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Discussion Runeshard Changes

galrond

Well-Known Member
If I upgrade my level 3 monastery even more with this system I can forget to do the spire in a fighting way and the tournament beyond number 5 will also become extremely difficult to fight.
Even now I already have a problem to fight in the spire after the first 2 ghosts and I am just in chapter 5.
So with a broken system on those parts of the game it is a no go for me.
Pardon my french: But how the heck will giving your troops more health make the fights harder o_O It´s the other way around.

@Marindor Now would be an excellent time to restrict KP donations. Only players within a FS or discovered (1-way?) should be allowed to donate to each other's wonders
This is by far the most effective way to reduce boosting: Be in FS together, or be close on the map.
The first you can do something about, the second you can´t.

@Alcaro please DON'T fill up my monastery or Golden Abyss.
I noticed this spire and tournament, I have trouble fighting.
The difficult calculator Inno put in the game to make it harder is so broken that I can't handle any more levels in the 2 wonders I have.
Golden Abbys level 8 and Monastery level 3 and I can fight the first 2 ghosts at the spire and nothing more.
I also can fight the first 5 province of the tournament and the rest I have to buy.
They should really check their formulas and adjust them for lower level players.
You´re not required to upgrade, just because you can ;)

This is a very welcome update. Since I havent seen it mentioned yet the amount of kp you can receive is tied to the amount of kp you have donated. You cant have one person receiving thousands of kp from others without donating some too, at least not in one day. It isnt much of a limit at some hundreds of kp but it does exist. Maybe this is innos way to stop push accounts?
Is this something, that you have tried out yourself? Or is it something you have been told? A lot of urban legends are passed as rocksolid facts.
I have never heard about such a limit before. But that doesn´t mean, that it´s not there :cool:

Don't mess KP for research with AWKP generated from these runeshards.
Ofc. you can´t say AWKP = KP. But without "regular" KP my wonders would get nowhere.
So indirectly getting AWKP from shards, will further my research, when they can replace KP in my wonders.

@little bee
6th round is a killer (beside the other). I usually stop latest at 10th province after the 2nd round, this means no runes for me. If I insist doing, let's say 20-30 provinces x 6 rounds, this will imply using (read slaughtering) an enormous amount of troops and/ or goods. Those troops aren't a gift, I have costs to get them. So, I think I would be entitled to some sort of compensation for all the hard work.

Also, another aspect of this feature is the amount of available runes. End players have a lot of them due to years of playing and doing tourny. Let's not start again the debate about how beginners should be equal with old timers. They shouldn't. Period.
I think, that you´re refering to the old tournament. 6th round in a low province shouldn`t be more of a killer, than 1st round in a high province. It can be hard to make 6 rounds due to cooldown between rounds. But that´s an entirely other matter ;)
I agree with you on "beginners shouldn´t be equal with oldtimers".
New players should be able to minimize the gap as they progress, but not to fast.
I just can´t get a hold on what the balance is now. When you read the treads, some ppl say: "It´s way to hard for new players. INNO is scaring them away". Then the next post says: "it´s way to hard for old players. INNO is driving them away". It seems like the only thing ppl can agree on, it that INNO is pushing players away. But they can´t agree on what´s wrong.

All of my 3 cities are currently standing at the end of a chapter.
The reason for this is, that I want to level my (military) wonders. I was having way to much trouble fighting in spire/tournament. I´m already seeing a big difference in my main city.
When/if this hits live, then I can upgrade pretty fast, and soon resume my research. That´s good I guess, but I can´t help feeling sorry for those, who worked hard to upgrade their wonders.
I welcome a reason to do round 6 in tournament in province 10+, other than scoring points to FS. As it is now, theres NO personal gain from doing them :mad:
 

Potvorisko

Well-Known Member
I like this new feature, it will make the game more interesting. Sure, I have potential of almost 200.000 kp in my live city, but most of it, I will never be able to spent. Some AW are built very rarely or on the other hand, some of them are already maxed. So, it will be absolutely all right
 

