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Discussion Runeshard Changes

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Guess @SoggyShorts was faster. To correct mistakes in net0 seems really easy to me @Alcaro what would be the problem there? Someone got x-kps less than he/she should, just give em x-kps back - done.
Yup. And it's very rare anyways 14 mistakes of over contributing 5 KP since October. Not bad for ~250 wonders.
Really we could just ignore them since it's almost always 5 KP and the usual response is "Don't worry about paying me back, I don't care"
 

Jammin

Well-Known Member
Again, in net0 it doesn't matter who grabs which chest because they don't profit off chests. That's why it's called Net0.
If "an intruder" puts 70 KP into my wonder, then my fellows simply let him have the 70 KP chest (40KP + 2 runes).
It's not hard.

You can make a profit in Net0. Strangers contribute best to this. If the stranger pays in 70 as in your example, he is outbid with 1kp, he falls on a bottom box which may only be worth half as much, as soon as the remaining boxes are occupied the minus of the stranger is your profit.
 

Alcaro

Well-Known Member
Yup. And it's very rare anyways 14 mistakes of over contributing 5 KP since October. Not bad for ~250 wonders.
Really we could just ignore them since it's almost always 5 KP and the usual response is "Don't worry about paying me back, I don't care"
That isn't a correction, is just someone who gives up on some KPs instead of complicating his/ her life.
Anyway, keep praising Net0, it appears that's all you can do while you can't accept the fact that is not perfect as any other of exchange system is.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Yup. And it's very rare anyways 14 mistakes of over contributing 5 KP since October. Not bad for ~250 wonders.
Really we could just ignore them since it's almost always 5 KP and the usual response is "Don't worry about paying me back, I don't care"
I think our FS did over 300 AW levels since the rune change, what, a week ago?
 

SyreArca

Ex-Team Member
Let's get back on topic to the Runeshard Changes please.
Every fellowship can make their own decisions on knowledge point exchange systems, should they choose to.
This is not the thread to debate them.
Thank you. :)
 

ayvinul

Well-Known Member
You could build any AW which you don't want in your city and then sell it straight away, then you can use the full circle to make a new rune for that now empty AW.
Right... I've know that little trick for ages. It does require: free space, ressources, time to wait for the wonder to build... it's definitely not fun.
 

tharkun

New Member
That's a very nice change ! Now there's something that would actually complement it: make it possible to convert broken fragments into a full runeshard even when the circle is actually complete already.

Right now, on most cities, I get ~10 broken fragments a week (or more), that I can do nothing with, because all my current wonders have "full circles" (or are built) and the "convert to runeshard" facility is greyed out.
I agree that this is a GREAT change! (I have LOTS of Rune Shards that are doing nothing.)

However, as for Broken Shards, perhaps they could also be utilised in this manner? Perhaps 1 Broken Shard could produce 1 Knowledge Point when donated?
 

Skillpowers

Well-Known Member
I agree that this is a GREAT change! (I have LOTS of Rune Shards that are doing nothing.)

However, as for Broken Shards, perhaps they could also be utilised in this manner? Perhaps 1 Broken Shard could produce 1 Knowledge Point when donated?
well you could also stop using runes now to fill up wonders and only use broken shards. that will probally be the new meta for people that are active in tournements.
 

Sprite1313

Member
well you could also stop using runes now to fill up wonders and only use broken shards. that will probally be the new meta for people that are active in tournements.
Or if you got lucky on timing, with an event like this where one of the chests gave a reward of 10 broken shards - not too helpful 99% of the time, but it would be great if you had an AW at the rune stage.
 

Avocado

Well-Known Member
thanks for explaining net0, @Karvest :) and how it can be adjusted to the new rune exchange. Hmm...maybe we should change our chain system for net0 as teh mail chain truely gets tilted too much with the rune exchange. Though I think a little tilt rewarding active and contributing players vs. passive ones in a fellowship with a wide variance in activity and tournament contribution is actually fair.

I can see @Yogi Dave 's point in the difficulty of explaining new systems to a typical average live server FS. Of course it is easy in a high achieving FS most likely full of math affictionados, but I remember someone absolutely failing in the trial of explaining net0 (had another name there) to an FS in spite of quite clear and long explanation mails (hard work). Can easily lead to chaos, hurt feelings etc.

This HAS to do with the new rune exchange, because it does look like FS will have to adjust their wonder systems.

In spite of these disadvantages, I do enjoy the charm, the air of change and the wealth that comes with it :).

Also I noticed that in the app, that it is easy to mistakenly touch the runes button, when adding KP to other players wonders. I have sacrificed valuable runes of new wonders this way and messed up a quickfill....Maybe this could be solved in a more foolsafe way.
 

