Fellowships Remove Rank and Score from FS

[DeletedUser2402]

As with a personal ranking there is really no real benefit to have a score and rank for fellowships. It serves no purpose.


Where score/rank matter more are for events such as the fellowship adventures and other events like this where there are additional prizes for a higher ranking.

 

[Karvest]

Removing of any competitive aspect lowers Inno cash income, especially that one, which is directly linked to amount of premium buildings and expansions.
I'd prefer the opposite thing - add more different rankings, at least tournament one (elvenstats is good for that, but ingame rating would be better and more accurate).

 

[DeletedUser2402]

It's not really a competition if someone can purchase more magical residences or workshops then the next person. That's just who has deeper pockets. It serves no purpose.

I agree with more rankings for events where there are additional gifts for being higher ranked such as the Fellowship adventures. I'm not sure on tournaments, there currently is no competition between fellowships as each receives the same thing. Let's get rid of personal rankings on that too!

 

[Karvest]

Even if you see no competitive aspect in getting more tournament points than other FS - that's actually a thing. Another side of tournament ratings - it helps players to find FS with amount of tourney activity they want, and help FS to find players that fit their tournament participation requirements. + there are individual score rewards for personal tournament ratings, why not do something like that for FS tournament ratings (like it done for FA ratings).

 

[DeletedUser2402]

Even if you see no competitive aspect in getting more tournament points than other FS - that's actually a thing. Another side of tournament ratings - it helps players to find FS with amount of tourney activity they want, and help FS to find players that fit their tournament participation requirements. + there are individual score rewards for personal tournament ratings, why not do something like that for FS tournament ratings (like it done for FA ratings).

this has nothing to do with tournaments

 

[SoggyShorts]

It's not really a competition if someone can purchase more magical residences or workshops then the next person. That's just who has deeper pockets. It serves no purpose.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that ranking isn't a fair measure since it can be bought.
However we can't ignore its usefulness due to out own personal bias.

Although flawed, ranking does show how powerful a city is. A 400K city can make more goods than a 50K city. That means they can potentially help your FS more in tournaments, the FA, trades and the like. When checking out someone's city seeing that number is helpful.

Players still care about rank. You don't, I don't, but some players spend 1,000s of dollars to gain and maintain a high rank, so regardless of how we feel about that, it would be insane for the devs to remove it.

 

[DeletedUser2402]

I agree with you wholeheartedly that ranking isn't a fair measure since it can be bought.
However we can't ignore its usefulness due to out own personal bias.

Although flawed, ranking does show how powerful a city is. A 400K city can make more goods than a 50K city. That means they can potentially help your FS more in tournaments, the FA, trades and the like. When checking out someone's city seeing that number is helpful.

Players still care about rank. You don't, I don't, but some players spend 1,000s of dollars to gain and maintain a high rank, so regardless of how we feel about that, it would be insane for the devs to remove it.

Again this has nothing to do with tournaments

 

[DeletedUser2402]

@SoggyShorts I've seen more derogatory comments about pay to win and the like from other players. Making this important might actually hurt them in the long run. If someone wants to spend that kind of money in their kingdom so be it, that's their business but it doesn't need to be a rank for doing so.

And to correlate that a high ranked fellowship because of $ spent, rank or score, is actually better, it's simply not true.

 

[DeletedUser2402]

Another motivation for removing fs rank and score is about participation.

There are fellowships so worried that their score will drop, that they keep around players simply for their score. They have players that don’t help in anything. This puts more burden on others to score more than they need to in tournaments and fellowship adventures to take up the slack.

It also starts putting in a lot of requirements for these fellowships. No players under x amount. Well guess what, my kps can still raise a wonder as well as a chapter 12 person and I help raise wonders until they are done and not base it on any sort of cost ratio. I can participate better in a tournament than that person who has 160k score and is not participating. My 240 points is better than 0. In fellowship adventures my workshops and factories produce just as much as the next person and more so if they aren’t participating.

Removing the rank and score, may just get people to lighten up a little and start choosing people who help the fellowship with a lot of things versus just having a high score to keep a high fs rank.

 

[Karvest]

Chapter 12 person can give much more to FS market then you. And help other members to balance their goods for tourneys. Low score is just an indicator that player can't produce enough goods to trade and there is no need to look deeper at the city (would be great to see the score in the FS applications list - for quick decline low level cities applying to high level FS).
FS score actually show the average members score to determine whether it would be enough to cover trades of the player who is searching for FS.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Again this has nothing to do with tournaments

Only because you are wilfully ignoring that it does in fact have a lot to do with them.

When recruiting for your FS you want specific things.

1. Activity level/visits
2. Personality
3. Trades
4. Tournament/FA participation

Being able to see, at a glance, a number that indicates how much a player can potentially contribute to #3&4 compared to other players is useful to many of us.

Spoiler: these 2 players

The numbers in green are a decent indicator of production capacity.
The tournament numbers are a very useful bit of info if your FS is tournament focused.

There are fellowships so worried that their score will drop, that they keep around players simply for their score. They have players that don’t help in anything. This puts more burden on others to score more than they need to in tournaments and fellowship adventures to take up the slack.

