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(Spoilers) Something rustles in the grass!

Arthus

Well-Known Member
Enemies should not evolve the same way the player units do. They should be easier and easier to beat, but currently IG is focused about getting rid of advanced players. Seeing artifacts we fought so hard to get in spire with % to get is like hit in the face.
 

ErestorX

Well-Known Member
"Will going from the end of chapter 15 through 16 & 17 to reach the new 4-star units in 18 increase or decrease one's sustainable tournament ability?" You are in chapter 17, you can no longer make this choice.

Actually I researched only the Advanced trader 4 so far and this question (except for the chapter 16 part) is exactly what I have been thinking about since I read about the new units.

The stockpiling question was part of a conversation line on this question. Please follow along more carefully.

Yes and I reacted to an argument of yours that doesn't hold in my case. Since I managed to stockpile troops during the first new tournament cycle I decided to start chapter 17 now. But needing all available troops and being only in chapter 15 are two reasons to postpone this decision until more details about chapter 18/ **** troops are known.
 

Deleted User - 86059

Guest
@SoggyShorts please be nicer in your replies.
Or say nothing at all because those comments do not add to the conversation
 

Jammin

Well-Known Member
Everblossom Sleigh (February Evolution Building)
Values for chapter 17 - changes possible
Gold 688k / 24h
Seeds 2720 / 24h
Goods T1 12960 / 24h
+3 KP
Pop 3360 Kult 6720
7a155068ee06.png
 

Jammin

Well-Known Member
My question was:
"Will going from the end of chapter 15 through 16 & 17 to reach the new 4-star units in 18 increase or decrease one's sustainable tournament ability?"
You are in chapter 17, you can no longer make this choice.
The stockpiling question was part of a conversation line on this question...
So it is, please do not lose sight of this question, we will certainly come back to it as soon as there is more information about what the next chapter has in store.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
So it is, please do not lose sight of this question, we will certainly come back to it as soon as there is more information about what the next chapter has in store.
I calculated the answer so far. Maybe chapter 18 will blow us away and change things, but for now, hell no.

TL;DR:
From the start of 16 to the end of 17 there's close to a 14.5% total decrease in sustainable tournament ability.

https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/3793637fe40e4920b159fededa12bb28/
First choice: to continue in chapter 16 to the end:
The increase in tournament squad size (and therefore losses) from the first tech to the last tech in CH16 is 13%

This chapter unlocks upgrades for the Training grounds from level 24 to 28 which increases its production by 16.8%
I just checked my Beta city and the training grounds are responsible for 18.4% of my troop output with the rest coming from the barracks, Merc, wonders, evos, GoToS and Vallors.
So, that 16.8% bump on 18.4% of my production equals a 3% overall increase.

New levels of workshops and residences also unlock later in the chapter, but those have zero value since the Magic versions are already unlocked at the first tech.

That leaves Tier 2 buildings which can go up from 27 to 31. That gives a production increase of 48% but due to the 25% increase in size and 108% increase in population requirements they actually produce fewer goods per square than at level 27.

By moving "forwards" to the end of chapter 16 my tournament capacity will decrease by about 10%.

Now if I made it that far clearly it would make sense to pop into the next chapter to unlock upgrades for my event buildings and craftables which (assuming I had enough RR spells) would increase their output by about 10%. Those buildings make up around 20% of my production so a 2% overall bump.

Moving from the very end of chapter 16 one tech into 17 and spending 270 RR spells would increase my sustainable tournament ability by 2% But I'd still be down 8% from my current position at the start of CH 16

Next decision: should I go to the end of chapter 17? The techs this time would give a further 15% bump in squad size.
  • 2 levels of the Merc camp get unlocked an increase of just over 11%, and since the Mercs account for just under 25% of my troop production that works out to 2.75% increased total output.
  • 2 Barracks levels as well, also increasing by 11%. The barracks portion of my troop training is 22%, for 2.4%
  • 2 levels of Training Grounds , also increasing by 11%. The TG portion of my troop training is 18.4%, for 2.0%
Then the T3 factories get a whopping 64% bump in production but again that's accompanied by a 112% increase in pop requirements and a 27% increase in size negating the production boost.

