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Discussion Proposed trading star rating changes

DeletedUser1657

Guest
walking said:
You might want to also change the "Did you know..." that says that crafted goods are four times as expensive to produce as basic goods.
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Why, this statement is correct? They could reword it differently to account for "value" verse cost, but I bet that would confuse more people than just leaving it. Other option is to just remove that hint and leave people in blessed ignorance :)

maxiqbert said:
usually you can trade 4*less or 4*more than the fair value
so, if the official fair value is changed, it would be logical to be able to change the limitations accordingly

with a 1.5:1 ratio beween t1 and t2 you could go from 6t1 for 1 t2 to 3t1 for 8t2
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Your assuming the restriction is 4:1 of fair value and not 4:1 of cost, which it might be. The change of the star rating will force a change on cross-tier trades. Anyone doing even the current 2 star ratio would show up as a 0 or 1 star trade and be highly unlikely to be taken except by arrangement or miss click.

Does anyone know how the 0 and 1 star trade values are determined, curious how it will be applied in this case

Richord said:
well; fine by me. rethink the amount of production costs and DONE:D
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This is where the filter was the best and simplest option. It would have removed these trades from those who don't care for them and left them there for those wanting to use them. Funny thing is I see plenty of cross-tier trades in sentient goods and they turn over pretty quickly that people must be taking them. Is there a different tolerance for sentient than for normal goods? I would assume the value is the same ratio as they come from the same building?
 
maxiqbert

maxiqbert

Well-Known Member
Mykan said:
This is where the filter was the best and simplest option. It would have removed these trades from those who don't care for them and left them there for those wanting to use them. Funny thing is I see plenty of cross-tier trades in sentient goods and they turn over pretty quickly that people must be taking them. Is there a different tolerance for sentient than for normal goods? I would assume the value is the same ratio as they come from the same building?
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it's even less fair for sentient goods, since the seeds cost is more or less the same for t4 t5 or t6
but when you have needs, the cost is not the real issue
 

DeletedUser2632

Guest
the only way I see the whole thing is in terms of time. I don't care about gold and supplies, they are free to make. for simplicity sake, let's assume all three tiers get made at the same rate (output/time). Why would I give 16x of T1 for 1x of T3, when it cost me 16x the amount of time to make? anyone who thinks that's a good deal must have too much time on their hands to spare.

I do see also, of course, that how valuable a good is and thus how much a person is willing to pay for it, depends on the game's demands on that good. But the demands seem to be somewhat cyclic (e.g. in Elementals, I needed T1 most, but in Amuni, I found that I needed more of T2), to the extent that having a roughly balanced number of factories will see you through the chapters just fine. So it's still down to the time factor for me
 

DeletedUser1657

Guest
RandomNo. said:
I do see also, of course, that how valuable a good is and thus how much a person is willing to pay for it, depends on the game's demands on that good.
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Yep, it also depends on that town and a person's assessment of their situation, I would be in the minority of people who regularly trades up with cross-tier at the current ratio. Doesn't bother me in the slightest as I am always reviewing my towns situation and making decisions I feel best move it forward.

Unsure how the change will impact me as it throws out the coins/supplies balance between tiers. This should have a much smaller impact on my end-tech town, its my smaller towns that will be more impacted (unsure positive or negative) as small towns have a greater reliance on coins/supplies balance.
 

DeletedUser1278

Guest
I say no change on the ratio.
This will only benifit the players who play for ranking .
Why ?? because they only build the fabrics what gives most points .
They dont care about goods have millions coins or tools

What the best solution will be is only t1 for t1 t2 for t2 and the rest.
And that is possible to do.
Then there wil be no more x tier possible and that is our pain in the asss.
Then the whole market is changed and is fair to all.

And not only benefits big time players like me.
Or al players can build only T1 fo the quests (what are boring allready)
And get cheap t2 t3 that would really unbalance the game. there is no need for t2 or t3 in quests (not possible)
 
Dhurrin

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
@mike2910
Incorrect. It's not about ranking points. Please read my earlier post about the ACTUAL COST of production.

