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Discussion Spire of Eternity

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
to me it feels like inno still doesnt understand how the squad size is out of control. Even tho tournament and spire are probably very well balanced for early chapter, in later chapters it goes so much out of control because almost everything is mandatory in the tech tree. While its also out of control in tournaments, we learnt to cope with it since we adapted our citys to still be able to do it.
With a new feature like spire, it becomes very obvious to everyone, the squad sizes are out of control since many of us are high chapter allready and we see the high cost straight away. there was no adapting and growing into the high costs period.

Compare it by building a 10 story building, if you have to build it straight away, you think its impossible, but if you build it level by level you gradually see it is possible.

I think we need to look at the squad size imbalances and how this also affect cater costs. when combat overhaul was done it might have been perfectly balanced, but 5 chapters later i think we can see that the balance wasnt right afterall. The fact that a lot of tournament high rankers are very low chapter (chapter 2-3) proves in my eyes theres something wrong there.

I might be the only one who thinks this way tho, so feel free to disagree with me
 
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iDavis

Well-Known Member
@Marindor I want these instants to be replaced also in that situation. In diplomacy feature, we can finally use that stacks of coin rains we got from events, there is no need to add even more ways how to get them.

There could also be a point in consideration of removing these instants, replacing them with other rewards and adding only more valuable coin / supply rains (like 25-33%) and only in few chests (let's say one from each resource per 1 map).
 

palmira

Well-Known Member
Coins and supplies instants are NOT the only rewards? I am shocked

(ok, I always win 30 diamonds on the last chest on the first stage and some 3x1h instants and fragments. And lots os coins and supplies instants. My opinion of the spire has not changed in the 3 tests: it is not worth the troops. I will test the negotiation but I suspect it will be just a nice decoration when the testing is done)
 

Jaxom

Well-Known Member
When I get some set building, will it disappear from rewards like in crafting?
Great point! I got the gum tree on the second version of the spire. it is still appearing on this one - same place.

Set buildings can be great if you get the full set (i do love the full carnival set) but partial ones are largely a waste. So if I try the spire a bunch of times and keep getting the parts I already have and never complete it I am going to get frustrated. Maybe it is just me but I am not going to keep dumping troops and goods into trying for something that may never happen. I don't throw away money on lotteries.

At least on an event I know that I have limited chances to get the set buildings. I can focus on those or ignore them completely. I get the set or I don't. Done.
If the spire keeps offering the same pieces to the same sets over and over I am going to either get them and stop or give up on them and stop.

I'm not sure there is a real solution to this. If you change prizes on the spire that will upset people who needed just one more piece to complete a set. Maybe set prizes are the problem. Give us good odds of getting good stand-alone prizes that change from time to time. We can look at the prizes and decide if we want to take a chance.
 

Deleted User - 62044

Guest
10% yes
15% not
20% maybe
25% neither
30% don't care
you love chest i give you one, good luck

postscript:
I will not waste a coin or a soldier until the needle is completely finished. I saw the rewards and probably after it was finished ... neither.
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
Supply instants are useless to me, as I already have more supplies than I can use. At best, I trade them daily for goods at the wholesaler.

Coin instants can at least be converted to KP, which can be used on AWs.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
to me it feels like inno still doesnt understand how the squad size is out of control. Even tho tournament and spire are probably very well balanced for early chapter, in later chapters it goes so much out of control because almost everything is mandatory in the tech tree. While its also out of control in tournaments, we learnt to cope with it since we adapted our citys to still be able to do it.
With a new feature like spire, it becomes very obvious to everyone, the squad sizes are out of control since many of us are high chapter allready and we see the high cost straight away. there was no adapting and growing into the high costs period.

Compare it by building a 10 sotry building, if you have to build it straight away, you think its impossible, but if you build it level by level you gradually see it is possible.

I think we need to look at the squad size imbalances and how this also affect cater costs. when combat overhaul was done it might have been perfctly balanced, but 5 chapters later i think we can see that the balance wasnt right afterall. The fact that a lot of tournament high rankers are very low chapter (chapter 2-3) proves in my eyes theres something wrong there.

I might be the only one who thinks this way tho, so feel free to disagree with me

True, tho this was partly mitiligated with de addition of combat buildings at crafting and the fire phoenix.
Until that point the chapter 3-4 accounts reigned supreme.

