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Other "Produce" Pet Food in the MA as well as craft it.

Karvest

Well-Known Member
Even doubling amount of pet food won't change it much, you would still have the same choice: either feed brown bear one more time or feed this phoenix, and the effect of feeding phoenix without timewarp is x6 times smaller than with it (x3 times smaller for fire phoenix). So this is anyway a huge push for all the players to grow up to at least timewarp, unless we would be so awashed by pet food that stop counting it at all. Sad that there is nothing like this in later chapters, which makes progressing past ch15 bad for your tourney/spire performance.
 

CiraKelley

Well-Known Member
+1 Something like the Trading Outpost where you could choose between receiving portal profits or pet food collection, that you can also craft in the magic academy would be great. Or something similar to that idea anyway...while not taking away the current pet food craft recipes, mind you.
I know we would probably never have the option to produce pet food like we do with other enchantments, but having something along the lines of an expiring building that gives pet food seems like a good compromise for all.
 

Thunder Ray

Active Member
I don't get why a player should have to wait a year (in order to get Timewarp) so they can have full benefit of dawn phoenix just by feeding it once/week. If you manage to get to stage 10, you should get full benefit immediately and it should last the gameplay week. Barring that Inno extends the time frame for the feeding effect to 5 days, multiple feedings are the alternative as we are doing with Fire phoenix.

During that growing year, I had to feed one Fire phoenix 2-3 times a week for Tourney and Spire, not to mention the other building feeding options. The new Dawn phoenix may be only beneficial for the Spire due to time constraints but that is also only for players who have many time boosts every week. Most players take the week to climb the Spire, so its again, not as beneficial. I know of players who have been in the game for years and have a high score and still don't have enough PF. Not every full capacity FS have fully active players so they don't reap the Spire rewards they could, so diamonds and boosts are limited.

I'm not casual but not extreme, either. I'm online daily and have worked hard to get to Constructs in over a year. I don't even entertain the possibility of a push account (don't really understand them) and I have implemented as much advice from elder players as I could but this game has a LOT of variability and everyone has different skills. Players who use good strategies can get ahead faster or make use of resources more efficiently and they are rewarded for their abilities by having excess of very useful buildings or boosts or PF. Great for them! Kudos for their brilliance.

Now, rather than leave it at that, moderate players would like a little help with a few more PF. Some just need it to be able to do routine fighting every week and others might want to finally use the other buildings that have the feeding effect.

The beneficiaries of this improvement won't be OP and challenge the elite players since the current situation is one of scarcity and the addition of a little extra PF brings availability up to maybe break-even levels. Granted, a few more players will be able to start to store more but actual gameplay will not improve enough to significantly be considered OP. It will, however, be significant to reducing the stress and frustration of not fighting well enough to reach top of Spire or get 10+ chests on Tourney AND also be significant for the opportunity to use other PF buildings.

An improvement that has little to no benefit for a superlative minority who already have many advantages like excess PF or multiple useful buildings with excess boosts should not be discounted as not needed. If it doesn't harm them, then it should only be evaluated on the basis of what good it can do for the majority.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Balance is possible. we would like some pet food. players want more than the crap luck we currently have, and should enjoy their pets more often. Again, happy if you are that one lucky player who experiences boat loads of craft-able pet food, this is not about you.

Whether or not pet food affects my personal decisions on which pets i feed or personal strategy for pet food use, i see an extreme lack of Pet Food, I recognize the struggle of average players,

This sounds so very familiar to the expansion problem.

Also luck is not involved in here. everyone gets the on a yearly basis the same amound of chances to make petfood (if you are online to see those chances is something else)

In the end it's a finite resource that you can only selectively use.
In the end there are way more options to use it on than you'll ever have petfood. it doesn't matter if someone has 15 fire phoenixes or 1 wise owl, a moonbear, icebear, pandabear, red panda, storm phoenix, aureate phoenix, fire phoenix, ash phoenix ect.
In each of those cases you have to choose where to spend your "rare" pet food on and how many times and when.

If we just throw in "unlimited" petfood then the game will assumme you have all those pets and activate all those pets and balance accordingly.
AKA you get your unlimited petfood but at the same time eveything else in the game becomes more expensive to counter that.

