazing, I'll probably refuse to do it, but I do have to admire how nearly this image approximates the Golden Ratio.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Soggy I appreciate the link, but I think you might have missed what I wrote about being able to produce just as much as a boosted only kingdom.
I 100% guarantee that you cannot produce as much as a boosted only city with the same number of factories at the same level. That's just simple math, if they are getting +100% to 700% bonus goods, and you aren't, then your production doesn't even come close.
Having the non boosted helps me in quests like pay x amount of goods when everyone is trying to get silk, crystals and scrolls at the same time.
Here's an example of why that thinking is flawed.
If your boost is silk, and you can make 1,000 crystal you could be making 2,000 to 8,000 silk instead(depending on boost%).
Even if everyone wants crystal for some reason, you could offer trades at incredible discounts which would be taken near instantly and still come out ahead.
 

Maillie

Well-Known Member
I have to applaud the Elvenar team! I spent 9 years in a top MMORPG and I was a beta tester, but the devs NEVER listened. Six months prior to an expansion called Warlords of Draenor there was a forum post titled "Professions are Horrible" that went on for (I think) 386 pages. It was stopped by the moderator and "Professions are Horrible II" was started with the same result. The expansion was eventually released exactly as it was in beta. Perhaps everything isn't perfect for everyone yet, but the fact that this event was pulled and reworked puts Elvenar at the top of my game list. Thank you very much team Elvenar.
 

DeletedUser2112

Guest
Soggy I appreciate the link, but I think you might have missed what I wrote about being able to produc.e just as much as a boosted only kingdom. Having the non boosted helps me in quests like pay x amount of goods when everyone is trying to get silk, crystals and scrolls at the same time.

Agreed - while so many people are in the Trader looking for the exact same items.. I just quietly manufacture my non-boosted goods.
Then, when I need something... I have what everyone else wants, and can normally receive quick trades... I do not attend the school of "Just Build Boosted Good"
 

DeletedUser

Guest
But what difference is there if you have 3 maxed out ones and I have 10? I can still produce as much as you plus have lots of stuff to play with. Matter of fact I have 25 factories in one kingdom. My little kingdom hums with activity.
 

Sir Squirrel

Well-Known Member
Play the game how you like Guinevere, Soggy is just trying to show you the benefits of boost only. As you collect relics of your boosted goods the amount you can produce grows (as seen in your main hall under the relics tab) where as you get no extra goods when producing non-boosted goods. Newer players that have not collected many relics for their boosts won't see much of an increase, but as you get more relics the amounts you can produce with boosted factories can go as high as 700% more goods per production. This is why so many players prefer to build only boosted factories and trade for the others, it saves space and produces more goods. But it is your city so play it how you like.
 
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