Discussion Release Notes version 1.39

[DeletedUser1556]

Are you guys actually having contests as to which one of you comes up with the worst idea to improve the game?
This change in neighbourly help is even more stupid than your 1 minute time reduction (60 precious seconds that we all still feel soooo excited about ) and your choices are really detrimental to active players.
I'm starting to get tired of it and by the sound of it, I'm not the only one...

 

[DeletedUser]

"Some may say they would have fewer reasons to do NH, but in fact, the majority of players is not doing NH for these rewards, but to actually help their fellowship members and neighbors."
If there were no polls or surveys done to find out everybody's reasons for giving neighborly help, how was the conclusion drawn that the majority of players are doing NH to "help their FS and neighbors"? You can't just pull a bunch of data from the game and then use that data to peer into our hearts to see the reasons behind us doing NH.

I guess they included all the inactive players (you know those that never ever will be removed) and thought, ..... well most players still don't give NH

 

[DeletedUser170]

I made some calculation, though not that excessive, and somewhere lacks the power or proof (aka numbers). My calculations are not based on previous version-new version, but rather "is the CL still worth to have in your city".

On level 8, with an orc city, considering non-premium residences, it seems that a crystal lighthouse could be better than building one more manufactory, though it is not straightforward, and the secondary boost in gain NH should be included, and has to worth at least 5-6 squares! If someone says that the length boost does not affect anything, then a lvl 8 CL is actually worse than an additional manufactory. Please note that the thousand of KP's are NOT calculated in this, the very same way I didn't add anything for the costs of the manufactory, only pop+cult requirements.
The lower the CL's level, the more you have to value those extra 24 minutes of boosts.
If you have premium buildings in your city, your manufactories take less place, and therefor the secondary boost have to have even more value for you. (about 1 more square)
Conclusion: even with the debuff, it could be better than building addition manufactory, but you have to calculate whether it actually worth it.

On the other hand, I can compare my Mountain Hall to the CL. For this comparision I have to tell, that I have bought a lot of premium expansion, and therefor my numbers are only valid from a premium players perspective:
One level of MH increases my production by 221 every 3 hour. Considering a day 4*3 hours and 1*9 hours, thats ~1200-1250 goods per day.
One level of CL increases my "production" aka the chests by 111,5 every chest. Considering a day 3 chests, that's ~330-350 goods per day. (note: I started to overscout 2 months ago, when I started to use the CL for gaining goods, and thus I can only unlock the wizards chapter, but not the halflings, so approximatly 1.5 half chapters ahead of my time)
Seeing this two numbers, I feel like I want to upgrade my MH instead the CL, and I see thousands of KP's that are wasted. And this does not involve the population the MH gives, witch is way better than the NH time-boost, which I can live without.
I couldn't be sure about free players citys, but even if they produce 1/3 of what I produce, and that means about 4-4-3 manufactories, they still should have the MH a few levels ahead of CL, or have to overscout.
A premium player should build the MH to lvl 8 before upgrade the CL to lvl 2, and to lvl 13 before lvl 3.
Conclusion: Non-premium players have now a more balanced version for the two wonders, but for premium players it is no longer balanced, and the KP's involved are flushed down.

Overall conclusion: If you have already built it, you might want to consider not selling it, but you might actually free space up, by selling the CL. If you haven't built it, and you are a non-premium player, you should consider building it, and if you have overscouted by a lot, it is more than likely, you will come better from it. If you are a premium player, do not build this building if you haven't already, because there are other, better things in your disposal.

Edit: I'm not saying that this "feature" is good for me. But that have been said many times...

 

[DeletedUser1596]

Stop lying, you mean inactive people will have more rewards than used. For all active players they will get ALOT less.

Not true. MANY active players motivate others just to return the favor. I'm doing about 25 mots per day on average and I dare to consider myself an active player.

Nope, just because you mucked up again in your calculations and planing and we players are the ones that have to deal with it.

Well you may be right and may not. What if INNO wants to finally do something about that terrible motivation system and they needed to adjust this wonder for the whole thing to make sense.

These Wonders extra goods + gold ist the ONLY reason why people are doing this NH

...

I don't know what "people" stands for, but this looks like you are trying to speak for everybody. In that case you'd be wrong again.


