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Discussion Royal Restoration Spell

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Marindor, Dec 18, 2018.

  1. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Any timeline on this re-evaluation?
     
  2. Marindor

    Marindor
    Community Manager
    Elvenar Team

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    No, we're not going to rush this :) When everyone's back in the office, we're going to take the time to thoroughly investigate all the feedback and data and when we come to a conclusion, we'll let you know :)
     
    Golden Awaken, Angeduciel and Syonis like this.
  3. EdwardTrunk

    EdwardTrunk New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2019
    Not rushing it doesn't mean that a timescale for making a decision and implementing it can't be announced. Many of us are at the point where we need to make decisions about what to do what our existing event buildings and the RR spell is already well past the date it was initially promised.
     
  4. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Ok, so I did a weight analysis of what I know diamond players did in their consideration to purchase magic buildings in the first place. I know players did an unweighted calculation, (16+24)/2 to get 20, but there is way more residences than workshops so the weighted average of about 18 is the fairest to players who purchased magic buildings based on an existing upgrade rate. It is also very true that players gradually add more magic buildings so a simply weighted average by chapter is completely unrealistic picture of true weighted upgrading costs.

    Having said this, a suggestion by one of the players in my group was a request that if blueprints are to be so completely downgraded, put out the next chapter first, make an announcement that you have until x date to use blueprints and at that time they will be converted to restoration spells at xyz ratio.

    I'm still hoping for a more representative conversion ratio so the expected value of blueprints is maintained.

    I also think it is fair to increase the difficulty to get them through the tournament by making more chests. The dust tournament is considered to be one of the more difficult tournaments and looking on elvenstats at the servers listed I count 71 teams that got 50k (or within a couple hundred of 50k) or better. I counted 15 teams over 60k or within very easy reach of 60k (no team within 2-3% of 60k would not do it if there was a reason to do so,) and 6 teams at 65k.

    I counted 524 teams, or about 13,000 players that would have earned a blueprint with the 40k score between all servers on what is considered a difficult tournament. I tend to think this is far more blueprints then was ever intended.

    I would much rather see a fair conversion, the ability to continue to earn that conversion through the tournament, and an adjustment to the tournament instead. Bring on an 11th and 12th chest.

    So, if you went for the 18:1 conversion and say 12 chests to 60k points, I'd do 4:5:6 in the last 3 chests and just make it so only 3 are available in the earlier chests.

    You'd have 524 teams capable of earning 7 spells, 71 teams capable of earning 12 spells, and 15 teams capable of earning 18 spells, and these numbers would go up somewhat.
     
  5. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    LoL so everyone except 15 teams globally still gets screwed with your idea... Let me take a wild guess here: If I look at those 15 teams, will I find your city?
    375 players go from 11 to 18 RR, but over 13,000 now only get 7 instead of the 11 on the first launch.
    You basically break even from BP to RR, but almost everyone else in the world losses 60%...:rolleyes:

    Seriously, how selfish can you get?
     
  6. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    I am pretty sure for the first 3-4 months or so of the new tournaments it was only 15 teams globally, or even less that was getting blueprints and I was in one of those teams. I am also sure that you could plot a steady increase in the number of teams getting the blueprints globally over time.

    You could can absolutely prove what I'm saying is true by just looking at the progression of the tournament. There was not 13,000 players earning blueprints each week when it started and I find it unlikely that you would find that level of winning blueprints in Inno's projections anywhere. It is kind of royal screw-up in terms of an economic model for the game, and probably why the value for the blueprints is being considered for such a high slaughter.

    Further, they came up with 11 in the tournament, and 71 teams, about 1800 players, would get 12 with what I'm suggesting, and probably another 2000 players have the capacity to get 12 at least some weeks.

    I actually support the game considerably and you support it zero, other than being highly opinionated about destroying any kind of value for people that do support the game, you make it your mission and pretty much have bragging rights about not spending a dime and you call me selfish. You need a mirror.


     
    silvia likes this.
  7. qaccy

    qaccy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    I personally just want to finally have the ability to upgrade event buildings. I can understand people wanting Inno to somehow convert BPs over to RR spells at a 'perfect' amount despite ever-increasing sizes for magic buildings, even if that desire sounds more than a little unreasonable to me. Just like when scouting was changed, event buildings were originally rebalanced, heck, even the bell spire/lighthouse change, this is something that's being done with an eye on the future of a game that's now much larger (and longer) than when this feature was originally implemented.
     