So, by moving "forwards" from the start of 17 to the end my tournament capacity would decrease by close to 8%.

Edit:
I missed the Squad size techs for a 9% bump in AW troop production which account for 14.6% of my output for a further 1.26% increase in total output (total from the start of CH16 to the end of CH17)

From the start of 16 to the end of 17 there's close to a 14.5% total decrease in sustainable tournament ability including the edit above.

Note: This only factors in the penalty from researching mandatory techs. AW upgrades and expansions don't really count since I could do those at any chapter (I'm sitting on a few unplaced already)
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I calculated the answer so far. Maybe chapter 18 will blow us away and change things, but for now, hell no.

TL;DR:
From the start of 16 to the end of 17 there's close to a 14.5% total decrease in sustainable tournament ability.

https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/3793637fe40e4920b159fededa12bb28/
First choice: to continue in chapter 16 to the end:
The increase in tournament squad size (and therefore losses) from the first tech to the last tech in CH16 is 13%

This chapter unlocks upgrades for the Training grounds from level 24 to 28 which increases its production by 16.8%
I just checked my Beta city and the training grounds are responsible for 18.4% of my troop output with the rest coming from the barracks, Merc, wonders, evos, GoToS and Vallors.
So, that 16.8% bump on 18.4% of my production equals a 3% overall increase.

New levels of workshops and residences also unlock later in the chapter, but those have zero value since the Magic versions are already unlocked at the first tech.

That leaves Tier 2 buildings which can go up from 27 to 31. That gives a production increase of 48% but due to the 25% increase in size and 108% increase in population requirements they actually produce fewer goods per square than at level 27.

By moving "forwards" to the end of chapter 16 my tournament capacity will decrease by about 10%.

Now if I made it that far clearly it would make sense to pop into the next chapter to unlock upgrades for my event buildings and craftables which (assuming I had enough RR spells) would increase their output by about 10%. Those buildings make up around 20% of my production so a 2% overall bump.

Moving from the very end of chapter 16 one tech into 17 and spending 270 RR spells would increase my sustainable tournament ability by 2% But I'd still be down 8% from my current position at the start of CH 16

Next decision: should I go to the end of chapter 17? The techs this time would give a further 15% bump in squad size.
  • 2 levels of the Merc camp get unlocked an increase of just over 11%, and since the Mercs account for just under 25% of my troop production that works out to 2.75% increased total output.
  • 2 Barracks levels as well, also increasing by 11%. The barracks portion of my troop training is 22%, for 2.4%
  • 2 levels of Training Grounds , also increasing by 11%. The TG portion of my troop training is 18.4%, for 2.0%
Then the T3 factories get a whopping 64% bump in production but again that's accompanied by a 112% increase in pop requirements and a 27% increase in size negating the production boost.

So, by moving "forwards" from the start of 17 to the end my tournament capacity would decrease by close to 8%.

Edit:
I missed the Squad size techs for a 9% bump in AW troop production which account for 14.6% of my output for a further 1.26% increase in total output (total from the start of CH16 to the end of CH17)

From the start of 16 to the end of 17 there's close to a 14.5% total decrease in sustainable tournament ability including the edit above.

Note: This only factors in the penalty from researching mandatory techs. AW upgrades and expansions don't really count since I could do those at any chapter (I'm sitting on a few unplaced already)

It would be "fair" to add expansions as well. you don't place them because of the forumula, so it make sense include them.
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
I calculated the answer so far. Maybe chapter 18 will blow us away and change things, but for now, hell no.

TL;DR:
From the start of 16 to the end of 17 there's close to a 14.5% total decrease in sustainable tournament ability.

https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/3793637fe40e4920b159fededa12bb28/
First choice: to continue in chapter 16 to the end:
The increase in tournament squad size (and therefore losses) from the first tech to the last tech in CH16 is 13%

This chapter unlocks upgrades for the Training grounds from level 24 to 28 which increases its production by 16.8%
I just checked my Beta city and the training grounds are responsible for 18.4% of my troop output with the rest coming from the barracks, Merc, wonders, evos, GoToS and Vallors.
So, that 16.8% bump on 18.4% of my production equals a 3% overall increase.

