City Rebalancing AWs

[PaNonymeB]

Idea :
The power of AWs is meant to grow with game progress, but it actually is scaled on factors like completed provinces, squad size and MH level that doesn't reflect the power of the city very accurately. I'd purpose to instead scale AW production on factors more relevant of the power of the city, like chapter progress and expansions.
AWs concerned would be Tome (supplies per scout), Abyss (coins), Excavation (supplies), C. Lighthouse/Bell Spire (goods in NH chests), Bulwark (LM troops and training size), Prosp. Towers (supplies per 3h), Forge (orcs), Shrooms (LR troops), Academy (Mage troops), Embassy (mana per scout), Abbey (mana per spell), Maze (mana per 3h), Toads (HR troops produced), ETC (seeds), Sunset (seeds per NH chest), Pyramid (HM troops), Arena (drone riders).
I think wonders that give population/culture based on active population/culture are already fine (active population/culture already is constrained by tech level and city size - perhaps these would in fact be even better as base scale for AWs, tournament and Spire)

Pros :
More consistent with the tournament/spire formula that makes each AW level increase costs by a number depending on research and expansions
Increases the incentive to place expansions and to progress in tech tree (what is expected to be benefitial)
Increases incentive to buy premium expansions

Cons :
Requires a lot of rebalancing work
Greatly reduces incentive to complete provinces (at least past the last expansion)

 

[PaNonymeB]

No comments there... what do you think about this idea ?

 

[Deleted User - 81672]

-1

Requires a lot of rebalancing work

 

[Richord]

no need. only change in wonders; change specs of CL back to before.
and you mention stuf that's progress too. I do not see a big difference.
If you think it's worth explaining; come up with some numbers for now and after the change.
Explain with facts how this would be a great chang

 

[Lovec Krys]

I'm afraid that the only thing we would get would be that wonders would be nerfed even more then they already are (tournament and Spire penalty).
I just don't want to choose between tearing down Golden Abyss & Mountain Halls (for example) and quitting because someone would have "rebalanced" (=nerfed) their pop to 1/2, 1/3 or even 1/5 of the current values.

 

[PaNonymeB]

no need. only change in wonders; change specs of CL back to before.
and you mention stuf that's progress too. I do not see a big difference.
If you think it's worth explaining; come up with some numbers for now and after the change.
Explain with facts how this would be a great chang

The idea was to try limiting the situations where expansions/AWs aren't interesting because you have a lot of AWs/expansions. In fact, the benefits and the penalty from each AW should be scaled on the same factor, not on different measures of progress that can be exploited so that one is high and the other is low. It indeed should be not a big difference except for cities that try to exploit the tournament formula.

 

[Yogi Dave]

I very much like an AW's ability which is increased by a game metric to be one that is associated with that ability, not some general game metric. The differences give texture to the AWs and have directed some of my game play, giving me more choices as to how to develop my city which draws me into the game more. It sounds like what you are proposing might make the game easier, but less compelling.

Even if I did like the proposed change, I think it would infuriate a large section of the community. The uproar would be much worse than the spring of '17 when there was a major change in how AWs progressed. It might even drown out the uproar that is currently going on about the tourney changes. It certainly would cause many to just throw up their hands in surrender.

It indeed should be not a big difference except for cities that try to exploit the tournament formula.

Exploit? Is that what this is about? The changes in the tourney? First, choosing one AW over another to improve your city in one way or another is not exploiting. Second, that's each individual's choice of their game play. Why does that bother you? You still play your game your way and they get to play their way. Third, much of what has been talked about of not advancing your city or not placing expansions to improve tourney scores sounds like a very very boring game. I tend to think that talk is not so much about using it as a strategy, but is more about expressing why the tourney changes are not good and blowing off steam about it. I think the consequences of your proposed change being implemented would just damaged the game that much more.

 

[PaNonymeB]

First, choosing one AW over another to improve your city in one way or another is not exploiting.

I never said this. I was thinking of voluntarily not placing expansions because it currenly only increases the costs for each AW without increasing benefits for most of them.

 

[Yogi Dave]

I never said this.

Sorry, misunderstood.

 

[PaNonymeB]

I think it would infuriate a large section of the community. The uproar would be much worse than the spring of '17 when there was a major change in how AWs progressed. It might even drown out the uproar that is currently going on about the tourney changes. It certainly would cause many to just throw up their hands in surrender.

Not sure why do you think it would create such an uproar. Actually, one of the reasons I didn't want to ask for a change on population/culture wonders was to avoid players suddenly being in negative pop/culture. Maybe casual players won't even notice such a change in other production wonders unless indeed Inno makes it a huge nerf.

 

[CrazyWizard]

Idea :
The power of AWs is meant to grow with game progress, but it actually is scaled on factors like completed provinces, squad size and MH level that doesn't reflect the power of the city very accurately. I'd purpose to instead scale AW production on factors more relevant of the power of the city, like chapter progress and expansions.
AWs concerned would be Tome (supplies per scout), Abyss (coins), Excavation (supplies), C. Lighthouse/Bell Spire (goods in NH chests), Bulwark (LM troops and training size), Prosp. Towers (supplies per 3h), Forge (orcs), Shrooms (LR troops), Academy (Mage troops), Embassy (mana per scout), Abbey (mana per spell), Maze (mana per 3h), Toads (HR troops produced), ETC (seeds), Sunset (seeds per NH chest), Pyramid (HM troops), Arena (drone riders).
I think wonders that give population/culture based on active population/culture are already fine (active population/culture already is constrained by tech level and city size - perhaps these would in fact be even better as base scale for AWs, tournament and Spire)

Pros :
More consistent with the tournament/spire formula that makes each AW level increase costs by a number depending on research and expansions
Increases the incentive to place expansions and to progress in tech tree (what is expected to be benefitial)
Increases incentive to buy premium expansions

Cons :
Requires a lot of rebalancing work
Greatly reduces incentive to complete provinces (at least past the last expansion)

Someone is begging for another huge nerf

 

[galrond]

That some wonders uses SS, MH-level and provinces completed, make those "milestones" more interesting.
If completing provinces beyond 500 (last expansion) didn´t matter, why bother?
If SS only affected map encounters (and you have 500 provinces), why bother?
MH-level would still matter, when it decides how much coin/supplies you get from NH.
I like different aspects of the game have direct impact.
I won´t protest if expansions got a direct impact too, but it shouldn´t outfase another aspect.
Maybe an idea for chapter 17 AW

 

[PaNonymeB]

I'm thinking of closing this thread. The two reasons for this are

• The risk for this idea to be used as a pretext for a big AW nerf is too high
• This idea will probably take so long to be put in place that the calcuation for costs of tournaments and Spire will be changed by then

These should NEVER be reasons to ask for closing a suggestion thread and this should clearly show that something is going wrong.

 

[edeba]

Huh? Scale the AW to chapter? Seriously, some are very much already scaled to chapter. When you get a benefit that is a percent of where you are at, as where you are at increases, so does the benefit increase.

Something like the Hero's forge really is under performing in later chapters, especially compared to its power in earlier chapters. The increases in required orcs increases orders of magnitude faster than your ability to scout provinces and increase the out put of the Heroe's forge, and there is zero chapter scaling for this one, but the Golden Abyss gets a percentage of the capacity of your coin, so every Main Hall upgrade, it scales with the chapter, and as your population and working population increase, it scales with that as well.

 

[Marindor]

Our game team continuesly monitors the balancing and for now we have no intention of making these changes, so I'll archive this thread.