Events Reduce Level 1 Marble, Plank and Steel FActory construction time to 10s

[edeba]

Totally agree here. The time I cleared about half my map to build stupid level 1 buildings it took a couple hours. You can do a fairly quick switch from manu to workshops but not the other way around.

And omg, if you have any workshops busy when you try to do this...

 

[Pauly7]

So because they have made changes and made some effort (though I do appreciate that) we should all be expected to say "It's all great now, thanks very much"?

The changes they have made have pushed the focus all onto one particular badge and that is the badge that attracts the biggest drain of resources in order to make enough of them to compete near the top of the field. So now, on our Live server, I don't see much motivation to do any more in the FA than to complete the paths, because in order to be competitive with the top teams we would have to be prepared to spend more of those resources than the other top teams... which is a huge amount.

I know this comment is going to draw the exact same counter arguments again, but I don't see how you can have fun competition when it is all about one expensive badge.

Tearing down and rebuilding whole cities is not preferable, but at least for those FA orientated teams they could all see what needed to be done to achieve a result. If you had enough active players all willing to put that massive effort in to make all those badges, then it could pay off, no matter who you were. You just needed more of your team on the same page and all willing to do what is necessary over the course of a week to be a little better than everyone else. It doesn't work out for many teams, but that's the nature of competition and everyone had a shot at it if that's what they wanted to strive for.

Now none of the other badges matter. We still need to sit and make some blacksmith, necklace and statue badges, but they might as well scrap those altogether, because they're fairly pointless as they are so much easier to make. Leastways, if the FA continues in its current format then why not make the bottomless pit only Arcane Residue and Bracelet badges? None of the rest will have any material impact.

Then it will just come down to what it is. Keep the three maps as they are, just for people wishing to pick up stage rewards, and make the bottomless pit a matter of who is willing to spend the most time boosters, CCs and diamonds in order to buy first place - because that's what it is right now.

 

[CrazyWizard]

I think it would be a very strange signal to send, if they reduced the buildtime of L1 T1 factories to 10s.
They made this new FA format, and one of the results was less incentment to tear down your town and build T1 buildings, due to other badges being bottlenecs.
Then they (after hefty complaints) lessened the bottleneck effect of residue and bracelets. I applaud this, and think INNO should be acknowled for listening (for once). But the responce is: it´s too annoying to demolish our city and build L1 T1 factories, when necklesses/statues badges are more needed again
Damn it ain´t easy being INNO. Whatever they do ppl complain, that they spoil the joy of playing.
Right now many guilds on DK live server plan to boykot FA, due to the demand to do spire/tournament and get relics
I was VERY suprised, when I read this. But that just shows ppl have extreamly different views on what the game is all about, as I have told you again and again to no avail
Back to topic:
I don´t want INNO to encourage "demolish city and build L1 buildings" in any way.
If they reduced the buildtime of L1 factories, then it should be becourse they think it would be good for general gameplay. NOT to promote "unnatual" cityplanning to accomodate FA
If I had my way, all "make X timed productions in factories/workshops" would be removed from events, and be replaced with "get XXX resources/troops depending on chapter only", give NH, get relics, complete encounters (map/spire/tournament),and other "ordinary" gameplay things.
Yes it would be hard for small players to amass large amounts of "NH" badges, due to fewer contacts on map. But how does that differ from their ability to amass large amounts of statues/smiths/necklesses, due to fewer unlocked cityexpansions? In my book the problems are simular

I totally agree.
I do understand that it's not liked by those that today have modified there cities to "unnatural" pure FA town.
But the anyting that is counterproductive to gameplay should no exist.

Just like we complain about the tournament formula had some inherent flaws that at some point promotes stopping development, for the same reason I complain about the FA. town "destruction" should never be a goal, yet it is. promotion of this behavior is just wrong.

So because they have made changes and made some effort (though I do appreciate that) we should all be expected to say "It's all great now, thanks very much"?

The changes they have made have pushed the focus all onto one particular badge and that is the badge that attracts the biggest drain of resources in order to make enough of them to compete near the top of the field. So now, on our Live server, I don't see much motivation to do any more in the FA than to complete the paths, because in order to be competitive with the top teams we would have to be prepared to spend more of those resources than the other top teams... which is a huge amount.

I know this comment is going to draw the exact same counter arguments again, but I don't see how you can have fun competition when it is all about one expensive badge.

The best way and something I have been advocating at for FA or Events is seperate event towns.
Similar to for example in FoE with the special races thing.

I have played a game like that that each event opened a special "island" where you had to complete event productions or quests or whatever they could come up with. it allows a lot more varietie and freedom to create something cool and special and improve engagement rates.

This would make it an effort and coordination thing. and there are also some trick you can use to get some cold hard cash out of it.
But this is a huge change and they seem not be willing to go for this route after asking for it for years.

Then the counter argument.
Space is also a resource, and destruction was the drain to gain.
It's change and it takes time to adjust to it. but inherently there is no diffence between a basge that drains recource "y" and something that drains your space.
There is always something thats the limiting factor, without it there would be no competition.

I rather collect CC and other stuff we need for an FA, and make it possible to play they game AND and FA, the to only be able to compete by specializing in town destruction. but we are used now for 2 years to the old habit, it feels natural now to some player to play the game of destruction, and unnatural to play the game of preperation. it takes time to get used to it.
If FA was introduced without a destructive component we would not know better and just enjoy it.

even if some like it, destruction is simply a bad concept.