New levels of workshops and residences also unlock later in the chapter, but those have zero value since the Magic versions are already unlocked at the first tech.

That leaves Tier 2 buildings which can go up from 27 to 31. That gives a production increase of 48% but due to the 25% increase in size and 108% increase in population requirements they actually produce fewer goods per square than at level 27.

By moving "forwards" to the end of chapter 16 my tournament capacity will decrease by about 10%.

Now if I made it that far clearly it would make sense to pop into the next chapter to unlock upgrades for my event buildings and craftables which (assuming I had enough RR spells) would increase their output by about 10%. Those buildings make up around 20% of my production so a 2% overall bump.

Moving from the very end of chapter 16 one tech into 17 and spending 270 RR spells would increase my sustainable tournament ability by 2% But I'd still be down 8% from my current position at the start of CH 16

Next decision: should I go to the end of chapter 17? The techs this time would give a further 15% bump in squad size.
  • 2 levels of the Merc camp get unlocked an increase of just over 11%, and since the Mercs account for just under 25% of my troop production that works out to 2.75% increased total output.
  • 2 Barracks levels as well, also increasing by 11%. The barracks portion of my troop training is 22%, for 2.4%
  • 2 levels of Training Grounds , also increasing by 11%. The TG portion of my troop training is 18.4%, for 2.0%
Then the T3 factories get a whopping 64% bump in production but again that's accompanied by a 112% increase in pop requirements and a 27% increase in size negating the production boost.

So, by moving "forwards" from the start of 17 to the end my tournament capacity would decrease by close to 8%.

Edit:
I missed the Squad size techs for a 9% bump in AW troop production which account for 14.6% of my output for a further 1.26% increase in total output (total from the start of CH16 to the end of CH17)

From the start of 16 to the end of 17 there's close to a 14.5% total decrease in sustainable tournament ability including the edit above.

Note: This only factors in the penalty from researching mandatory techs. AW upgrades and expansions don't really count since I could do those at any chapter (I'm sitting on a few unplaced already)
If i read this correctly, you only go to the start of chapter 16 and dont research up till frog prince? or am i wrong about that?
If thats the case, what makes you decide to only do the start? those last unit upgrades of mercenary camp make a huge difference in my book.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
It would be "fair" to add expansions as well. you don't place them because of the forumula, so it make sense include them.
Adding 2 or 4 expansions of factories including their required support buildings for pop&culture would have a negligible impact, probably a wash or even negative overall.
The best case might be Orc Strats.
TL;DR; Placing the 4 earned expansions from Chapter 16&17 and filling with GotoS would change the 14.5% loss in tournament ability above to about 12%.
How would you calculate them? We know how they negatively affect the formula, but what would I place on them to try and increase my sustainable tournament ability? I suppose the easiest to calculate would be Vallors or GoToS?
2 expansions full of Orc starts would give me about a 2.5% increase in troops while increasing my costs by 15% instead of 13%.
A 0.5% gain for me by placing chapter 16 expansions. (still down 7.5% overall at the start of 17)
Going all the way to the end of 17 and placing all 4 expansions full of GotoS could bump my production by 5% total with a 30.5% penalty instead of 28%
There is a practical limit somewhere on how many Orc Strategists you can use in your troop mix though. Likewise using the space for Vallors would be a bit more efficient in troops/day, but I already have a positive flow of HM troops as they are much less effective than ranged ones.
 

