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Discussion Release Notes version 1.54

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I can't speak to most of the buildings, but my glossy gardens (won in fairies) are 95.3 Pop and Culture per square, while my Wood elf residences (2 chapters later) are maxed at 100 pop, and are using 39.5 culture per square. Notably superior after 2 full chapters
Ok so maybe that is a little overpowered, but the new fairy level Glossy at 58 pop/sq doesn't even beat a fairy residence.
Granted it's only 5% less pop than a residence and gives culture instead of taking it, but it gives no coins, and next chapter is 13% worse than a res.

Even nastier is the Dwarf chapter Glossy: It starts off as 13% less pop than a residence, and drops to 26% less next chapter.
quote2.png

If you split the difference (OLD pop + NEW pop)/2, this is what you would get
Glossy soggy.png

Making a chapter 8 Glossy give 10% less than the old chapter 6 Glossy is a two-handed swing from behind with the nerfbat after a running start. Far too harsh.

Another way to look at it:
If you upgraded your Glossy that you won in chapter 6 up to chapter 8, you would still have negative pop! Where's the incentive to pay diamonds for that?
 
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ashrem

Well-Known Member
Ok so maybe that is a little overpowered, but the new fairy level Glossy at 58 pop/sq doesn't even beat a fairy residence.
Granted it's only 5% less pop than a residence and gives culture instead of taking it, but it givese no coins, and next chapter is 13% worse than a res.
That it was overpowered was my only point. The design team should be embarrassed at the callousness of the modifications they've deployed. I'm no longer willing to make threats about games, but I'm also no longer to walked over. This will be a make-or-break deployment.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
When the tournament is finished it no longer shows how much over you are on the map page, just a line indicating finished. It was nice seeing how much over from that page and taking that away is the opposite to an improvement.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
Wanted to direct you to elvenstats, but their crawler is offline for beta server again.=(
Current top:
42028 Lime Tree People
41588 *Shards of Hope *
33312 ‡‡ Elvenars ‡‡ 1 spot
25462 Platinum Leaf < Apply! >
24248 Targaryen House ◄recruit►
19563 Middle Earthens
16932 FRENCH ADVENTURE recrute
16673 Czechoslovak Kingdoms
16671 PACSIPAJTÁSOK
13975 Atlas (on recrute)
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
All buildings with their stats changed should receive a complimentary upgrade to the first level where the effects are minimized/negated. Nobody wants to load into their city the day of this rebalancing to find themselves with negative culture nor population, or even worse, both. Finally being able to upgrade event buildings is fantastic, but the way this rebalance is looking, it seems almost like Inno wants to force players to upgrade any affected buildings just to regain what they already had, or have to deal with severe handicaps in their city for several days if not weeks while they put down new buildings. I'm all for long-term balance changes that ultimately improve the game, but there doesn't have to be such a significant penalty to players like there is here.
 

Buttrflwr

Well-Known Member
The thing is, whether "overpowered" or not, they were EVENT bldgs. Things we spent a LOT OF TIME winning. Some people spent money to obtain. I know I deliberately saved my feathers, essence, sprouts, whatever to win what I knew would help ME in the current chapter, and beyond. Now, that time and effort was just thrown out the window in one fell swoop. With no warning. I could see if they did this to stuff in the tech tree. But these are things we WON, we CHOSE to go for. Some PAID for. Meh, I know, I know. Go sit the heck down somewhere. This is Beta. But still, we are a player base, and should have some warning. At least on things we picked and chose to win. I didn't go for much in the cursed Orc chapter, because not much helped me. And the few things that did, are what they keeeled. :D I am FINALLY only 100 neg pop, because I am almost out of orcs and was able to tear down some shroom farms and build a couple houses. Doesn't change the fact that I am looking at a LOT of useless event bldgs in my city that carry pop, and will have to deal with them soon.
I hope they understand that these are bldgs that a LOT of people CHOSE to win, not bldgs offered in the tech tree, and they need to have a viable option for EVERYONE to do something with them BEFORE they nerf them on live, not just the select few that gain 10 chests, etc. Ok Marindor, NOW I am sitting the heck down and shutting up. :D:p
 

WolfSinger

Well-Known Member
I think several people have hit on a good point with this change. A number of players did spend real money on events to purchase extra of the essence, feathers, etc. to get the prizes they wanted - heck INNO encourages this with being able to use diamonds to get extra and specials for purchasing diamonds that give extra during the events.

To get into legalities - drastically changing an item that even one person paid real money to win - could be considered Bait and Switch - especially now with people who are having to look at spending real money to get back what they lost. In US this is illegal - not sure about other countries. Even with the TOS giving INNO the right to change the game whenever and however they please - I believe a case could be made. However, I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV.
 

ashrem

Well-Known Member
I think several people have hit on a good point with this change. A number of players did spend real money on events to purchase extra of the essence, feathers, etc. to get the prizes they wanted - heck INNO encourages this with being able to use diamonds to get extra and specials for purchasing diamonds that give extra during the events.

To get into legalities - drastically changing an item that even one person paid real money to win - could be considered Bait and Switch - especially now with people who are having to look at spending real money to get back what they lost. In US this is illegal - not sure about other countries. Even with the TOS giving INNO the right to change the game whenever and however they please - I believe a case could be made. However, I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV.
There are a couple of issues with that tack.
1) I'm pretty sure we pay money for essences. we get essences. We use the essences to gamble. Once we use the essences we have got what we paid for. If there was a way to specifically buy (100% promise of result), then the building would be what we are buying. We are only buying a chance, not the prize. Otherwise anyone who ever bought a lottery ticket and only got half the prize could make the case that the odds of winning the entire jackpot were unfairly changed the moment another ticket was sold after they bought their ticket.