Rill

Active Member
Indeed. I wonder how many players actually know how the formula works. I suspect hundreds(thousands?) of players could be thrilled at gaining 5-10 levels for each wonder and then question why they are running out of goods and troops halfway through the week.

This is absolutely true based on the larger players in my fellowship. They add city expansions and wonder levels like crazy and complain about not being able to get to the top of the Spire because it's too expensive. Meanwhile I have a tiny city and one AW and climb to the top with ease. But they won't listen to me when I tell them why.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@Rill Big cities basicaly have no other chance in Spire than fighting (using the boost building combo for 2 Spires). I myself made this decision some time ago - to switch from negotiating to fighting in Spire because of that.
 

Rill

Active Member
@Rill Big cities basicaly have no other chance in Spire than fighting (using the boost building combo for 2 Spires). I myself made this decision some time ago - to switch from negotiating to fighting in Spire because of that.

The fighting could nevertheless be less costly if people didn't expand their cities to the maximum size and invest in Wonders that don't benefit them (such as the wonders that boost rank for people who are not competing for rank). I think if people understood the effect this has, they would make different choices. Because the tradeoff is not made clear anywhere, people make decisions that ultimately frustrate them and make them think the game is harder than it is (or could be).
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
The fighting could nevertheless be less costly if people didn't expand their cities to the maximum size and invest in Wonders that don't benefit them (such as the wonders that boost rank for people who are not competing for rank). I think if people understood the effect this has, they would make different choices. Because the tradeoff is not made clear anywhere, people make decisions that ultimately frustrate them and make them think the game is harder than it is (or could be).
Beside it's not clear, it's also backwards. a game is about personal development not about restraint.
Playing and developing on a dime might be fun for people like me. but it makes no sense overall.

It's like playing and RPG and after gaining half the levels they tell you to not put in more development points in your character because it makes it worse. that doesnt make any sense.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
The fighting could nevertheless be less costly if people didn't expand their cities to the maximum size and invest in Wonders that don't benefit them (such as the wonders that boost rank for people who are not competing for rank). I think if people understood the effect this has, they would make different choices. Because the tradeoff is not made clear anywhere, people make decisions that ultimately frustrate them and make them think the game is harder than it is (or could be).
A lot of us had very developed cities before Inno changed the way tourney squad sizes were created. How do you go backwards? And why would you? I play the game for the chapters and progressing. The tourneys are one of the things that help with that, plus the fun of being on page 1 of the world tourney scores. Almost all of my AWs good for tourneys are at level 30 or 31, so nothing much to help with that. However, there are other AWs that will help with the city. It's a drag that working on them and doing techs and growing my city will make fighting more difficult. Like @CrazyWizard said, "it makes no sense overall".
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
A lot of us had very developed cities before Inno changed the way tourney squad sizes were created. How do you go backwards? And why would you? I play the game for the chapters and progressing. The tourneys are one of the things that help with that, plus the fun of being on page 1 of the world tourney scores. Almost all of my AWs good for tourneys are at level 30 or 31, so nothing much to help with that. However, there are other AWs that will help with the city. It's a drag that working on them and doing techs and growing my city will make fighting more difficult. Like @CrazyWizard said, "it makes no sense overall".
If this runeshard to kp was a long term plan, I can see why they so drastically downgraded the tournament, but they didn't consider that they also downgraded the AWs that require spells to work. They got an excessively punitively downgrade for access to spells, and then there's the hit for the higher squad size, so it was a double hit. Most people have so many spells, it goes unnoticed, but with the level of access to spells if you actually use the AW that need them, they are under powered because the tournament changes cut off access to the spells they require, and like all the other AWs they also got hit with the penalty for half the benefit from level 30 on.

And what a joke the monitoring on beta was. People had abundant everything and some were depleting those resources to try and keep up. Who wants to be a long term player and stripped down to a newbie because of poorly thought out actually good ideas. I think the runeshard to kp is a good idea, but not worth harming fundamental parts of the game that sooo many people say isn't fun anymore.

The tournament steepness is too high, the AW penalty is too high and the penalty for placing premium expansions is too high. A square root, or even a radical root, like x^.6 would tamper down the increasing penalty so the game is no longer regressive. And then reducing the steepness on how fast the tournament ramps up in difficulty.

From province 10 the difficult goes up by 4.5% and 3% would be better, and from province 17 it is 3.6%, and 2.0% would be better, and just leave it at 2.0%. The breakeven with what we have would be around province 60, but the difficulty at province 34 would be 167% instead of 202% and at province 50 would be 199% instead of 218% and would breakeven around province 60, and then be steeper than current design, well, from province 35 it would be steeper, but less difficult until province 60. It is just way too steep in this part of the game.
 
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