We have seen this all the time. you ask you get and it's take away at some other place.
There are simply to many pets and since we love them many more to come in the future. do you know how expensive zoo's are to maintain?

In the end the struggle is where to spend them, not how much you have of them.
Just like expansions, what to build in the aviable space now how many you have.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I'm not casual but not extreme, either. I'm online daily and have worked hard to get to Constructs in over a year. I don't even entertain the possibility of a push account (don't really understand them) and I have implemented as much advice from elder players as I could but this game has a LOT of variability and everyone has different skills. Players who use good strategies can get ahead faster or make use of resources more efficiently and they are rewarded for their abilities by having excess of very useful buildings or boosts or PF. Great for them! Kudos for their brilliance.
Getting to contructs in a year does make you qualify as a 1% player ;) aka extreme lol.

But I agree that timewarp comes many chapter too late. it would have been so great if it was a chapter 4 wonder. not for the pets. but also so give people slack in there tournament schedule.

Ps. if you are already talking about pets + timewarp do you know how many not 1% players have a very high level timewarp?
 

TomatoeHu

Well-Known Member
"Luck" may have a number associated to it, everyone understands that there is a formula, a percentage chance. Yes there is math, we are simply saying it could be better than it is now. The current chance of Pet food applied to each refresh in the MA is currently not high enough. With the same odds all year, can really be "not fun" "Most of the Time"

No one is asking for unlimited food.

It has been pointed out that it wouldn't actually hurt the game because, feeding effects don't stack or unbalance the game. The feeding effects are not overpowered when using several different ones. No one actually cares if player AAAA feeds all their fire phoenixes, they were doing that anyways. without the extra pet food.

Perhaps feeding effects can be changed to working only once per city. Example player with more than one fire phoenix can only feed one, for one effect. Then no abuse could happen. Right now, one of each Pet is not the actual problem and we are not asking to feed one of each pet, no one is asking for unlimited pet food use. If there is a problem, please name the Exact Pets and quantities that ruin the game for everyone so we can see the actual percentage of players that would benefit/lose from said equation. Then perhaps we should nerf those buildings so we ca enjoy a better variety of pets in our city. Its really easy to say its "not necessary" to have more pet food available, but where is the proof that it is Not?

Yes, we are talking about possibly feeding a few extra times a week, but yet again, not asking for all the pets.

Yes there are too many pets to own and we would like to Feed a few a week. Not all of them, Not asking for unlimited pet food, not wanting to place and feed them all

Yes, players must choose the space in their city, and if we so choose to place more pets, why cant we chose to feed them on a rotational basis that makes sense to our needs as a player? What actual, real, harm can be mentioned? Please, list all and any actual, foreseeable, tangible, unacceptable problems here, for all to read, that may, somehow arise from the ability to feed Specific pets in Specific quantities weekly? Pass a chart that shows when X is fed, then Y problem exists and the game is broken. Where is the actual data and numbers on these crushing, overpowered pets we all have packed away, unused in our inventory?

There are many games with Zoo features, and those are really fun, but that isn't what we are talking about, but may be an excellent addition to elvenar, but separate from the pet food issue.

Some players are struggling to feed a few pets, which is why we are asking for a bit more

Whether I have enough or anyone has enough, there are players with not enough pet food. A small adjustment, somewhere, can be fair, balanced and help players who are not seeing the pet food often enough. We should all be objective enough to admit something could be done, in some small way, miniscule or new content added to make it less frustrating to feed a few pets.

*decrease the 5hr time on the MA ( not a popular idea but still possible)
*increase the odds but implement a cap on the number weekly possible
*slightly increase the percentage now, nudge that number up and lets see how bad it gets in a week.
offer it to Select Players to test - perhaps players with no double bases
*cap daily, weekly, monthly pet food if necessary to increase the frequency.
*limit how many of each duplicate pets we can feed
*create a Food Exhaustion Meter that caps weekly feed effects. only time can refill the bar/meter/quota

Something can be done to increase frequency, balance and continue to provide enjoyment to the game, i am sure of that ♥
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Why do we have pet food if you do not have to make choices? in that case we can make pets feeding effect just work 24/7 and ignore petfood at all don't we?