Yes, a lot of high-ranking players have way more T3 factories that give more ranking points. No problem with that. Not to mention it is irrelevant since this game does not actually reward being in a top-ranking place anyway.
The problem is that T3 goods require only marginally more pop, culture and space to produce while supposedly being worth 16x as much. This is the main reason there are so many crosstier trades on the board and 99% in 1 direction; T3 offered and T2 or T1 wanted. There is no problem with crosstiers being offered, but if the ratio were correct one would see them go both ways since it would be value for value. Changing the ratio will not harm any players, it just corrects an issue that has been a topic for discussion for years.
The only 'problem' it may cause is that some players who have for a long time been profiting by only producing T3 and having other suckers fill their needs for T1 and T2 which are hugely less profitable to produce yourself will now have more trouble getting their stuff together. Well, they have for years had a good run, so if they have to adapt now that is only fair. They can still continue producing only T3, they just will not get as much back anymore.
 

DeletedUser1657

Guest
mike2910 said:
What the best solution will be is only t1 for t1 t2 for t2 and the rest.
And that is possible to do.
Then there wil be no more x tier possible and that is our pain in the asss.
Then the whole market is changed and is fair to all.
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Not really. it is very common for human players in chapter 2/3 to place cross-tier trades as they reach a need for T3 goods prior to having that technology. If they were to ban cross tier they really would need to adjust the tech tree for humans as well. Elves don't really have this issue as their tech tree is structured differently.
 

DeletedUser1278

Guest
The change in tech three is possible to if must.
The hole meaning of complaning on every forum is x tier !!

The change they want now has nothing to do with that . If they want to stop the complaning this is to only solution that works.
And the words its very common for humans to place x tier then the humans must have a different game then elves.

And that is not the x tier that is the problem its t3 for t1 and t3 for t2 t6 for t4 and t6 for t5 that is the problem.
This is making profit of other players or starting players .. your t2 for t3 is not a profit you give

The way they want to change the way with cost is true but we are used to that
In calculation only tools is 4 t1 some cost as 1 t3 . but knowing inno the dont change that now for us there is a bigger picture like many times before.

But that is future worries
Change it 4.2.1 will deeply change the game balance from basic
Why build t2 or t3 no need anymore because is cheap to get t2 t3 so from chapter 2 or 3 what @Mykan is telling the problem is gone we dont need t2 or t3 anymore . So more t1 fabrics for the boring and deeply the same quest because no need t2 and t3

so think before you change the game
You now im a cheater @mirandor and always will be and im a rebel but this will be not a good idea because i see to many benefits
 
Dhurrin

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
@mike2910
You seem to be completely missing the point of the reason for the change
Right now, the game is hugely stacked in favor of crosstiertrades as T3 is way cheaper to produce than T2 or T1, yet the value is way higher.
By changing the value the game will actually become more balanced and will take care of a good amount of those cross-tier offers. I do expect to still see them, but I will expect to see them balanced out, seeing more offers of T1 and asking for T2 or T3 instead of pretty much seeing 99% offers of T3 and asking T2 and T1.
Yes, it will have an impact on the game. And yes, there may be a need to make some changes in the techtree and the quests to balance the requirements for the different tier goods. That however is peanuts and easily implemented after -or at the same time- this screwed up ratio is fixed.
 

