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Stop HIDING the rules !!

PaNonymeB

Well-Known Member
Stop hiding the rules...
It's been two months since I wrote this in my signature after posting this... and it's time for me to open a thread about this.
First, the hidden Tournament/Spire formula :
I already explained in the post linked above why hiding the formula was bad for strategy.
Now we know that we have a penalty for AWs and expansions but they refuse to tell us how much. It creates uncertainty, which is not only pointless (because we eventually find out the formula), but counterproductive.
As we can't cancel a purchase, uncertainty means we're better not purchasing anything until we know more precisely. People are wondering if they should level their AWs or buy expansions. And, even if now they'll not lose much money as the vast majority of players isn't aware they may be penalized for progress, new players will be given advice from us like "It's safer to not progress and not buy anything because progress might hurt you more than it helps." Inno, creating uncertainty will cost you, sooner or later. You know how much it will cost you if everyone that skipped SS upgrades become not sure if they should progress and thus don't spend money.
(I know the uncertainty created by the change doesn't come only from the formula being hidden, but also and mainly from the way they want to penalize us for any progress we do for the sake of fairness, and hiding doesn't actually make it worse for this one example as we found a good approximation of the formula (so it's as if it's not hidden), so this paragraph is a bit off topic and would probably be better in the tournament thread. But as I'll reuse the argument below I put this here.)

Then, crafting. When I'm offered to pay :diamond:50 for a new reroll, I want to know what I can expect in this reroll. Even the official list of recipes doesn't exist, the list is sometimes changed without any notice to the players. I shouldn't have to record 3 months of crafting recipes to know what I can get if I click this refresh button... only to have to restart from scratch because of a "core change" in the crafting system (well, this may be just a coincidence.) I'm tired of counting and took a break.
They also tried to hide grand prize progress in an event ! Fortunately they didn't redo it this event.

With such a "hide everything" policy, no wonder why there still isn't anything about the fighting system (outside of wonders that say damage and health exists) on the mobile app !

Finally, the future. They're hiding everything about their future plans, even if they are saying everything is planned long before it's released. I'm assuming below this is true (if this is wrong, this is a good reason to not say what's upcoming, but in this case say it). So then, why hide what's planned ? On another forum, I found this : https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/whats-being-worked-upon.24303/post-182000.
So, the reason why they're hiding their plans would be that they don't want us to "manipulate their playing style to meet the upcoming features" ?? Really ?? That's just basic planning, not manipulating... In other words, they want to change the rules without allowing us to adapt, and be able to say "hey, the choices you made that were good are now bad, but you can't cancel them anymore, :p" without any pre-notice (outside of the weeks of beta-testing). That's bait and switch and that's a bad way to treat players. With suddenly making premium expansions worse than before I'd feel cheated if I spent money on them. This, added to uncertainty created by such behaviour (see above - now I'm feeling if I do anything they could change the rules and make this choice bad), would ensure I wouldn't spend anything anymore if I were a paying player. I'm actually not spending money in this game anyway, but I'm sure many paying players are thinking like me here, or will later if they're more casual (see above). Such behaviour will cost you sooner or later.
(Actually, I decided to change my focus to ranking, as I think the ranking system is less likely to get sudden changes than anything else in the game. Until they decide to make a major change to this as well :p)
And, that's not the first time they do such brutal changes, although it was concerning more side parts of the game than this tournament change. For example, the release of chapter 15 in Autumn 2019, including an enormous increase in sentient goods demands along with the Spire. Players in end-game at this time could have sold a second T6 factory after leveling their T3, or disenchanted MM spells (Spire was brand new back then so huge stockpiles of spell fragments weren't existing), and then they were told "You have two weeks to rebuild your sentient factories and prepare a stockpile of MM spells. :p). Or, as Bearx are celebrating their first birthday and we're traveling a year in the past, let's remember Autumn Zodiac 2019 and its quests asking for lebeled workshops. I was playing without workshops back then (chapter 12), thanks to supply instants, wonders and neighborly help. I must admit, I bought a magic workshop (with free diamonds) after this and some may have spent money to buy one as well. But that's a short-term benefit for a probably stronger long-term cost, and there were enough complaints for them to remove such quests in the next event.

Another argument for hiding the future plans is that they've no idea when they'd be able to imllement it. But let's look at what they did in 2018 : They did a great rebalance of buildings in early 2018, saying RR spekls were being worked on. And the wait for them to be released was veeeery long. In fact, they were working on developing Crafting before RR spells. Perhaps players wouldn't have complained so much about the waiting time if they were told it wasn't the thing to be released next. Same in 2019 when app players were asking for messaging and AW donations and devs were working on the Spire. If they had said this, we would have been able to ask the Spire not to be released before mobile manual fighting before it was already ready to be released, and hopefully (very hopefully, I'm not saying this would have been likely to happen) we wouldn't have this unfair situation in the Spire and now Tournaments.
All they have to do is to put a disclaimer "We don't know how long it will take to be released" when they say what's upcoming.

Edit : several hours to write this post, spread in 2 days. Pheew ! ;)
 
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ErestorX

Well-Known Member
Now we know that we have a penalty for AWs and expansions but they refuse to tell us how much. It creates uncertainty, which is not only pointless (because we eventually find out the formula), but counterproductive.

Concerning AWs it is even worse. The positive effects of AWs are not hidden, they are communicated openly in game. Adding a hidden negative effect that diminishes the value of an AW is trickery. This is not only a problem for Elvenar but for the reputation of Inno as a company.
 

Deleted User - 89608

Guest
I've already stopped buying diamonds. With the upcoming tourney changes, I will not be adding any expansions and won't be advancing in the tech tree beyond the end of chapter 15 unless something truly worth it appears in a future chapter. How long the game holds my interest when I'm no longer advancing remains to be seen.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
(Actually, I decided to change my focus to ranking, as I think the ranking system is less likely to get sudden changes than anything else in the game (and also because it's the only area of the game where I'm not punished from progress)
I progressed by selling off most of my residences and replacing them with Venar's iii which are 70% more efficient!!!!
Huge progress, right? Nope, lost well over 20,000 points.
The ranking system in this game is kinda dumb. How is a ~500 pop/sq building worth zero but a ~285 building is worth 1,600?
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
The ranking system in this game is kinda dumb. How is a ~500 pop/sq building worth zero but a ~285 building is worth 1,600?

Hasn't it always been that a building only gives you ranking points if it requires more than just coins and/or supplies to place it? Pop, culture, relics for AWs, etc.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Hasn't it always been that a building only gives you ranking points if it requires more than just coins and/or supplies to place it? Pop, culture, relics for AWs, etc.
AFAIK the ranking system has never changed, it's just ((Culture + Pop consumed) *1) and I forget wonders.
That's the whole problem with it, it's based on consumption, not production. This makes all event buildings worth zero.
 

PaNonymeB

Well-Known Member
Actually when I wrote this I had in mind that you don't lose ranking points by upgrading factories or place expansions. But there's indeed these event buildings that are better than regular buildiings, but don't give ranking points, hence I removed this sentence about progress and ranking. But at least the ranking system is not hidden, so I can make strategic choices ;)
 
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