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Discussion Spire of Eternity

MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
Edit: i up 2 AWs and the cost does not change, i do not understand how the cost is calculated !
costs are fixed at the moment of spire start. You'll see the difference next week.
It depends not only on AW levels, it includes tech tree progress/provinces finished/etc
Also, if you're only looking at cost changes you may not notice differences due to rounding. If game calculates 411K gold or 413K gold per negotiation, it will round both to 410K so you won't see a difference. To see finer details, you need to look at Spire squad sizes, these are only rounded to integers.

Based on my observations so far, base Spire squad sizes increase by about 6.5 and 2.9 (yours / enemy's) per extra AW level. The rest of the cost increases can be recalculated from that. But I'll need more data to figure out if these are absolute numbers, or specific to the rest of my setup (e.g. provinces etc). I'll post a separate thread asking for more data.
 

Arthus

Well-Known Member
I wonder if they will add something beyond 3rd floor in the future... similar to whirlpool in fellowships adventures
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
After the change if your FS don't get all 12 chests you get less diamonds than before. Even if you yourself clear full spire.
 

MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
I would like to see specific breakdown on diamond changes. I have a nagging suspicion that most of the "increase if you're doing the whole Spire" thing will end up in chest 12, which is pretty hard to achieve even for top FS...
Called it! ;)

Well, it wasn't that difficult...
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
I don't really understand the rationale behind changing the diamond amounts. The Spire has a limited number of encounters each week, so how could reducing the timers on the gates by itself increase the amount of diamonds rewarded? Assuming a player is already completing the full Spire, all reducing the gate timers does is make it more convenient for them to complete. It's not magically conjuring more diamonds out of thin air.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I don't really understand the rationale behind changing the diamond amounts. The Spire has a limited number of encounters each week, so how could reducing the timers on the gates by itself increase the amount of diamonds rewarded? Assuming a player is already completing the full Spire, all reducing the gate timers does is make it more convenient for them to complete. It's not magically conjuring more diamonds out of thin air.
You need to package bad news in a wat that is as positive as possible.
I guess they decided that the "free" diamants turned out to be awarded to easily, the further you come the more likely you are to spend diamonds in the tower.
So the more the diamonds are placed at the end, the more likely you are to spend some to reach it.

Innogames is a commercial entity they need to make money.
 

lyrya

Active Member
This is really bad for smaller FS. We barely manage to get to first chest. I was considering pushing for third level even with the massive cost to my economy (will start dwarves soon). but i found it valuable for the diamonds. now i don't htink i'll even do second level anymore.too ressource intensive for too low reward if my fs will only get to first level
 

cestbienmoi

Well-Known Member
Finally, it seems that is is really a nerf because most people do 1 level, some 2 levels.
It does not change the difficulties (time & cost) to finish level 3 but it helps to finish level 2.
 
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CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
One of the things we noticed about the "reschedule" of diamonds is that now people feel like the have lost something when the win diamonds.

Let me explain, before we got in the past 25,40.45 diamonds as prize depending on the location.
When the player spend 25 diamonds for an extra round and won some diamonds that player said, hey I got my diamonds back or a little profit. :)

Currently when the player buys an extra turn and wins the diamonds the response is "I lost" :( since the prize is lower than the investment
In this case NOT winning diamonds would have been a psychological better option (we are creatures of psychology not rational)

So it created a negative tone.

I like to suggest to remove the 15 diamonds win altogether (make it a coin instant or so) and use it to improve the other 2 to from 20 to 25 and 30 diamonds
This will stil be another nerf from a rational standpoint (because the different win probability) but will improve morale of players when the win diamonds.