Pet food is about making choices and not have all powers active 24/7.
Why do we think certain pets arent good enoug?

Because it's not "worth" my valueable pet food.
Some powers are really nice, you could even say OP if it was always active. but it ain't
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
I see a lot of differences between people who have a polar bear and people who don't.

I don't. I have a timewarp, but realistically, I can only reduce things to 2x / day and do spire/tourney over 3 days. Ideally, I use 3 pet food for the fire phoenix / week, but sometimes it slips to 4 due to real-life schedule issues. I try to hit the new recipes every 6 hours, but realistically, I only get 3x/day.

That used to be enough, and I tried to keep even at 20-30 pet food, which gave room for variation. Lately, I've been getting less pet food, and my supplies have been slowly dwindling. (I don't know if I've been unlucky, or if there is less pet food on offer now.)

Things are tight. If you have all the advantages, then I can see how you built up a stockpile. If you have some advantages, you can maybe break even. But it's still tight, and not everyone has a polar bear.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I see a lot of differences between people who have a polar bear and people who don't.

I don't. I have a timewarp, but realistically, I can only reduce things to 2x / day and do spire/tourney over 3 days. Ideally, I use 3 pet food for the fire phoenix / week, but sometimes it slips to 4 due to real-life schedule issues. I try to hit the new recipes every 6 hours, but realistically, I only get 3x/day.

That used to be enough, and I tried to keep even at 20-30 pet food, which gave room for variation. Lately, I've been getting less pet food, and my supplies have been slowly dwindling. (I don't know if I've been unlucky, or if there is less pet food on offer now.)

Things are tight. If you have all the advantages, then I can see how you built up a stockpile. If you have some advantages, you can maybe break even. But it's still tight, and not everyone has a polar bear.

those with the ability to use less petfood for the same effect will always have an advantage over those that do not.
rewarding for example 4 extra pet food a week does not change that.

For example it would be more power to me as I can waste petfood at something else that is good now or in the future.
Being more efficient with your petfood is the best way to get more out of them and a nice goal to work to over time
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
those with the ability to use less petfood for the same effect will always have an advantage over those that do not.
rewarding for example 4 extra pet food a week does not change that.

For example it would be more power to me as I can waste petfood at something else that is good now or in the future.
Being more efficient with your petfood is the best way to get more out of them and a nice goal to work to over time

What you say is true, but I think you may be missing my point:

Someone with all the advantages may not see just how tight things are. I am trying to conserve, but I now seem to be slowly losing ground, even with those conservation efforts. 4 extra pet food a week has a much higher utility for me than someone who has a polar bear -- I won't have to worry about running out. Just 1 extra pet food a week would be a big deal for me. (Aside: I'm still not sure if I've started losing ground because I've been unlucky or because pet food appears less often now.)

As an additional point, there are all these pets that go unused because there isn't enough pet food to feed them. I feel like that's a design flaw -- lots of options that cannot effectively be used because the economy is too tight.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
What you say is true, but I think you may be missing my point:

Someone with all the advantages may not see just how tight things are. I am trying to conserve, but I now seem to be slowly losing ground, even with those conservation efforts. 4 extra pet food a week has a much higher utility for me than someone who has a polar bear -- I won't have to worry about running out. Just 1 extra pet food a week would be a big deal for me. (Aside: I'm still not sure if I've started losing ground because I've been unlucky or because pet food appears less often now.)

As an additional point, there are all these pets that go unused because there isn't enough pet food to feed them. I feel like that's a design flaw -- lots of options that cannot effectively be used because the economy is too tight.
I know how tight it is, but I am sure thats by design.
Just like "not enough expansions" topics pop up, just as often will these topics about pet food pop up.
Anyting that is a limited resource will always get this controversy.

If you lack petdoot already than it means you are using to much. we should not add more pet food but you should make tougher choices where to spend it on.
This is also a method of reigning in pets as you have to make tough choices which to feed and which not.