Arthus

Well-Known Member
Ascended Goods appeared in chapter 18 as new type of goods other than normal/sentient.
So we know now why there was 3 last relic bonuses in leaked App screenshot in Summer.
Good luck with place in the city
 

Eilin

Well-Known Member
Ascended Goods appeared in chapter 18 as new type of goods other than normal/sentient.
So we know now why there was 3 last relic bonuses in leaked App screenshot in Summer.
Good luck with place in the city
After all, it was obvious since the third bonuses appeared in the town hall :)
I have a lot of space in the live city, I even have extensive manufactories T7 ready in the inventory ;)
 
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Jammin

Well-Known Member
Adding 2 or 4 expansions of factories including their required support buildings for pop&culture would have a negligible impact, probably a wash or even negative overall.
The best case might be Orc Strats.
TL;DR; Placing the 4 earned expansions from Chapter 16&17 and filling with GotoS would change the 14.5% loss in tournament ability above to about 12%.
How would you calculate them? We know how they negatively affect the formula, but what would I place on them to try and increase my sustainable tournament ability? I suppose the easiest to calculate would be Vallors or GoToS?
2 expansions full of Orc starts would give me about a 2.5% increase in troops while increasing my costs by 15% instead of 13%.
A 0.5% gain for me by placing chapter 16 expansions. (still down 7.5% overall at the start of 17)
Going all the way to the end of 17 and placing all 4 expansions full of GotoS could bump my production by 5% total with a 30.5% penalty instead of 28%
There is a practical limit somewhere on how many Orc Strategists you can use in your troop mix though. Likewise using the space for Vallors would be a bit more efficient in troops/day, but I already have a positive flow of HM troops as they are much less effective than ranged ones.
Before the tournament changes, I had a lot of Ork-Strategist seats and Vallorian pans, I think 20 each, now no longer because they produce too little for the space they take.

For the breadth and depth in which I play tournaments, the Ork-Strategist seats and Vallorian frying pans are a waste of space. It may be useful for some who play up to the province of 30 x5 rounds but in my case another manufactory or armory would be better and more efficiently placed on a new expansion, I don't negotiate a lot but sometimes it's better to do it. (and it's expensive)
 

Jammin

Well-Known Member
Chapter 18 news
New Resources: Ascended Marble, Steel, and Planks.
4 stars get light ranged from the barracks, orc strategists from the training area and drone riders from the mercenary camp.
All military buildings + armory get an additional upgrade level again.
... Changes possible
 

Deleted User - 89508

Guest
@SoggyShorts please be nicer in your replies.
Or say nothing at all because those comments do not add to the conversation

Seriously?? Soggy, Crazywizard- (Etc, Etc).... a few people are Shouting From the Rooftops...
(as Politely as Possible).... The New Tournament actually Punishes Achievement!!!

Its Regressive- the more you advance, the worse you Do!!

A Majority have not yet started down the Regression slope, and they seem slow to Understand- but it is Real, and it is Unavoidable.
It affects EVERYTHING... It affects new Chapters, New Events, new Prizes... all future plans and Motivation.
It seems Soggy.. (Everyone, really!).. have been quite polite in their references to it.
(IMHO)

Unless...
"Doesnt add to the Conversation" refers to conversation of those who dont yet know how screwed they are... ?
(=they are not yet talking about it...SO... warning them is "Not Nice"??)

Man.. my next reference will include "Hip Waders", so-
best just sign out... check back in a few days, see if ive been banned, or cancelled, or something... (IDFC)...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jammin

Well-Known Member
Next Event News
Ashen Phoenix
Mana - 22400
T5 - 4320
2KP - 24 hours
Population - 4160
Culture - 4960
Feeding Effect: Bonus event currency for event quests, the duration of the feeding effect is 33 days, at the 10th level the bonus is 0.020 times the currency amount for the quest.

Changes possible
2ddada364ab3.png
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I wonder how the feeding effect works...
2% of the quest reward is going to be between 0.96 and 1.48 so rounded to...?
Either way, it doesn't seem to be very impactful.
Is it just the main quests of the 50 candy log in bonus too? (making it 51)
 

Jammin

Well-Known Member
I wonder how the feeding effect works...
2% of the quest reward is going to be between 0.96 and 1.48 so rounded to...?
Either way, it doesn't seem to be very impactful.
Is it just the main quests of the 50 candy log in bonus too? (making it 51)
Yup, like always peanuts, I have no idea who to ask to get a bird that gives bonus life points. :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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