Moncsociusz

Well-Known Member
I think this is an amazing update! It makes the tourney more worthwhile to go for the end stars. Finally I'm not going to curse when I got a rune from events. And would definitely boost the KP trade. I love this nice touch that you can give a higher value if you put it to others' wonder. So runes are pretty valuable this way and old players could get a use out of those stored up ones as well

But I would definitely rebalance the AW levels in the fighting algorithm. Lot of players going to improve now, but they could unexpectedly struggle much more and you can't teleport AWs yet. So if not rebalanced, this can be a bit bitter sweet for some. Until now people could gradually adjust, so it was not that bad, but with this people could gain levels in crazy pace. (What I like) but I'm afraid of the fighting algorithm would break their spirits as a lot of endgame players. I don't dare to level up my wonders anymore.
 

maxiqbert

Well-Known Member
Hi guys,

Thank you all for your feedback so far. As for your questions about if the Runeshards also counts towards the AW FA Badge and (event) quests requiring you to spend/donate KP, we double checked and they should indeed count towards these requirements.
is the anomaly for different runes for elves and humans going to be corrected?
 
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Hazel Caballus

Well-Known Member
As some of you are afraid that long-term players with huge stockpiles of runes could make a big jump ahead (and thus might hit the wall, i.e. reach the point where wonder levels are detrimental to tournament performance instead of being beneficial), I had the idea that Inno could introduce a limit regarding the maximal number of runes one could store for each wonder. Maybe something like 200 runes (or you can make up another reasonable amount). Excess runes would be cut off when the update is introduced.
Would this cause too many complaints from dedicated long-term players or would they accept it as being a reasonable way to slightly level the field?
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
As some of you are afraid that long-term players with huge stockpiles of runes could make a big jump ahead (and thus might hit the wall, i.e. reach the point where wonder levels are detrimental to tournament performance instead of being beneficial), I had the idea that Inno could introduce a limit regarding the maximal number of runes one could store for each wonder. Maybe something like 200 runes (or you can make up another reasonable amount). Excess runes would be cut off when the update is introduced.
Would this cause too many complaints from dedicated long-term players or would they accept it as being a reasonable way to slightly level the field?

As long as you can make the troops needed to fill the increased squad sizes, none of this is detrimental for tournament or Spire fighting because none of this changes the difficulty. But this makes catering more expensive, so negotiators are still punished for too many AW levels or expansions.
 

Bor de Wolf 1965

Well-Known Member
I checked and rechecked and I figured out why the tournament and spire has become way harder as I expected.
I just unlocked chapter 5 so spire fights will give you 2 star opponents while your troops are mostly 1 star so I will loose even if I set up the right soldiers for the fight.
With the tournament a similar problem, yes I get bigger troop sizes so if I loose 50% or more on any troop, I loose more soldiers while my production levels stay the same. end result, I can not fight as much as I did before and have to buy the fights.

So I think I am just in a spot that every fight just asks 50% more from me while I only increase 5% and that is at this moment just a little bit to much.
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
@Alcaro please DON'T fill up my monastery or Golden Abyss.
I noticed this spire and tournament, I have trouble fighting.
The difficult calculator Inno put in the game to make it harder is so broken that I can't handle any more levels in the 2 wonders I have.
Golden Abbys level 8 and Monastery level 3 and I can fight the first 2 ghosts at the spire and nothing more.
I also can fight the first 5 province of the tournament and the rest I have to buy.
They should really check their formulas and adjust them for lower level players.

To clarify, filling up your AWs doesn't change the tourney/spire costs. Levelling them up changes the costs. You control whether or not you hit the upgrade button. If they are full and awaiting an upgrade, that doesn't cost you a thing.

