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Discussion Spire of Eternity

iDavis

Well-Known Member
I don´t agree with RR spells as a reward in spire. Current amount they are giving us is enough in order to keep events point. Any other way how to gain RRs would be a step forward to destroying well-balanced event building system, in long-term. So not more RR.

On the other hand, something I really miss in rewards are, already mentioned, KPs. Each encounter could contain, except the chest with random reward, fixed one, which could be, 1-3 KPs. Or like in tournaments - spells or relics. For now, the only thing I see I will get like "for sure" when climbing up are coins and supplies, and that´s not really motivating.
 

maxiqbert

Well-Known Member
If you play spire AND turnament, it good bring you out of balance.
But not many of us will be able (at least with this configuration) to keep this pace
 

palmira

Well-Known Member
when we can play it???
After the testing here, where I really don't care about rank, I will give it a wide berth live, there is no way I will waste my precious troops and risk the tourneys for coins and supplies instants I will never use... I lost over 100 squads testing and got nothing useful in return and I will advise everybody in my FS not to play it unless they have some 100's spare squads
 

Saur

Member
Well, I just tested the Spire again after it was reset, and I must say this time it was a much more enjoyable experience. Where I was previously totally stuck at the first two wave fight, I could now fight my way through the first map with reasonable troop losses (comparable to what I am used to from fighting on automatic in the tournament). It also seems the opponents of the different waves in multi wave fights are aligned so that my fighter's strengths will work for all waves. Now I'll wait for the 12 h door to open (or I get bored enough and use time boosters) and we'll see what the second map is like...
Turns out the first fight on the second map was a new brick wall. So sorry, but more tuning is definitely needed. First, balanced tuning between manual and auto fighting should not be whether it is possible or not to win, but how great the losses are (especially when manual fighting is disabled). Second, it should be basically impossible to hit a brick wall regardless of how good or bad my troops are on the first two maps. I wouldn't expect that until the fourth map...
 

Marindor

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Thanks guys, for providing us with your feedback and ideas. We're certainly looking into the rewards, as well as the encounter difficulties. We'll also have to see what manual battles and the upcoming Diplomacy feature will do to the overall difficulty of the Spire. For people who don't want to read the whole thread, we've also included a FAQ section in the opening post :)

Thank you all once again for helping us with testing and improving this feature and for understanding why we already made it available to you, despite it not being fully complete yet. For the players asking why this is: We could have waited a few more weeks, until everything was ready, but we wanted to involve you as early as possible, so we still have time to actually implement your feedback before the feature goes to Live. For us this is a somewhat new way of working as well, because you're not used to getting access to new features at such an early stage, but if we see this contributes to an overall better game experience, it's likely we will continue this way of working for future features as well, giving Beta players and Beta testing more influence on the end result :)
 

Crowella

Well-Known Member
Any other way how to gain RRs would be a step forward to destroying well-balanced event building system, in long-term.
I'm curious as to how you calculate this. A mid-sized player in a fairly average alliance gets 6 or maybe 8 chests a week. That's 2-3 RRs. An average- sized event building has say 15 squares so requires 15 RRs. that means that optimistically such a player could upgrade one event building every 5-8 weeks. So the player would be lucky to be able to upgrade one event building at something approaching their rate of growth.

It seems to me that there's a lot of room for additional RRs as prizes without throwing the game out of balance. But perhaps you see an aspect that I'm not considering?
 

iDavis

Well-Known Member
@Crowella I'm calculating with players, whose fellowships are able to make 10 chests a week, what includes 5 RRs + many more from crafting, using a blueprint. This is problably the maximum they should give us in order to keep above mentioned balance.
Other fellowships, which are not able to make 10 chests, are usually consisting of lower chapter players, whose progress is faster than end-chapter ones, so here is more effective to get new buildings instead of upgrading, anyway.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
Thank you all once again for helping us with testing and improving this feature and for understanding why we already made it available to you, despite it not being fully complete yet. For the players asking why this is: We could have waited a few more weeks, until everything was ready, but we wanted to involve you as early as possible, so we still have time to actually implement your feedback before the feature goes to Live. For us this is a somewhat new way of working as well, because you're not used to getting access to new features at such an early stage, but if we see this contributes to an overall better game experience, it's likely we will continue this way of working for future features as well, giving Beta players and Beta testing more influence on the end result :)
i really hope that players will understand this and support this decision, its better for everybody
in the past we had changes which were questionable and reverted after, with this new approach this should be easier to do for devs and better for players in a long run, we even asked many times that players should influence the game earlier in development, because on the end its for them
 