    SoggyShorts and Mykan like this.
  8. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    I'm pretty sure you are wrong and there were 2-3 FS per server getting them right away, and with 20 regions and multiple servers per, that's close to 200 which went up to 520 over time.
    It is a much much bigger jump to go up to 60,000 tournament points.
    Maybe that's hard for you to see?
    p2w stairs.png
    200,000,000 registered players from inno's 7 games
    Elvenar is second biggest, so let's say 20%
    40,000,000 registered Elvenar players
    Let's assume 99% are abandoned cities
    400,000 Elvenar players
    And you think 13,000 BP is a major screw up?
    375 would be better, right?
    0.1% of players seems like a good idea to you?:rolleyes:

    HA!
    Just because I don't care about a broken P2W ranking doesn't make your opinion more important than mine. As for supporting the game, I would argue that I have contributed just as much as you if not more to the game. I've made calculators and guides, had my suggestions to the devs implemented, ran the Beta test for Elvenstats, helped coach players and answered questions for over 6,000 posts on the US forums and over 2,000 here.

    Meanwhile, you sit there finding ways to make the game better for just you and a handful of "Elites". Disgusting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
    PrimroseSylvia likes this.
  9. silvia

    silvia Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2017
    STOP
    The idea of uploading the buildings of the event is the worst idea in the history of the game, simply by playing the first event, winning a building, going up the level, I will no longer need to play events, so what to do? ? with uploading what I have I do not need to play to win more

    I, for my part, will never play again neither to tournaments nor events, so I avoid bad ideas and I can enjoy my city, , I will be slower ?? I'll be slower, but I'm not in a hurry either
     
  10. Marindor

    Marindor
    Community Manager
    Elvenar Team

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    Hi guys,

    Please stop throwing mud at each other and let's get back to the subject itself instead of the person behind the posts. Thank you :)
     
  11. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    25x200=5000 people and they all stayed quiet about getting blueprints for 3 months?

    It was 2 months before people started bragging about making 10 chests and I can't see 5000 people remaining quiet about it, especially with all the discussion about how close FS were getting. I had a several blueprints before I saw a post bragging about making 10 chests.

     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  12. Heymrdiedier

    Heymrdiedier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    can we keep it about royal restoration and not about personal achievements and bragging rights? I also have 80+ BP in my inventory waiting (on live) but who cares about that anyway.

    ive been waiting an begging for the BP change for 2 years, really an extra month wait is nothing. No point in giving more suggestions till we see what they come up with now. Most of us allready gave our good ideas, and after that they said, we'll work on it.
    So im sure the second draft will be much better, but ofcourse not everyone will be happy.

    We've been talking about it in my FS and we think they will keep the BP for magic residences. If it will still be in the 10th chest or if you need to craft it in the magic academy with 10 RR or soemthing else, we dont know or care about.
    They will add some new RR in early chests, but it wouldnt suprise us if they add 2 extra tournament chests either.

    Anyway, lots of idea, but all pointless to discuss at this point.
     
    Mykan likes this.
  13. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    94 blueprints possible, so your story fits into what I'm saying, fellowships were not getting BPs right away. When people started to get all 10 chests, they started talking about it.

    I am not making this about bragging rights, but I am saying that I think the tournament has turned out to be far easier to get all 10 chests than what Inno projected, and I think they are trying to fix that by reducing the value of blueprints, which I think will result in a huge decline in diamond spending.

     
  14. Heymrdiedier

    Heymrdiedier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    102 actually, 23 jan 2017 was the update that changed tournament into fs tournament
     
    PrimroseSylvia likes this.
  15. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Stayed quiet? Are you on the Russian forums? The Dutch? The Spanish? This game is played in 20 regions.
    You said it yourself, "I had several BP before I saw a post bragging"
    I'll bet that many others "had several BP before they saw a post bragging"?
    In fact, you and I know for 100% certainty that 24 others in your FS alone had several BPs before "you saw a post bragging."