If there are, they are so few as to be irrelevant. Rank chasing fellowships aren't stupid- they know that such a move would hurt their rank in the long run since that player's score can't go up.

It also starts putting in a lot of requirements for these fellowships. No players under x amount. Well guess what, my kps can still raise a wonder as well as a chapter 12 person and I help raise wonders until they are done and not base it on any sort of cost ratio. I can participate better in a tournament than that person who has 160k score and is not participating. My 240 points is better than 0. In fellowship adventures my workshops and factories produce just as much as the next person and more so if they aren’t participating.

But that 160K person could do far more than you given that they have more space. If they are not participating, and in a FS that cares about FA/TP they will be removed. It's a problem that doesn't really exist.

Removing the rank and score, may just get people to lighten up a little and start choosing people who help the fellowship with a lot of things versus just having a high score to keep a high fs rank.

There is no evidence to support this. Have a look at FS that are highly ranked. You'll find they also do well in the tournament and the FA.

You seem to think that player score is just a stupid goal that some players have, but you are failing to see that others view it as a mark of progress, and a measurement of capacity.
Even if a player buys their rank by purchasing Magic residences and workshops, those buildings are nearly 2x as efficient as normal buildings making their city objectively better. It doesn't meant that they have more skill, just a better city, but that does matter.

If we could see a psych profile of applicants, and view statistics on how often they log in, then maybe we could judge a strangers usefulness by that, but we can't, so using their rank to see potential usefulness is all we have.

 

[DeletedUser2402]

Only because you are wilfully ignoring that it does in fact have a lot to do with them.

When recruiting for your FS you want specific things.

1. Activity level/visits
2. Personality
3. Trades
4. Tournament/FA participation

Being able to see, at a glance, a number that indicates how much a player can potentially contribute to #3&4 compared to other players is useful to many of us.

Spoiler: these 2 players

View attachment 4168

The numbers in green are a decent indicator of production capacity.
The tournament numbers are a very useful bit of info if your FS is tournament focused.

If there are, they are so few as to be irrelevant. Rank chasing fellowships aren't stupid- they know that such a move would hurt their rank in the long run since that player's score can't go up.

But that 160K person could do far more than you given that they have more space. If they are not participating, and in a FS that cares about FA/TP they will be removed. It's a problem that doesn't really exist.

There is no evidence to support this. Have a look at FS that are highly ranked. You'll find they also do well in the tournament and the FA.

You seem to think that player score is just a stupid goal that some players have, but you are failing to see that others view it as a mark of progress, and a measurement of capacity.
Even if a player buys their rank by purchasing Magic residences and workshops, those buildings are nearly 2x as efficient as normal buildings making their city objectively better. It doesn't meant that they have more skill, just a better city, but that does matter.

If we could see a psych profile of applicants, and view statistics on how often they log in, then maybe we could judge a strangers usefulness by that, but we can't, so using their rank to see potential usefulness is all we have.

A tournament score has nothing to do with a fellowship score so go ahead and keep derailing. You seem to spout a lot of things that you don't know. I've been in enough fellowships that these things occur.

 

[SoggyShorts]

A tournament score has nothing to do with a fellowship score so go ahead and keep derailing.

Here I was thinking that a player finishing in the top 100 in a tournament gets them ranking points which are then added to their FS score which effects their FS rank.
Ranking, both personal and FS helps players of a similar level find each other. It also adds a little element of competition which enough players enjoy that they pay innogames at least some of the €160,000,000 that they made last year for the privilege.

You seem to spout a lot of things that you don't know.

Sounds like you are starting to take valid criticism personally. Please know that I'm not making attacks on your person.
BTW, I confess that I don't know everything, but I have been around for a while and may have picked a few things up.

 

[DeletedUser2402]

This thread is about removing the fellowship score, not about tournament scores. You're reading two different things here Soggy. Scoobydoo said to keep it on topic, you keep bringing up tournaments.

 

[SoggyShorts]

This thread is about removing the fellowship score, not about tournament scores. You're reading two different things here Soggy. Scoobydoo said to keep it on topic, you keep bringing up tournaments.

I may have gotten lost in the 3 threads you have where you state your opinion that rank is useless, sorry.

For this specific one, you want to remove FS rank. As dead as this horse is, I'll point out again that players like to compare themselves against other players.
Likewise, teams of players like to compare themselves with other teams.

Go to a live server and check out the recruiting threads- Many of them advertise that they are a top 40 ranked FS, or the #3 ranked FS etc.
The ranking system is flawed compared to other games if you want to use it to determine a players or fellowships skill level, it's broken.
However if you are just looking for a FS that has similarly sized/advanced players the FS rank is an excellent tool, and pretty much the only one we have in game.

 

[Karvest]

That's not he is bringing up tournaments, that's you ignoring other parts of messages...

 

[DeletedUser2402]

Sweet another idea implemented!

 

[SoggyShorts]

Sweet another idea implemented!

 

[DeletedUser2402]

Peace and quiet now. Typical soggy response when one doesn't agree.

 

[Marindor]

The FS rankings do give a kind of competitive element to the game, which we have no intention of removing. I'll have to archive this thread As a side note: @SoggyShorts and @Guinevere456 - Please make sure to keep a discussion about the subject and not make it personal. Thank you