 

[Pauly7]

To be clear on this, I have always been against the destruction concept too. In the early days of FA, the teams wanting to compete at the top did literally have to destroy everything then rebuild it from scratch. We didn't even have access to all the time boosters we have now to assist with that operation. For this reason I always shunned the competitive aspect of FAs. I have always liked to see my city as something which grows organically, so this kind of playstyle was not for me.

But then they introduced the teleport spell, which changed everything. Now the less die-hard teams were able to take cities down temporarily to make way for their FA cities. That's the point I started to get into it because from that point anything was possible. The only key was to save up enough teleport spells then you could do whatever you wanted to your city and put it all right back afterwards.

I understand that space is a resource, but this is a very temporary change in usage. The biggest effect of losing the space was to lose a week's worth of goods. Many people have a lot of spare goods and teams could help the ones that didn't to replenish.

So now we're back to how we were in the pre-teleport days, in a sense, it just plays out differently and is now much more costly. To compete with the top echelon of FA teams now you not only have to burn through all your time boosters and any CCs you saved up, but you also have to burn through a lot of diamonds, because you can craft every recipe you see for a week and you still won't have made enough Arcane Residue badges. This prices all but the most crazy FA nutters out of the market, when looking at those top positions.

The kicker is - Those teams are still building shanty towns as big as they always did. They're just now spending big to produce enough Arcane Residues to match the numbers of workshop and manu badges that they're capable of making.

 

[edeba]

To be clear on this, I have always been against the destruction concept too. In the early days of FA, the teams wanting to compete at the top did literally have to destroy everything then rebuild it from scratch. We didn't even have access to all the time boosters we have now to assist with that operation. For this reason I always shunned the competitive aspect of FAs. I have always liked to see my city as something which grows organically, so this kind of playstyle was not for me.

But then they introduced the teleport spell, which changed everything. Now the less die-hard teams were able to take cities down temporarily to make way for their FA cities. That's the point I started to get into it because from that point anything was possible. The only key was to save up enough teleport spells then you could do whatever you wanted to your city and put it all right back afterwards.

I understand that space is a resource, but this is a very temporary change in usage. The biggest effect of losing the space was to lose a week's worth of goods. Many people have a lot of spare goods and teams could help the ones that didn't to replenish.

So now we're back to how we were in the pre-teleport days, in a sense, it just plays out differently and is now much more costly. To compete with the top echelon of FA teams now you not only have to burn through all your time boosters and any CCs you saved up, but you also have to burn through a lot of diamonds, because you can craft every recipe you see for a week and you still won't have made enough Arcane Residue badges. This prices all but the most crazy FA nutters out of the market, when looking at those top positions.

The kicker is - Those teams are still building shanty towns as big as they always did. They're just now spending big to produce enough Arcane Residues to match the numbers of workshop and manu badges that they're capable of making.

I started to get into it as well. But, with the tournament changes, "getting into it" has a huge cost to your tournament because of the way they slaughtered your game resources with the new tournament. You could support your teammates that were stuck on resources and the FA hurt, but now it just hurts everyone.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I don´t want INNO to encourage "demolish city and build L1 buildings" in any way.
If they reduced the buildtime of L1 factories, then it should be becourse they think it would be good for general gameplay. NOT to promote "unnatual" cityplanning to accomodate FA

It doesn't promote anything.
Reducing the annoying 40s wait time won't change how the big boys play, it will just make it a little less tedious for everyone.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Some of you are trying to tie this into the big picture about how the FA should be and really it's a tiny Quality of Life improvement that won't be nearly as earth-shattering as some of you all make it out to be.

No one disagrees on the fact that the FA is flawed. Almost everyone is on board that the long time badges in level 1 buildings are... less than ideal.
Making that part a little less tedious is not casting your approval on the bad badges that we'd like replaced, it is something minor to improve the game until that takes place.

Remember how much declining 16 quests in order to get to the badge you wanted sucked? Well, the new badge collection system makes that less tedious too. It also "promotes" the making of more badges the same way that my request does, so would you like to go back to the declining quests system? Maybe add in all the new badges, make it 21 declines? Why not add in 5 more "Awesome" pop-ups every time you hand in a badge too? That'll disincentivize making a lot of badges, right?

 

[CrazyWizard]

Some of you are trying to tie this into the big picture about how the FA should be and really it's a tiny Quality of Life improvement that won't be nearly as earth-shattering as some of you all make it out to be.

because it legitimises that type of play, if such a change would be implemented it would mean they will no longer look at it and improve in the future.
You do not make a change unless it has a meaning. I want it to evolve, I do not want to see a signal that tells yes from now on it's all 500 factories4ever.
so for me 10 seconds is not just a QoL thing, but a step backwards instead of forwards.

 

[SoggyShorts]

That's just your perception of it, and you have absolutely no way of knowing how others including the developers will see it.
Neither do I, but at least my idea does have a guaranteed and immediate positive to it.

 

[Pauly7]

Some of you are trying to tie this into the big picture about how the FA should be and really it's a tiny Quality of Life improvement that won't be nearly as earth-shattering as some of you all make it out to be.

Apologies for the thread-hijacking.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Apologies for the thread-hijacking.

Ha! With the number of threads I've derailed, I of all people am never allowed to get angry about that.

This just happens to be another change that would be positive for 99% of players but gets shot down by special interest groups and for reasons not even related to the idea itself.

I have mostly given up on the sweeping changes that we all want since those take years to implement and when they are the end product barely resembles what we asked for anyways.

 

[Walking]

So with 5 builders, building 200 manufactories would take about 30 minutes (maybe a little more if I, at the same time, rearrange my city, build roads, and help neighbors, etc)...about the same amount of time I spent reading this thread, lol. Would I want it to take less time? Sure. Was the time wasted? No.