As a second (unrelated) note, levels in the monastery should decrease your losses through the benefits more than the squad sizes increase, leading to a net decrease in losses, even with the penalty.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I checked and rechecked and I figured out why the tournament and spire has become way harder as I expected.
I just unlocked chapter 5 so spire fights will give you 2 star opponents while your troops are mostly 1 star so I will loose even if I set up the right soldiers for the fight.
You will hit a few of these spikes along the way in the early&mid chapters where it definitely gets harder before it gets easier.
The key is to push on to that next troops upgrade and to level good wonders (mm, training speed, and unit damage)
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
An additional benefit wil be that people use shards to level up there wonders. then hit a 5 level barrier without shards left and are stuck so spend some diamonds to unluck the next level.
Looks thike there is a buisness idea behind this change as well ;)
 

slide

Well-Known Member
An additional benefit wil be that people use shards to level up there wonders. then hit a 5 level barrier without shards left and are stuck so spend some diamonds to unluck the next level.
Looks thike there is a buisness idea behind this change as well ;)
I thought that could have been one of the reasons for the change, I'm very suspicious when Inno makes a change which appears to be beneficial as I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop.

It is extremely dangerous for small cities which haven't been playing for long to get involved in this as its easy to get carried away, for instance my smallest city on live is in Dwarves, I have a lvl 14 GA and 42 rune shards. It wouldn't take using many of them to make it difficult to get lvl 15 done and of course every AW will be in the same position for all those other small cities out there.

My view of Inno is that they give with one hand but take back twice as much with the other hand.
 

Angeduciel

Well-Known Member
I welcome this change very much. I have been playing the game for many years and even though I am a fairly active player in tourneys, I still find it hard to upgrade my wonders to their max level. This gives me hope that I can have a few wonders close to level 30/35 in less then 5 years :)
 

Avocado

Well-Known Member
I like it, because it levels my wonders faster and I think it is a nice incentive for people to play tournament round nr. 6. And it also offers the possibility to support younger members with KP donations in their wonders.

I really wish that runeshards - especially from the Sanctuary and Martial Monastry (and the other ones who have different names/symbols/buildings in elven vs. humans) could be exchangable in this case, as it is a central wonder often used.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
This whole plan is to try and convince that the Enar's embassy isn't really useless, lol.
It has been useless for a long time.
Even for points, since an armory lv 41 gives you already 25% more points than a lv 35 Embassy.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I really wish that runeshards - especially from the Sanctuary and Martial Monastry (and the other ones who have different names/symbols/buildings in elven vs. humans) could be exchangable in this case, as it is a central wonder often used.
I am sure that I have fill sanctuary chests in my game play, so I should have those runes.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Something new?
1642786257910.png
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
One thing about this change, I'd say I haven't had so much game fun in a very long time, but the problem is that I probably only have 20 to 40 more AW levels that interest me because of the totally messed up and regressive game formula, and I'd actually like to store some of what I do have because of how utterly stupid the formula for how leveling AWs affects the game. I deleted some, and that just the most messed up thing going, EVER!

My idea about using a square root on the number of AW levels really is a good idea because the penalty for each AW level is getting worse the more AW levels you get and it should be BETTER all the way through.
 

galrond

Well-Known Member
I thought that could have been one of the reasons for the change, I'm very suspicious when Inno makes a change which appears to be beneficial as I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop.

It is extremely dangerous for small cities which haven't been playing for long to get involved in this as its easy to get carried away, for instance my smallest city on live is in Dwarves, I have a lvl 14 GA and 42 rune shards. It wouldn't take using many of them to make it difficult to get lvl 15 done and of course every AW will be in the same position for all those other small cities out there.

My view of Inno is that they give with one hand but take back twice as much with the other hand.
Don´t blame INNO if players makes stupid mistakes.
After all it´s common knowledge, that L1, 6, 11, 16, 21, and 26 use runes and goods to upgrade, and the rest (up to 30) use KP and relics to upgrade :cool:
If unaware of this, then (as one of the few things) upgrade costs of wonders is pretty well discribed in wiki.
If ppl. choose not to read it, and get burned.... That´s on themselves, and hopefully they learn from it.

It´s far worse, that there´s hidden mecanics as the squadsize formula.
As contrast to the majority here on forum, I don´t oppose the formula itself. I think its growth is too steap, but the idea is ok.
I DO oppose, that the impacting elements are secret or at least poorly described. That deprive players their right to make educated choices :mad:

I have made my share of bad choices, that set me back. That´s part of the game, and part of the fun.
If your choises and actions (good and bad) didn´t have an inpact on the game, then you could as well watch a movie instead ;)
 
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