At least the high ranked players now have taken back control of the tournament.
This doesn't mean that it's still way to easy to play with a chapter 3-4 tourney account, and the new horrible "animation" at the app doesn't make fighting appealing there now as well, while catering (chapter 3-4 strategy) is unaffected.
Those cheap accounts still reign supreme just under the absolute best players in the tournaments.

That said, I am still wonderen how the spire catering proces will advance. if it's similar to the tournaments, you can call it a dead feature. but if it's balanced in a cool way I might be able to squeeze out the materials for catering in spire and fighting in the tournament.

Right now the 2 compete with eachother for recources and the tournament wins hands down that competition. there you get loads of goodies while at the spire you get a load of junk.
This includes spell fragments.
upload_2019-6-17_23-34-33.png

Seriously I also don't need those anymore, You get loads of dead goods from the many many many many events elvenar runs these days.
almost no short events exist anymore and we are running from large to large event which result in many prizes we can't even place anymore since which turn in to spell fragments.
Pet food eats away most of my CC spells, leaving little room to craft anything else, which in turn makes if even a more "dead good".
In the past I used those fragments for example to portal profit spells. nowadays it's the increasingly rare combat building and blueprint conversion recipe where I could spend a bit at.
These days I somtimes just craft junk for the sake of getting rid of those spell fragments.

So with this is mind, the only prizes we could win are:
  • Some diamonds
  • Some CC spells
  • an almost non existing chance on a magic building
  • a single set,that wil take decades to complete which could disrupt the market.
  • an almost non existing chance on a Djinn (which sounds like a beefed up wishing well in the Q&A but I don't have it so I cant say if it's worth it.)
  • an awesome combat building which would make the spire a lot easier but lasts only 5 days(little to no chance, go figure)
I probably missed something. but compare this to the guaranteed rewards from the tournament and I would say get a few wishing wells for the diamonds and ignore the rest.
I'll rather have many guaranteed spells, hundreds of guaranteed KP, all those guaranteed hundreds of relics to keep my academy running making those CC spells you could win a bit above. and so many more.

How does that sound compared to the "possibility" of the prizes above?
 
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Arayla

Well-Known Member
Here's what I see as strong possibilities:

negotiate only - probably want coin and supply instants to replenish after high coin/supply negotiating costs
auto-fight - will want maybe 3 chests per map to give coin/supply instants due to negotiating on the wave encounters
manual fight - will not want any coin-supply instants

additionally, giving troops as a chest reward was suggested:

negitiate only - will not want troops
auto-fight - will want many, many troops
manual - some will and some will not want troops, depends on what is being given away and inventory levels, which is difficult to predict
 

ULISE

Member
I am playing "Elvenar" starting in 2015 and I think I have a lot of experience, especially in the provinces or tournaments. These battles take them manually. I have never lost a fight in manual mode no matter how difficult it is.
Regarding the fights in May 3 Waves from Spire of Eternity, I have not managed to win even once, although I have used all the possible combinations of troops.
I think the waves of three waves are too difficult, almost impossible.
If I do not reduce the difficulty I feel forced to give up these battles, especially as the prizes offered are quite unattractive.

With respect!
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
True, tho this was partly mitiligated with de addition of combat buildings at crafting and the fire phoenix.
Until that point the chapter 3-4 accounts reigned supreme.

At least the high ranked players now have taken back control of the tournament.
This doesn't mean that it's still way to easy to play with a chapter 3-4 tourney account, and the new horrible "animation" at the app doesn't make fighting appealing there now as well, while catering (chapter 3-4 strategy) is unaffected.
Those cheap accounts still reign supreme just under the absolute best players in the tournaments.

That said, I am still wonderen how the spire catering proces will advance. if it's similar to the tournaments, you can call it a dead feature. but if it's balanced in a cool way I might be able to squeeze out the materials for catering in spire and fighting in the tournament.

Right now the 2 compete with eachother for recources and the tournament wins hands down that competition. there you get loads of goodies while at the spire you get a load of junk.
This includes spell fragments.
View attachment 5958
Seriously I also don't need those anymore, You get loads of dead goods from the many many many many events elvenar runs these days.
almost no short events exist anymore and we are running from large to large event which result in many prizes we can't even place anymore since which turn in to spell fragments.
Pet food eats away most of my CC spells, leaving little room to craft anything else, which in turn makes if even a more "dead good".
In the past I used those fragments for example to portal profit spells. nowadays it's the increasingly rare combat building and blueprint conversion recipe where I could spend a bit at.
These days I somtimes just craft junk for the sake of getting rid of those spell fragments.