I understand that those players who motivate whole map every day will be at loss and the main reason they built The Bell is gone, leaving them with semifunctional AW. But the wonder still provides you bonuses and resources. You think this is not right, it's ok to post it here (that;s what this thread is for). But calling this a slap in our face supporting it with untrue or half-true arguments is not a way a feedback should work.

 

[DeletedUser170]

I finally understood why this change come in: Up until this point the gains from this wonder are more closer to an x^2 function, than a linear one. That is not good if all the other wonders are linear, and you want to have only linear wonders in your game. So they took out one of the factors, by limiting it to a constant, and thus creating a linear wonder.
The reason is understandable, the false reasons listed there are not quiet so, and the way they did it... questionable, but could be worse. I have to say, I'm more happy to have the linear function this way, than the other way around, meaning you can only get a constant amount of goods per level, and you have to go through all neighbor to maximize. Yet this might have a huge impact on the NH given through map.

 

[DeletedUser724]

The First 3 visit in my fellow, get 3 chest
after visit rest of fellow members, the select "notification" and find "GOLDEN HAND", visit them

no need to do any more NH

VISIT IS SUPER SIMPLE

STOP ALL VISIT.... THAT IS WHAT INNO WISH US TO DO

 

[Deleted User - 63604]

Well you may be right and may not. What if INNO wants to finally do something about that terrible motivation system and they needed to adjust this wonder for the whole thing to make sense.

If they really would have something on their mind to do about the terrible motivation to buff other players, why not FIRST solve that and THEN change the wonder? Even if that would still suck, but then they could atleast say something like: "hey we have reworked the buffing system to make it more interesting and bla bla, but that is influencing the Wonder x in that and that way, so we had to reduce/adjust/change its effect in that and that way". Ok, fine, i can understand it and all good man. But no, they duck our wonders first maybe thinking "No idea when or if we will change something to the NH system, but here you get already the crappy wonders (again), just in case, have fun". Just stop dreaming man. I can understand if alot of the fanboys and fangirls on facebook just likes everything inno posts there, but here we need to be realistic and criticise/give feedback based on our real game experience (its obvious that inno is lacking on that point). Not based on what you hope or dream about.

I don't know what "people" stands for, but this looks like you are trying to speak for everybody. In that case you'd be wrong again.

"people" stands for the group of players who can identify with what i have written and the players that i got to know in the game that share my opinion on this because of same playstyle. I know its fun to cherry picking one or another word to argue against something that doesnt go along with your own opinion, but whats the point of it?

I understand that those players who motivate whole map every day will be at loss and the main reason they built The Bell is gone, leaving them with semifunctional AW. But the wonder still provides you bonuses and resources. You think this is not right, it's ok to post it here (that;s what this thread is for). But calling this a slap in our face supporting it with untrue or half-true arguments is not a way a feedback should work.

Before the big change of all wonders they also provided bonuses and resources. So what? They were crappy as hell, so players didnt build the most of them or just because they have to dump their KP between the new chapters somewhere anyway. So would you also support the old wonders? Btw Inno changed the Elvenar trading center spell effect by half in secret without telling anything to the players. Now they changed the lighthouse to the point where "people" wouldnt even build it for that effect, because the used KP are just not worth it. What wonder is next? First having crappy wonders, then improve them so players get happy and spend alot of effort to build them up, then starting to dump them again (lvl 11 lighthouse = 3300 KP wasted)? What kind of mickmove is that to treat the playerbase and their customers? Should we smile and cry "More Inno! Gimme more of your love!"? Ofc i see that change as a slap and as a sign that Inno dont care about their players or at least the game designer(s) who approved that change.

Sure, its maybe not the feedback they like the most, but all my feedback involves the answer to the question, why im thinking that way and also what could be done better (in my opinion). Thats what constructive criticism is called and should have, but ofc its still criticism and not every one will like it.

 

[DeletedUser2198]

Not a good change to the lighthouse, I will get a lot less goods now and it makes the lighthouse/sprire less powerful.

 

[Lissona]

Is the Lighthouse still worth the space? That's how I see it:

One Marble manufactory for Elves needs ~ 51 squares (including manufactory size, squares for population, squares for culture, squares for culture for population, roads – the space for producing the supplies and eventually more population for gold is not included!).