Dony

King of Bugs
@Crowella I'm calculating with players, whose fellowships are able to make 10 chests a week, what includes 5 RRs + many more from crafting, using a blueprint. This is problably the maximum they should give us in order to keep above mentioned balance.
Other fellowships, which are not able to make 10 chests, are usually consisting of lower chapter players, whose progress is faster than end-chapter ones, so here is more effective to get new buildings instead of upgrading, anyway.
i dont think we should be limited to upgrading event buidling only, what if they can make new recipe to convert 10 RRS to 1 artifact or blueprint to artifact or something new, which will add more variety in usefulness of items instead of adding still new ones
 

iDavis

Well-Known Member
@Dony if they add more usages for RR, then ok, add more ways where to get it as well, but.. I still prefer having more items, each with specific and unique usage. This is also pro for developers - they can make variety in rewards, and still be able to handle what are players using them for.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
problem with that is that players are forced to do them all if they want all kind of different unique rewards. giving them more sources will let them choose what they prefer more and thus enjoy playing it more
 
@iDavis I for one would like more ways to obtain RR spells. I play on CZ Arendyll, and there are not many 10 chests fellowships. There are a lot of FS that claim to be casual and have no or very little requirements for the tournaments. I'm in the FS that's in top 60 and altough we try, we score 10th chest only once in five weeks or so. We have some very advanced players, but everyone is content there, everyone is really nice, so we prefer good company to performance. So take into account that not every able player is in the 10 chest FS, for whatever reasons. But if I could win more RR regardless of my fellows, I would welcome it.
 

Potvorisko

Well-Known Member
I would appreciate som KP as an extra bonus for each encounter as well + some revard in chest (for me coins and supplies are not good enought either). KP are never enough, one way or another, we gain all kind of stuff in game to gather them to envolve our cities. If you lower the squads to playable level, so we can fight in tournaments and also in spire and improve the revards, the spire could be really great part of the game.
 

Crowella

Well-Known Member
lower chapter players, whose progress is faster than end-chapter ones, so here is more effective to get new buildings instead of upgrading, anyway.
I got my fire phoenix when I started the game at around the time the phoenix evolution event started. He's therefore in chapter 1. In what world is it more effective for me to wait a year (if as some anticipate they might be offered again next Easter) and fully evolve another fire phoenix rather than having some reasonable path to having it grow with me? It makes much more sense to make RRs more accessible to lower-level players. Higher-level players might want other prizes, and those should be available too, but it makes sense for certain special buildings to have RRs more readily available.

If the rationale is that people should upgrade buildings using events, then why have RRs at all? I don't buy the logic that they're somehow only relevant for late-game players.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
@Crowella
Blueprints (and their promised eventual ability to upgrade event buildings) used to be the holy grail of rewards- something to grind away at and to gather a group of like-minded players together to strive for that ultimate achievement.

The addition of a conversion rate and a sprinkling of RR's to give lower achieving FS a taste was imo a deliberate design choice while maintaining that sense of accomplishment.
The more RRs that become available from other sources the less motive there is to reach for that goal, and Elvenar has few enough goals as is.

I can't be sure, but I also think that the 10 chest groups out there feel a sense of obligation to their fellows and players who might fade away from the game in the 7 months between chapter releases stick it out to not let them down. But...There's a very very real chance that's just me projecting.
 

Aramina

Well-Known Member
In what world is it more effective for me to wait a year (if as some anticipate they might be offered again next Easter) and fully evolve another fire phoenix rather than having some reasonable path to having it grow with me?
so here is more effective to get new buildings instead of upgrading
Why would you leave the end of the sentence off, the part that pretty much lets you know iDavis was talking about event buildings in general, the ones that might give you 240 culture and 115 pop or someting like that. Those are the buildings that RRS are kind of wasted on, if you can get another of the same in an event or 2 down the road and you may have progressed a chapter or 2. No one thinks or suggested "it's more effective to wait a year for your Fire Phoenix." Come on now. :oops:
 

iDavis

Well-Known Member
@Crowella Aramina got the point, I meant "get new buildings" in order to replace, so related to buildings whose availability is regular and value is avarage; fire phoenix, as one of best buildings ever made, is out of this group, where upgrading and spending RR is in a place. And let's consider, how many such a buildings players have, how many RRs do they cost to upgrade, how many do players get (even in non 10 chest FS), and compare.
 

Maillie

Well-Known Member
One of the things I find in smaller cities in my live fellowship is a reluctance to replace something they earned in a previous chapter, since that chapter wasn't that long ago. They are more apt to not want to replace things, but add to the things they already have. When I got to Willows was when I did mass removal of old culture buildings. Our small cities love the RR spells and contribute to the tournaments, we were in the 9th chest again and have finished 10 chests a couple of times recently, even though we're not tournament oriented. Those are the small cities that become large cities, and spend money on diamonds.