    You seem to be holding 2 positions here:
    1. It was very rare for any FS to get blueprints (implies that getting a group together to get 40,000 points is hard)
    2. There are far too many FS getting blueprints now (implies that getting a group together to get 40,000 points is easy)
    Those can't both be true.

    These are the more equitable suggestions I've seen:

    1. Keep BP as is, and allow players to "break" them into X RR spells.
    -
    Con: Doesn't allow spreading out RR spells so that non- 10 chest FS can get a taste.*
    2. Increase the conversion rate and the tournament rewards to ~20 so you win some on residences and lose some on WS.
    -Con: This is a pretty big bonus to lower chapter players with BP in the bank, and clearly double the RR per tournament that the devs envisioned for upgrading event buildings.
    3. Cut the cost to upgrade Magic buildings to 0.5 RR per square, or
    3b Double the RR rewards, but also double the RR cost to upgrade event buildings only(not magic)
    -Con: Makes magic buildings much cheaper to upgrade at low levels.
    4. Set the price to upgrade magic buildings at a fixed RR cost equal to both a 10 chest tournament AND the conversion rate whatever that may be.
    -Con: May devalue the use of RR on magic buildings as it may be better to upgrade event buildings and this may reduce the purchasing of Magic buildings.

    All of the above ideas fix the problem of devaluing Blueprints for those with magic buildings, but as you see they each come with flaws too. I imagine this is why inno is taking their time trying to find an acceptable balance. Does anyone have another idea to add to the list, or better yet a way to fix the cons?

    Edit: #1 might work if the 10th chest had a blueprint, and a couple of lower chests each had 1 RR, but then the con becomes that players are getting more total RR than inno intended(maybe)
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  16. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    It took time for people to reorganize to be with like minded people about the tournament - if you look back people had lots of issues with significant differences in participation within their fs. It took time for people to realize the tournament was good, so the number of people playing the tournament has increased. There was a psychological barrier to getting all 10 chests, that you would get within just a couple thousand of the goal and have wasted the resources for that effort.

    Heck, I had been grooming higher participation in my f/s for the old tournament and we had been improving weekly, and I think our f/s would have held back if not for our leadership pushing to go all in. At the beginning we had huge sacrifice and burning through resources at an unsustainable levels by a few players because of having about 10 weak players, and I think most f/s were probably in worse shape because the old tournament was a hard sell and I moved around a bit looking for a group receptive to the tournament.

    There was a number of barriers to get past for f/s to start getting bp regularly.

    You are putting together two ideas that changed over time. It was rare to get the blueprints when they started and it is common now and I am suggesting that it has turned out to be easier then originally projected, but only Inno has its original projections.


     
  17. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    ~3% of players = "common"? o_O
     
  18. Scoobydoo

    Scoobydoo
    Forum Moderator
    Elvenar Team

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Please people. Marindor has asked nicely for you all to stop this.
    Do you really want me to get heavy handed. Enough is enough come on we know where you all are coming from let's leave this till we see where it is going next
     
    silvia and Mykan like this.
  19. Bruce the Fierce

    Bruce the Fierce Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    Another option on why people started getting Blueprints recently. For me it wasn't that getting Blueprints got easier, it was before the RR spell was proposed, I didn't have any blue building so they were not of any value to me. Once the RR spell started being discussed, I moved to a 10 chest fellowship and started stashing Blueprints waiting for the RR spells to arrive. And once I had a lot of Blueprints, I realized I could afford to use a few to upgrade blue building so I did buy a few buildings. But it was the RR spell that got me into 10 chest tournaments, not the tournaments getting easier.


    Another reason people may have started participating at the 10 chest level more recently is the number of people who are at max level. New races are taking much longer to come out and more folks are completing the guest races. These folks need a reason to keep playing. Tournaments give you a reason to log in every day. And with no other short term goal, 10 chests is good motivation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
    slide, EdwardTrunk and SoggyShorts like this.
  20. RandomNo.

    RandomNo. Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2018
    BP convert to RR - 1 time event when RRs come out. Fix a rate such that those who now have BP can still upgrade the same number of magic buildings with what they will get

    Future values of upgrading magic buildings - I am willing to concede this, even if it means it take more than 10 chests to upgrade 1 building, although I would wish it that way

    I just don't think what we've already earned should be devalued thru the conversion but am open to subsequent balancing
     
    Mykan likes this.

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