One Marble Lvl 23 for me (numbers rounded): 3x 2,500 + 1x 4,600 = 12,100 on 51 squares per day = 237/square
One Lighthouse Lvl 6 for me: 3x 2,500 = 7,500 on 26 squares per day = 288/square (26 squares, because the short road is 4 - I take 2 for the lighthouse, 2 for another building)

That's a better output per square for the lowest tier manufactory - without the space I need for supplies ...

Is the change a nerf for players who buffed 30+ per day - well, of course.
Is the wonder still worth the space - well, for me of course...

Lissi

P.S.: as always - if anyone finds a miscalculation I would be happy if you tell me!

 

[DeletedUser1777]

Is the wonder still worth the space - well, for me of course...

I think you forgot one thing, you receive 3 chests and they don't only deliver marble (tier1) ;-)
Before the change you've got roughly 1/3 of every tier (1,2+3) now you just have the chance of getting all 3 a day

Why didn't you do the maths for all tier?
Further I think it's not a good idea to ignore the supplies in your calculation, it would change the result of your calculation into: not worth it.

 

[DeletedUser950]

The first in my neighbourhood quitt the game because of goods - that means we all levelt the crystalhouse getting goods by polishing. I have the Problem too that I cannot fight sucessfull to liberate provinces, I have to pay. And that ist in the meantime with very hard provinces I only can Scout a lot. To get now in 3 chests for polishing about 50 People 2xplanks (3k), 1x gems (3k) - and thats all is hard. My CH is at Level 9 nearly to 10.
I think it over as well to quitt the game, I'm realy angry.

 

[DeletedUser170]

Flabbes, as far as I know, it is still random, and as random it should be considered that on the long run it still going to be 1+1+1 for each good.
I can't speak on behalf of everyone, but my calculations says that the difference between tiers are about 10-20% on my level, and the higher tiers are producing a slight bit less then T1. (obviously since T3 worth ~7 times more then T1, this is not that simple, but it doesn't change the fact, that the wonder could actually be better than manufactory.
As for the supplies, they are indeed an important factor, but not on T1, that could be gain through other means. Also it is hard to calculate... You can calc with +200% PoP spell, or without... what about the cult bonus? Etc.

But still... even with the CL still being better than the manufactory, the difference is really small. The problem really is the fact that we could have put thousands of KP in other wonders, that is now kinda gone.

 

[Lissona]

I think you forgot one thing, you receive 3 chests and they don't only deliver marble (tier1) ;-)
Why didn't you do the maths for all tier?

I compared the best one - marble - to the Lighthose:
Marble: 51 squares for 3x 2,500 + 1x 4,600 = 12,100 = 237/square
Crystal: 71 squares for 3x 2,900 + 1x 5,300 = 14,000 = 197/square
Gems: 143 squares for 3x 3,500 + 1x 6,400 = 16,900 = 118/square

IFurther I think it's not a good idea to ignore the supplies in your calculation, it would change the result of your calculation into: not worth it.

If goods production without supplies is on par or worse compared to the Lighthouse in terms of production/square – how do you think it will become better with the additional space required for the workshops? The Lighthouse is even more superior if you take into account supplies/workshops...

 

[Lissona]

As for the supplies, they are indeed an important factor, but not on T1, that could be gain through other means. Also it is hard to calculate... You can calc with +200% PoP spell, or without... what about the cult bonus? Etc..

Even if you calculate with max. culture bonus and 100% uptime of PoP spell, the manus still produce less than the lighthouse (for me)

 

[Ruffen]

I will still lose a lot of goods with this solution. This is not an encouragement to our active players. Why can`t you do Elvenar better? Not worse.. Take care of the active players... Read these message and give us the goods back!!

 

[DeletedUser1075]

I suspect the real issue here is that players have stopped collecting the chests, and this was done both to make way for a change in the way NH is conducted as well as to force players to pick up the chests.

I'm just glad I never built the Crystal Lighthouse ancient wonder.

I do look forward to the change to NH. Right now, it is a huge amount of maintenance, made even more burdensome by the load times for these larger cities. It would be great to see the maintenance effort for this game go down.

 

[Sirenia]

Inno, what the? People have build Lighthouse/Great Bell Wonders only AFTER you adjusted them, so they are not a complete waste. Now People spend thousands (!) of KP to lvl it up and you just change it to be useless again? Are you kidding?