DeletedUser1278

Guest
excactly there will be no need for t2 or t3
That is the impact. in the quest like winter event there is no quest what specific asks for t2 or t3 because they cant do that at this moment then smaller players cant play the event maybe they try to make it chapter based.
butt when it will ne that childish like winter event pfffffff

I dont have t2 t3 on my account ( other server) and got 20 wishingwels

Butt i told my story i dont care if its comes or not
But in my head there is the bigger picture why now after 5 years what is inno not telling at this moment.
because they like to push the players to play there way of the game.

giving a great idea lets do this for the players they complain about 5 years on it butt them we can do this plan ourselfes
I hope they plan something because the game is only in repeat mode for years

collect 4000 wood or that old shit 1 factory allready gives 7200 change the quets on the side
putt your fabrics on 3 ours and then there is nothing to do in the game tournament its 1 day
sphere only round one use the bufs and get it back its only repeat repeat repeat nothing else no lets say a special island where there is an adenture waiting all day when you want to play something like long time ago offered as idea from a moderator

why play sphere 3 rounds dont need the price why play 9000 points tournament 1600 is enough in good FS that is 10 chest

i liked the game for the graphics still am but its boring
 
Lovec Krys

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
why play sphere 3 rounds dont need the price
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There are those who find those prices usefull. Especialy with the FS rewards (if FS is active enough to get majority of the rewards).
why play 9000 points tournament 1600 is enough in good FS that is 10 chest
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You can get much more from tournament than just 10th chest. Of course there is the Blueprint in the 10th chest, but players doing top tournament scores don't do such a big score to get the 10th chest, for them the 10th chest is a standard thing. With the high scores they usualy aim for one or more of these goals:
Relics for MA5 24/7 spell creation (for MM spell you need over 7k points to sustain your relic level, if you create only them)
Enough runes for every wonder (this is usualy just side effect of high tourney score)
More KPs for wonders (natural generation is 168/week, you can get several hundreds more from tournament). There's never enough KPs for your wonders.
Ranking points from tournament's top positions.
Simply the feel of being first in that tournament round (this is usualy one-time goal reason).

Anyway back to the topic: There are basicaly three groups in this thread:
1st group doesn't want to change the current ratio (usualy because they are posting the cross tier trades)
2nd group want the change to 1:2:4 (proposed ratio) (either they think this is most fair or they belong to the 1st or 3rd group and finds this as good enough compromise)
3rd group wants the change to 1.5:2 (either they think it's fair or they just want to completely remove cross tier trades)

Since it's impossible to calculate proper ratio since it varies over chapters - it's different for lower chapters which are still dependant heavily on tools creation and different for higher chapters - not so dependant on tools (but even end game players cannot completely ignore them - just watch what Spire negotiating can do with them), but even for them the exact ratio changes each chapter (we have Tx upgrade every 3 chapters and the standard (T1-3) and expired (T4-6) goods ratio is also different).
So by my opinion to choose the 2nd group as the one satisfying most players is the best option.
 
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cpickett76

cpickett76

Active Member
I hope you intend to remove the multiple wholesaler trade quests from future events. If not, I don't see many wanting to complete 7-12 wholesaler trades because of the increased expense and it would be extremely unfair to expect us to do so!
 

alainemk

Well-Known Member
Still not seeing this update, wasn't it suppose to go in yesterday? I do show an update date of this morning but no changes in trader or wholesaler.
 
Ashrem

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
Konniver said:
it is often to the annoyance of uninterested parties seeing them in their trade feed
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It's also to the annoyance of people who take them when they didn't intend to because the listing bounced weirdly or their mouse stuttered on a click. It's also annoying to the FS mates of players who take them because they think they are a good deal, or adjust their production to follow suit, and then are perennially short of what they need on the lower tiers and complaining because other people aren't interested in accepting them the same way.
 
CrazyWizard

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
We have made this decision because we want to invest more time in verifying what changes would be required to quests related to the Wholesaler, in an effort to ensure that they do not become too difficult with the intended changes. To achieve the level of quality and internal testing we would want, we would have to spend more time on the topic than we currently can. That is why we decided to temporarily postpone the changes to the Wholesaler and decouple them from the star ratio changes.
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Good to see that this feedback was picked up properly, and that the changes weren't pushed anyway without properly verifiying the potential problem. deciding to "fix it somewhere down the line" (read some some day, somewhere in the future, maybe)
Even if the end decision is not the one we like, I love the fact that it was picked up and handled this way.

Keep on doing this, I like it.
 
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