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Discussion Runeshard Changes

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Sprite1313

Member
Screenshot 2022-01-21 141842.png


I'd agree with the 1, 6, 11, 16, etc. I think that is sort of an issue of semantics. You are sitting in level 5 when you insert your runes. So, upgrading to 6 is what actually costs runes and supplies.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Anyone know where this caps out? I wonder if it is per donator, or recipient?
I don't know. I know I dumps a bunch of runes that I have a lot of into that player one way and it makes me wonder it is a cap or balance thing. I think we've had players that have gone very crazy with nothing happening.

And then I do believe a player that was trying to do an exchange couldn't... my bad, lol.
 

Alcaro

Well-Known Member
Anyone know where this caps out? I wonder if it is per donator, or recipient?
I visited one of my friends and saw what was posted in that attachment, so, I said to donate to other wonders even he didn't put a KP in them.
This is what I found:
Beta runes-XP.jpg


Soooo ... it seems there is a capped donation amount per total (all wonders of a recipient) not per wonder or per donor because my donations were modest, not more than 2 runes (30 KPs) at several wonders. Most of those wonders had also another donor with 1 rune. I would say that a total of 3 runes (45KP) > only 2 chests claimed > can't be considered "a lot"! Only if you add up all my donations and of the other donor can explain that "a lot". Since the red text says to come back again another time I will try again later and see if I am still restricted or not.
My question is how long this cool-down time takes because I can't believe it will be this way and prevent players to claim all chests.
 
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Karvest

Well-Known Member
Looks like this is a separate feature "knowledge_credit" which is like social credit - to receive KP to your AW from other players you should donate your own KP to them.
As far as I can observe - there is some starting credit which is increased by 80 every day. (now inactive city on beta has 2740KP limit)
Once you donate to other player's AW (using KP/AWKP/runeshards_converted_to_KP), your credit increases by amount you've donated.
Once you finished research phase of your AW, all AWKP granted to other players from your chests rewards also increases your credit.
Once you receive KP/AWKP/runeshardes_converted_to_KP from other player to your AW or receive AWKP as a chest reward from other player's finished AW, your credit is decreased by amount you've got.
If it become 0 - you won't be able to receive any donation to your AWs until you donate KP to someone or get your free 80KP daily limit increase (triggered at the time when resources decay).

Finally Inno came up with working anti-pushing solution.
That will also affect all unfair KP exchange systems if you are consistently making profit from them.
The only thing you can get from other players to increase the speed of AW leveling over the fair exchange is runeshards from reward chests.

EDIT: Added info about daily limit increase.
 
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Alcaro

Well-Known Member
Looks like this is a separate feature "knowledge_credit" which is like social credit - to receive KP to your AW from other players you should donate your own KP to them.
As far as I can observe - starting credit is something like 2660KP.
Once you donate to other player's AW (using KP/AWKP/runeshards_converted_to_KP), your credit increases by amount you've donated.
Once you receive KP/AWKP/runeshardes_converted_to_KP from other player to your AW or receive AWKP as a chest reward from other player's finished AW, your credit is decreased by amount you've got.
If it become 0 - you won't be able to receive any donation to your AWs until you donate KP to someone..
If I understand your logic, it means this issue can be alleviated for those who are using WS System, since there we donate far faaaar more than we get back from chests ... and it's another nail in Net0's coffin and I'm afraid also to Swap threads. Am I right?
You say if it becomes 0 I can't receive until I donate again. OK, then when I am prevented from donating?
EDIT: I checked another friend and there I can donate even though I gave her a substantial amount of KPs already. So, the red text isn't related to my donations but the amount the other player received. Is this info changing you statement?

Finally Inno came up with working anti-pushing solution. But there is a side effect - it also prevents AW hunting in a long run.
That is a terrible side effect. Again they throwed the baby out with the bathwater.

EDIT 2: Is there anywhere mentioned this equation? How players should know when their donation to other players vs. receiving donation from others is balanced or au contraire?
 
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Alcaro

Well-Known Member
If all what @Karvest said it's true, then the system is crooked. Are we going to start using pen and paper every time we donate or receive KPs from others (direct in wonders, or indirect as KP instants from Chests) just to keep the balance up??
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
There is some sort of airbag which helps to level out small misbalances - spent runeshards are counted while received aren't, so when you are using runeshards_to_KP conversion when donating others, you increase your knowledge credit for free.


net0 is working ok with it as it is a fair system.
just not sure, including runeshards in costs of reward chests covered by donations may corrupt net0 balance for those who are not active in helping others and just post their own AWs.

May be some other ways to increase knowledge credit exist (like increasing it over the time), idk.
 

Alcaro

Well-Known Member
There is some sort of airbag which helps to level out small misbalances - spent runeshards are counted while received aren't, so when you are using runeshards_to_KP conversion when donating others, you increase your knowledge credit for free.


net0 is working ok with it as it is a fair system.
just not sure, including runeshards in costs of reward chests covered by donations may corrupt net0 balance for those who are not active in helping others and just post their own AWs.

May be some other ways to increase knowledge credit exist (like increasing it over the time), idk.
as someone who used Net0 I can say that most of the time the contributors are pretty much the same. Is not about not wanting to be active is about the system which - with this new feature - becomes profoundly corrupted. There are always X contributors for X chests, so that's really hard to be contributor with such a limited amount of chests.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
Is there anywhere mentioned this equation? How players should know when their donation to other players vs. receiving donation from others is balanced or au contraire?
It is received by client along with other player AW research phases (can't see own, for you it's always -1 or you won't be able to donate to your own AW=).
1642815051602.png
I guess it would be shown somewhere in UI later.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
hm... thought a bit more... net0 is fair for that system from the "helpers" point of view, but AW owner only receive AWKP and go out of balance unless finishing AW also increases knowledge credit for amount of AWKP in chests. Can't check it now, but if it isn't - every KP sharing system would suffer.

ADD: Just checked, when you finish research phase of your AW, all AWKP received by other players from your reward chests increase your KP limit, so it is not an issue for fair swap systems.
 
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Alcaro

Well-Known Member
we came (again) to the point where I say ... Oh! I like the purple fonts! :D
Looking in the game files isn't an option for the most of the players.

Is it possible, for once, to have the whole freaking information about a new feature???? Why people should dig in the game files or play trial/ error game while banging their heads against a wall when they can't donate or can't receive KPs and will think the game is bugged????
It's NOT NORMAL!!!! It's like selling a product without the User Manual!!
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
I guess they wanted to know how fast we will hit the wall.=)
User manual would be ready when it comes to live servers. (live server already supports this feature, it just sends "unlimited credit" to everyone).
 

Alcaro

Well-Known Member
I try to recall where I've read the "user manual" aka the formula of the new tourny ... oh wait! I didn't cuz all we know it's thanks to some players who did their best to figure it out.
Anyway, I hope you will find out more about this new feature and will share it with us :)
 

Sprite1313

Member
If all what @Karvest said it's true, then the system is crooked. Are we going to start using pen and paper every time we donate or receive KPs from others (direct in wonders, or indirect as KP instants from Chests) just to keep the balance up??
Don't be silly. This is going to require Excel with complex formulas to track...;)
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
This seems like an incredibly complicated system and i think just requiring a player to fill half their AW would accomplish about the same and leave some wiggle room for if there is a desire to help lower level players in a FS.
 
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