Also your explanation sucks for every sentences.
"For the vast majority of players, you will end up having more rewards than you used to. For some players, you may get a tiny bit less."
Stop lying, you mean inactive people will have more rewards than used. For all active players they will get ALOT less.

So why do this? Simple because now, this system will be easier to balance and track on our side.
Nope, just because you mucked up again in your calculations and planing and we players are the ones that have to deal with it.

Some may say they would have fewer reasons to do NH, but in fact, the majority of players is not doing NH for these rewards, but to actually help their fellowship members and neighbors.
These Wonders extra goods + gold ist the ONLY reason why people are doing this NH even with the currently boring system. "Help" neighbors... yeah sure... maybe you should start playing your own game.

We do want NH to be more and more convenient to perform in the future (see the mobile system).
Aha, and how long have we to wait till the mobile version is done for all language versions and get us this system? Mobile version was announced 4 months ago and still doesnt have fellowship features, so no tournaments, no fellowship chat, no FA and so on. Have we wait another months before you are even able to add these basic features to the app? And then wait again until its available in all counties? Yeah, sure... And because the app will be maybe available in a year, lets muck the wonders now, who cares? Besides, who knows when the NH system from mobile will come to the PC version? And the best part: The NH system on mobile allows to skip visiting towns, but for the box you have to visit the towns. So why the hell are you even argue with the mobile NH system, if boxes and NH system works against each other?

And we think that this is the most important element to push people to perform Neighborly help and make sure it's as easy convenient as people.
What stupid logic is that? You take the most reason from us to buff other players and say it will push ppl to perform the NH? Do you want to lower box dropchance so we have to buff 20-50 ppl to get one or what?

Thats one of the biggest rip off and a slap in the face to all your active players. I hope you have the courage to acknowledge your mistake and give the players at least the option to transfer their used KP for Lighthouse/Great Bell to an other wonder of their choice or take this whole change back.

 

[Sirenia]

Bravo Floki! My favorite forum post of all time.

 

[DeletedUser607]

something that I've notices, but it's neither mentioned in the 1.39 nor in the 1.38 news:

these magical fight boost buildings (enlightened light range and that mage-boost building) are boosted to 50%, and the health-building is now at 25%.

this is far better than the 10% they have granted before.

so, since I have 6 of those buildings in total, this is a great change for me.

 

[DeletedUser880]

I QUOTE FROM THE ANNOUNCEMENT -

The mechanics for the Ancient Wonders, Crystal Lighthouse and Great Bell Spire, have changed.
This Ancient Wonder now gives 10 times more goods. This change also means that you can only find the goods in chests.
A word from the team:
We changed the mechanic for this ancient wonder. For the vast majority of players, you will end up having more rewards than you used to. For some players, you may get a tiny bit less. So why do this? Simple because now, this system will be easier to balance and track on our side.
Some may say they would have fewer reasons to do NH, but in fact, the majority of players is not doing NH for these rewards, but to actually help their fellowship members and neighbors.
We do want NH to be more and more convenient to perform in the future (see the mobile system). And we think that this is the most important element to push people to perform Neighborly help and make sure it's as easy convenient as people.

MY PERSONAL POSITION ON THIS CHANGE

My level 11 Crystal Lighthouse currently gives me 385 goods for each neighbour and fellowship member I visit so by visiting my 24 Fellowship members and my 240 neighbours I can get 266*385 (=102,510) goods per day.
With the new arrangements I will get 3,850 goods each time I open a chest (maximum 3 per day) - I get 11,550 goods per day
How can this be explained as a tiny bit less - close to 90% reduction is not a small change!
In effect any player who visits more than 30 Fellowship friends and neighbours will be disadvantaged.
The reduction in goods will have a significant effect on my ability to take part in tournaments - fighting will still be possible but catering will be significantly reduced so I will not be able to complete as many provinces and/or levels..
I am sure I will continue visiting my fellowship friends but would have absolutely no incentive to visit my neighbours, the majority of which have not progressed sufficiently and are too far away to visit me back.
In summary this change will reduce my goods rewards by close to 90% and will reduce the visits I make to neighbours by a similar amount, I will not be able to participate as much in tournaments and overall will need less time to spend playing Elvenar. I guess it will give me time to find another game, maybe one I find I enjoy more - another satisfied customer?!?

Looks like this change for me will have exactly the opposite effect to what you are looking for unless balancing means playing Elvenar less.