So with this is mind, the only prizes we could win are:
  • Some diamonds
  • Some CC spells
  • an almost non existing chance on a magic building
  • a single set,that wil take decades to complete which could disrupt the market.
  • an almost non existing chance on a Djinn (which sounds like a beefed up wishing well in the Q&A but I don't have it so I cant say if it's worth it.)
  • an awesome combat building which would make the spire a lot easier but lasts only 5 days(little to no chance, go figure)
I probably missed something. but compare this to the guaranteed rewards from the tournament and I would say get a few wishing wells for the diamonds and ignore the rest.
I'll rather have many guaranteed spells, hundreds of guaranteed KP, all those guaranteed hundreds of relics to keep my academy running making those CC spells you could win a bit above. and so many more.

How does that sound compared to the "possibility" of the prizes above?

Be fair. Don't you already have a lot of everything? Do you really need any more of the tournament rewards other than KP (because AWs eat them like candy)?

Oh, and the preview showed us negotiations that looked a lot like FoE GE negotiations. For those who don't know, it's a variation on Mastermind -- you guess some goods and they give you some clues as to whether you are right or wrong.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Be fair. Don't you already have a lot of everything? Do you really need any more of the tournament rewards other than KP (because AWs eat them like candy)?

Oh, and the preview showed us negotiations that looked a lot like FoE GE negotiations. For those who don't know, it's a variation on Mastermind -- you guess some goods and they give you some clues as to whether you are right or wrong.

No off course over time I collected an insane amount of relics, but assuming I had not, In fact I do play a fairly new account. and the thing I really need from several tournaments except the KP are actually relics.
It aren't only the wonders that are hungry, So is the magic acedemy. especially now I upgraded it. it devours steel, crystal and elixer relics (lucky me for not needing scrolls and or magic dust ones those tournaments are tough)
Each time those tournaments are active I need a minimum of 252 of those relics. which is ok but as a chapter 9 account that still takes some effort.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Is it possible to re-order the prizes? I know people really dislike the windfalls (except me) Currently, I'm sitting at encounter 4 debating if I really should do this and the prizes are portal profits. Is it possible to move the supply windfalls down to 4 and move the portal profits up a little further?
Maybe move the two portal profits to encounter 5 and 7 and move the windfall from 5 and the 1 hour booster from 7 down to 4?
 
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Jaxom

Well-Known Member
I just finished the 3 wave battle before the 12 hour cooldown. On Auto fight I lost, added my 40% boost from phoenix and still lost on auto.
Did a manual fight for first time in maybe 2 years. Won.
My reward, drum roll - 5% portal profit.
I can craft that.

You could at LEAST give us something that we cannot draft as reward on the 3-wave battles.
Won't be doing another one of those until I read that things are improving. Simply not worth spending so much to get so little.

And oh yes, on the way to the 3-wave I got nothing worthwhile though I was able to win all fights on auto.
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
Is it possible to re-order the prizes? I know people really dislike the windfalls (except me) Currently, I'm sitting at encounter 4 debating if I really should do this and the prizes are portal profits. Is it possible to move the supply windfalls down to 4 and move the portal profits up a little further?
Maybe move the two portal profits to encounter 5 and 7 and move the windfall from 5 and the 1 hour booster from 7 down to 4?
and while you are swapping prizes, is it possible to move the rewards from the bosses, to the first encounters on the very first maps? i dont mind if all the supply windfalls and coin rains are at the last encounters on the last maps. So move all the good prizes to the very start, and all the bad prizes to the very end please :)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
@Heymrdiedier You're funny.
and while you are swapping prizes, is it possible to move the rewards from the bosses, to the first encounters on the very first maps? i dont mind if all the supply windfalls and coin rains are at the last encounters on the last maps. So move all the good prizes to the very start, and all the bad prizes to the very end please
I was looking at this based on the chapter I'm on, which is 4. I don't think portal profits are bad prizes, just not something I can use right away where as a someone who is in chapter 6 should be able to get further in the spire then I can. I've also read from people here that the 1 hour time instant is a crap prize. Not for me.

Having 41 factories at chapter 4 takes a tremendous amount of supplies and people at higher chapters say they don't want windfall gifts. I also can't make Pop spells for my workshops because they use the same freaking relics as some of my wonders and cc spells. I'm left with windfall gifts to try and boost up my supply inventory.
 
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