2) Discounting that, if they were changing it a week, or a month, later, there might be a case, but we've had the use of our product (minimum) since December.

3) setting all that aside, we'd have to stop using the service as soon as you are notified of the change (because that is the contract Inno offers in order to play Section 1.4). So even if it's possible to make a case, we'd have to stop playing the game as soon as they put the notification in about the change, or we are agreeing to the new terms.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Inno is good at bait and switch.

I sold off all of the event buildings that have messed people up because I advanced to the point they weren't worth keeping, but when I had them I had spent money to get extra essence or whatever to win them. The idea that other items I've paid to win in my city could be just slaughter doesn't sit right.

I think increasing the value of some of the premium culture/population items in the tech tree would have been a better way to address the issue.

Might also reassess the number of diamonds for things from the tech tree as well. The cost of items is going up with the increases in values from the chapter, but that's going up way faster than people's ability to afford or budget for them.

I think several people have hit on a good point with this change. A number of players did spend real money on events to purchase extra of the essence, feathers, etc. to get the prizes they wanted - heck INNO encourages this with being able to use diamonds to get extra and specials for purchasing diamonds that give extra during the events.

To get into legalities - drastically changing an item that even one person paid real money to win - could be considered Bait and Switch - especially now with people who are having to look at spending real money to get back what they lost. In US this is illegal - not sure about other countries. Even with the TOS giving INNO the right to change the game whenever and however they please - I believe a case could be made. However, I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV.
 

Marindor

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Hi guys, just a little head's up: As said, we're working on a solution to compensate for the big losses some players had. We are doing the maths on different solutions/scenarios at the moment and based on that, will come with a solution. It might not be this week instead of bank holidays, but just so you know: We are still working on it. The most probable situation will be that this compensation will come on Beta at the same time as on Live. When we know more, we will let you know. Thanks for baring with us :)
 

Maillie

Well-Known Member
Thank you, Marindor, for the report. Nothing was mentioned about the way to replace the loss for the smaller players. Hopefully it's not something in the 10th chest of the tournament. We have never opened the 8th chest and have many beloved players that have been with us for a very long time. They are like family. If the solution is that they have to leave us it will be such a shame. I'm not even sure top fellowships would want to (or even could) take in players that play the game for fun at their own pace. I've seen the requirements to join some of the 10 Chest fellowships, and many of our fellowship wouldn't qualify. The ones that would qualify don't need to, they have no older event buildings, they're in willows and habitats, or grape vine chapters. Thank you.
 

Maillie

Well-Known Member
There are a couple of issues with that tack.
1) I'm pretty sure we pay money for essences. we get essences. We use the essences to gamble. Once we use the essences we have got what we paid for. If there was a way to specifically buy (100% promise of result), then the building would be what we are buying. We are only buying a chance, not the prize. Otherwise anyone who ever bought a lottery ticket and only got half the prize could make the case that the odds of winning the entire jackpot were unfairly changed the moment another ticket was sold after they bought their ticket.
I don't believe the Lottery Commission could decide to lower the upcoming prizes, then go around collecting the boats, cars and houses of the previous winners because they had received more than the newer payouts. I see a little problem with that line of thinking :)
 

ashrem

Well-Known Member
I don't believe ....
That's because you are trying to extend my analogy too far. "A" being similar to a portion of of "B" does not, ever, mean that all of "B" is similar to all of "A"

I'm not saying the event building is a lottery prize. I'm saying that claiming our cash bought the Event building because we won it is like claiming our cash bought the grand prize in the lottery because we won it. Neither of those is true. In both cases, all that our cash bought, was another chance at something, and that is what we received.
 
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Karvest

Well-Known Member
We are doing the maths on different solutions/scenarios at the moment and based on that, will come with a solution. It might not be this week instead of bank holidays, but just so you know: We are still working on it.
Main question is whether we can cut our trees of candy canes or compensation would be in their stats change?
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
Main question is whether we can cut our trees of candy canes or compensation would be in their stats change?
im thinking the compensation will be one or more free upgrade spells, or maybe diamonds (where you can upgrade those buildings with)
Time will tell...
Tomorrow is the last day of 1.54 (normally then its been 2 weeks) and i still dont see the upgrade option on the event buildings. So im thinking even if there comes a compensation, live server will still be furious if those arent usable yet for another 2 weeks ^^
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
one free upgrade would do nothing with my 7 trees, each one of which require 3 upgrades to become not useless or at least 2 to regain population back.
 

Marindor

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
im thinking the compensation will be one or more free upgrade spells, or maybe diamonds (where you can upgrade those buildings with)
Time will tell...
Tomorrow is the last day of 1.54 (normally then its been 2 weeks) and i still dont see the upgrade option on the event buildings. So im thinking even if there comes a compensation, live server will still be furious if those arent usable yet for another 2 weeks ^^
Yes, it will probably be in the form of restoration spells, but as soon as we know for sure, I'll tell you. I'd wait tearing down stuff for now :)

For the Live servers: This should be clearly communicated, so that should help players putting it in the right perspective. On Beta all kinds of changes can unexpectedly appear. On Live it will be a bit different. I think if we communicate clearly what the purpose of this change is and why we do it, and beforehand let the players know that possible losses will be compensated somehow, it shouldn't be too bad.
 

iDavis

Well-Known Member
It won't be so bad, when players understand that this change is negative just for them as single players, but in aspect of future game development it brings much more possibilities. Low population caused by this change is just a part of impact this update has on game, whilst most of impact will be positive, I'm sure.