1 huge factor about how many petfood you get is making sure you see all 4 recipe cycles a day. if you miss 1 per day you could be really screwed if it keeps popping up in that cycle you might get the petfood but not making it because you failed to see it. it might be very wise to spend those 50 diamonds to set the cycling time at such a time that it fits in your RL schedule.

ps. each time I see these topics pop up, I lough about the time people complained we got too much petfood, and they reduced it
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
I know how tight it is, but I am sure thats by design.
Just like "not enough expansions" topics pop up, just as often will these topics about pet food pop up.
Anyting that is a limited resource will always get this controversy.

If you lack petdoot already than it means you are using to much. we should not add more pet food but you should make tougher choices where to spend it on.
This is also a method of reigning in pets as you have to make tough choices which to feed and which not.

1 huge factor about how many petfood you get is making sure you see all 4 recipe cycles a day. if you miss 1 per day you could be really screwed if it keeps popping up in that cycle you might get the petfood but not making it because you failed to see it. it might be very wise to spend those 50 diamonds to set the cycling time at such a time that it fits in your RL schedule.

ps. each time I see these topics pop up, I lough about the time people complained we got too much petfood, and they reduced it

I think this comparison is dismissive and unreasonable. I think expansions and space are nowhere near as tight as pet food is.

In an ideal week, I use 3 pet food on my fire phoenix. And you're telling me that's too much. Yes, some weeks, I spend a fourth pet food when my real life schedule causes me to be unable to log in as frequently as I would need to. Yes, my schedule usually doesn't allow me to see four sets of recipes most days -- some days, yes, but certainly not all, and I miss one more often that I get all 4. (Spending diamonds will not help, since my schedule is not uniform.)

My point is that I'm not making tough decisions about where to spend pet food because I don't have enough to make a decision on -- fire phoenix and nothing else! My only flaw is that my schedule does interfere with my playtime, but only to an extent that I consider reasonable for most people.

And every other aspect of the game can be worked around with my schedule, except for pet food. This is a difference, and I consider that an issue I have with the game if it does not fit into my schedule. However, that's ridiculous if the only aspect that doesn't work is pet food -- I don't want to have to quit the game because I can't get enough pet food.

And really, I used to have enough until lately, though I still can't say whether that is bad luck or a decrease in availability.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I think this comparison is dismissive and unreasonable. I think expansions and space are nowhere near as tight as pet food is.

In an ideal week, I use 3 pet food on my fire phoenix. And you're telling me that's too much. Yes, some weeks, I spend a fourth pet food when my real life schedule causes me to be unable to log in as frequently as I would need to. Yes, my schedule usually doesn't allow me to see four sets of recipes most days -- some days, yes, but certainly not all, and I miss one more often that I get all 4. (Spending diamonds will not help, since my schedule is not uniform.)

My point is that I'm not making tough decisions about where to spend pet food because I don't have enough to make a decision on -- fire phoenix and nothing else! My only flaw is that my schedule does interfere with my playtime, but only to an extent that I consider reasonable for most people.

And every other aspect of the game can be worked around with my schedule, except for pet food. This is a difference, and I consider that an issue I have with the game if it does not fit into my schedule. However, that's ridiculous if the only aspect that doesn't work is pet food -- I don't want to have to quit the game because I can't get enough pet food.

And really, I used to have enough until lately, though I still can't say whether that is bad luck or a decrease in availability.
No it ain't space is also a resource.

Who sais u "need" to use firebird 3 times a week sometimes 4 times?
You do not need it, you want it.

There is no need, if you do not spend 3-4 petfood your game doesnt crash and stop working.
so it's a choice, 1 way or the other.

Similar for space. people do not need the extra expansions. the game doesnt stop working if you have less.
But people do not want to make space they need and they want what they have and grow and expand that and on top of it also do chapters.

So we get the same kind of topics many times, too few petfood, to few expansions. I cannot do the chapter with this little, I cannot feed my pets as many as i like with this amount of petfood.

It's a very similar conversation. you have X and you cannot spend X+Y
So if you have X+Y targets you need to make a choice where do I spend my X petfood.

And similar with space do I need X planks factories and struggle for space in my city with guest race settlements. or do I take x-3 plank factories and use the rest fo the space for guest race goods.
I obviously cannot have both.