I call this a win=win
 

ashrem

Well-Known Member
I like to suggest to remove the 15 diamonds win altogether
I'd take it further. I think there is no diamond win in the tower that is worth as much to players as the alternatives. Speaking for myself, even 150 diamonds at the top boss feels like I've waste my trip up.
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
The sad thing is people asking for more diamonds at the top of the spire where not expecting them to be taken from the bottom of the spire. People were hoping for more overall rewards as an incentive, this feels more like a reshuffle for most.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I'd take it further. I think there is no diamond win in the tower that is worth as much to players as the alternatives. Speaking for myself, even 150 diamonds at the top boss feels like I've waste my trip up.
If you just play the tower for diamonds, yeah it is.
But hey if you play it for all it can give, than thats a nice cherry on top.

I don't know how much WW you might have, wait untill we are starved again from diamonds. like in the ancient old day's where the only diamonds you could get for free where the rare forum events they held. those events were massive as it was the only way.

Expect over time that the tower will recreate that feeling again. then diamonds get there glory back as a prize.
Currently why bothering? when WW grants you those and more goodies (like KP) with almost no effort.

It makes total sense they removed those from events.

old times return ;)
 

iDavis

Well-Known Member
@CrazyWizard the another problem with this was that while they were adding new ways to get diamonds, their prize in real money remained the same. It's been several years ago, when I lastly thought about buying them, since then I have never ever tought about that anymore. From current WWs in my city on live, during last 60 days I got diamonds in a value of more than 150 €...
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
@CrazyWizard the another problem with this was that while they were adding new ways to get diamonds, their prize in real money remained the same. It's been several years ago, when I lastly thought about buying them, since then I have never ever tought about that anymore. From current WWs in my city on live, during last 60 days I got diamonds in a value of more than 150 €...
I believe there biggest issue is the people they target those diamond sales to, they are catering the "1%" but ignoring the other 24% thats willing to spend a buck but not "that much"
For that group after the first few expansions and lowly priced items that vanish very quickly since we go trough chapters faster and faster.
There is simply no other way than hoarding diamonds to do somthing for that group.

Reducing the free diamonds won't solve there current issues, they should really refocus there efforts to find ways to get the other group that is willing to spend money on the game,
As long as this group does not get any commercial focus and the game focus keept on those who spend way to much by making things even more expensice I believe it's a dead end for the game.

But I don't believe those changes will happen trough the wrong mindset within the elvenar commercial team.
1.5-2 years ago a eureka moment should have gone trough there sales department, the sold wat is currently the outpost for 5 euro and they sold like hotcakes, you would see those literally everywhere.
My response to that would be:
  • Good, we found a goldmine, there seems to be a group willing to spend 5 euro without thinking, what else can me make/create/sell in this price bracket?
Elvenar commercial team thinking
  • Wow these sell wel, there to cheap, lets double down next time (10 euro)
First of all this, approach angers people as they see inno-games not as a service provider that we like to shower with a bit of money for there effort, but a hard corporate cash grubbing devil, and it creates resistance to spend ever again within the existing community
Second, they are going the road again of making things more expensive, targetting a lower amount of players, it also shows there seem to be incapable of "other thinking"

3x 5 euro is more than 1x10, the cheaper the percieved price something is, the more it sells, and digital games are a perfect flatform to differentiate your portfolio on the cheap and create loads of cheap sales options. things you can sell many times over with near zero production costs.
This is the basic of "freemium games" and what made them rule today's gaming world.

And yes that gaming world also has some examples of way to expensive items for those for who money has no limit, but it's always combined with a loads of large volume low priced items.
That last group, I havent seen them in elvenar, where are my load of cheap options?
 
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MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
...3x 5 euro is more than 2x10
It's not ;) But instead of nitpicking - I think everyone got your point - I'll play devil's advocate. While I largely agree with what you're saying, we actually don't know real stats about their customer behavior. While higher volume on lower price sometimes is the answer, it is not always the case (e.g. luxury goods providers). And as we don't have this data (speculation about what we individually think, or even a few of our friends think, is not data), Inno does have this data. Assuming they do have a reasonably competent marketing department, that is. And given that they're a large, successful and profitable company there is no reason to believe that they don't.

Keep in mind that forum participants are not necessarily a good representation of the playerbase at large. So, there is that.