The reason why doesnt really matter, it doesnt matter if I do not have enough diamonds for expansiosn or build myself to big, or because I cannot see enough recipe pools and get not enough or spend more than I can ever get.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I'd like a building that gives a pet food every 48 hours, or even a 3x3 that give 2 per week. With more and more pets, pet food is getting tighter.

There is no point in giving us more buildings that require pet food without more pet food. I suppose there is little benefit from using pet food on a number of the pets, like the storm, aureate, panda bear...
 

ayvinul

Well-Known Member
On a life server I have around 20 pet foods in my inventory and that is enough.
I use 2 of them for every tournament and 1 for a new event.
Some times I win 1 or 2 pet food and on other occasions I make them in my MA.

I only start worrying when I get below 5 of them.

Using two pet foods for the tournament means you get the timewarp high enough to do three rounds in one go (the polar bear is a no-go, since it will also consume a pet food).

Once you reach that stage, and if you have time enough to visit your city 2 or 3 times a day, then yeah, your pet food supply is going to grow.

But you got to realize that a lot of players do not have the timewarp yet, or that they can manage to get through their city just once a day during week days.

It's not a question of using pet food smartly, it's really a question of having enough of them.

Before I had the timewarp, I did struggle getting enough pet food, and I was using them very sparingly.
 

Bor de Wolf 1965

Well-Known Member
Here on beta I manage with 3 pet food a week for I only have the fire Phenix at stage 5 and still I manage to get enough food from the MA.
It all boils down to your play style if that would be enough for you or not.
Even with more pet type structures like I have on life (brown bear, Ice bear, fire Phenix and ashen Phenix) it cones down to when I think it is needed to feed the pets and not when inno expects me to use the pet
 

ayvinul

Well-Known Member
The new Dawn phoenix may be only beneficial for the Spire due to time constraints but that is also only for players who have many time boosts every week. Most players take the week to climb the Spire, so its again, not as beneficial. I know of players who have been in the game for years and have a high score and still don't have enough PF. Not every full capacity FS have fully active players so they don't reap the Spire rewards they could, so diamonds and boosts are limited.

Actually, on average, you gain more time boosts from the spire than you would spend to ascend it in one go. The issue is most often having enough stock/troops so that you can handle all the encounters, but the spire really gives you a lot of time boosts.

I generally choose to time my spire second tier with my one or two phoenix feeds, so that I gain plenty of time boosts.
 

ayvinul

Well-Known Member
Here on beta I manage with 3 pet food a week for I only have the fire Phenix at stage 5 and still I manage to get enough food from the MA.
It all boils down to your play style if that would be enough for you or not.
Even with more pet type structures like I have on life (brown bear, Ice bear, fire Phenix and ashen Phenix) it cones down to when I think it is needed to feed the pets and not when inno expects me to use the pet

Getting 3 pet foods a week from the MA requires you to drop by around every recipe change and a bit of luck. That resource is really scarce. Having plenty of pet foods is a luxury you get when you can afford to drop by very often.
 
Getting 3 pet foods a week from the MA requires you to drop by around every recipe change and a bit of luck. That resource is really scarce. Having plenty of pet foods is a luxury you get when you can afford to drop by very often.

I agree with ayvinul. I'd like more pet food.
Speaking from my own experience, I'm an active player, I make as much pet food as I can and I have strategies for making efficient use of my pet food, but that means I always end up feeding the same pets, and very few of them. That's no fun! And what a waste of building space!
My fellowship has several good and active players who log in twice a day but don't organise their lives around the crafting schedule!
And it's worth remembering that you can be a very active active player and still not want to go through the the research tree at warp speed, so it may take a really long time to get an upgraded timewarp. One of my cities is catering-only, I have chosen to take a long pause at the end of halflings because it gets SO expensive to cater when your city is big and I don't want my tourney and spire performance to go down.
So yes, we all make choices, but it doesn't make sense to design the game around the capacities of people who can play all day every day.
Inno has made several changes to save time, remove tedium, make it possible for more of us to enjoy playing at full stretch - why not add more pet food to the list?
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
If they add just a few more pet food (say, 3/week, as suggested), you will still feed the same pets (fire phoenix, brown bear, polar bear, twilight phoenix if you go far enough in tourney to make it worth feeding). Other pets would be fed only if there would be much more pet food than useful pets can consume.
 
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