• Dear forum reader,

    To actively participate on the forum by joining discussions or starting your own threads or topics, you need a game account and to REGISTER HERE!

Discussion New Spire of Eternity rewards!

Deleted User - 81190

Guest
Yup. @little bee: please provide a source for this statement:
I think the statement was about "removing or limiting the set". Don't know if there were any polls on that, but I can't imagine that a lot of people would be in favor of Inno outright nuking existing sets (I know I wouldn't). This is not the same as switching to different T2 production.
 

little bee

Well-Known Member
@SoggyShorts If you quote me, do me the favor of not taking my words completly out of context. I clearly said that suggestions to remove or limit the set have been repeatedly shot down (see e.g. here). All your exaples are about changing the set, which is something copletely different.

The developers have already repeatedly refused to change the set. And it is far to destructive to remain as it is. So the obvious solution would be to remove or at the very least limit it. But for some reason most players (or at least forum users) keep demanding that it has to stay and just be changed.

For the record: I, personally, would vote to change the set, but I would much prefer to see it removed completely. The reason for that is that the set would still be unbalanced even when changed to bonus+1. The endless scrolls would produce enough T2 goods to make the correstponding factories redundant. Manaplant and gumtree produce enogh mana and seeds to make even the daily prices from events useless, never mind the regular culture buildings. And, honestly, even the massive overproduction of spell fragments gets annoying, especially as it usually feels more like a lack of CCs.

This is simply not a set that should be distributed in unlimited numbers. It is far to overpowered for that and thus increases the gap between casuals and hardcore players too much, which is simply not healthy for a game like this. And, honestly, the randomness in the sets distribution does not help either.

If anything, I wish INNO would not only remove the set completly, but also remove the possibility of upgrading them with RRs. But I realise this will probably not happen.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
If you quote me, do me the favor of not taking my words completly out of context. I clearly said that suggestions to remove or limit the set have been repeatedly shot down
I legit thought that you were referring to changing it, because it wasn't actually clear (you'll note that 2/3 people misinterpreted your intent)
for some reason most players (or at least forum users) keep demanding that it has to stay and just be changed.
The reason is obvious: because the set is good. It's very rare for a player to be selfless enough to want to have something taken away from them for the greater good/health of the game.
Since they removed withing wells as a daily prize the main source of diamonds is the spire, and crafting for Mystical Objects is a significant part of it.
Without any alternative for steady CC production, my MA would turn into a CC factory instantly.

Side note: I think PoPs are too easy to get, does anyone make those in the MA? I think the MA should be used to make various enchantments.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I am pretty sure that I've read some official IG representative mentioned that they have no intention of changing existing Library set. They may consider replacing Spire rewards with something else, perhaps another set. The reasoning being that while changing existing buildings does happen, this is very infrequent occurrence and it requires very serious reasons to do so as players make decisions based on how the buildings work when introduced.

Now, I understand and actually support this sentiment in general. But in this case, changing from fixed T2 production to boost+N T2 production seems like a very minor thing. While I can see a lot of people relying on libraries for T2 production, I doubt that anyone out there relies on libraries to be producing specifically scrolls, and objecting to changing it to boost+N. Same tier trades are trivial, unless massively unbalanced by - wait for it - fixed productions. The lore thing that was also mentioned a few times is not really an issue - come on, we already have mermaids producing steel and amusement rides producing gems, so magical libraries can produce just about anything.

As fas as I know you are right they have no intention to change current sets, and thats a bad thing.
Even if a new and improved library set is introduced today, those existing sets will keep destroying the scroll market for a long long long time.

Even if they "fix" scrolls to bonus +1, it will take a long time before those massive reserves stockpiled in the past year are reduced so that the market will be restored.
But with the current sets keeping production up those reserves will only grow, and never be reduced.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
@SoggyShorts If you quote me, do me the favor of not taking my words completly out of context. I clearly said that suggestions to remove or limit the set have been repeatedly shot down (see e.g. here). All your exaples are about changing the set, which is something copletely different.

The developers have already repeatedly refused to change the set. And it is far to destructive to remain as it is. So the obvious solution would be to remove or at the very least limit it. But for some reason most players (or at least forum users) keep demanding that it has to stay and just be changed.

For the record: I, personally, would vote to change the set, but I would much prefer to see it removed completely. The reason for that is that the set would still be unbalanced even when changed to bonus+1. The endless scrolls would produce enough T2 goods to make the correstponding factories redundant. Manaplant and gumtree produce enogh mana and seeds to make even the daily prices from events useless, never mind the regular culture buildings. And, honestly, even the massive overproduction of spell fragments gets annoying, especially as it usually feels more like a lack of CCs.

This is simply not a set that should be distributed in unlimited numbers. It is far to overpowered for that and thus increases the gap between casuals and hardcore players too much, which is simply not healthy for a game like this. And, honestly, the randomness in the sets distribution does not help either.

If anything, I wish INNO would not only remove the set completly, but also remove the possibility of upgrading them with RRs. But I realise this will probably not happen.
Removal is wat to extreme, if they arent willing to change the set, they surely arent willing to remove it.
 

little bee

Well-Known Member
Removal is wat to extreme, if they arent willing to change the set, they surely arent willing to remove it.
Well, when they introduced the new spire rewards I really hoped they would remove the set, at least in the sense of never distributing any more parts. It would still take a very long time for the game balance to be restored, but at least the problem wouldn't be getting any worse. But it seems they are not even doing that much.:(

The reason is obvious: because the set is good. It's very rare for a player to be selfless enough to want to have something taken away from them for the greater good/health of the game.
Unfortunately you are right. :( But I don't really think it should be considered selfless, when you ask everyone to give something up for everyones benefit. That should just be common sense.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I legit thought that you were referring to changing it, because it wasn't actually clear (you'll note that 2/3 people misinterpreted your intent)

The reason is obvious: because the set is good. It's very rare for a player to be selfless enough to want to have something taken away from them for the greater good/health of the game.
Since they removed withing wells as a daily prize the main source of diamonds is the spire, and crafting for Mystical Objects is a significant part of it.
Without any alternative for steady CC production, my MA would turn into a CC factory instantly.

Side note: I think PoPs are too easy to get, does anyone make those in the MA? I think the MA should be used to make various enchantments.
I almost only make CC in the MA.
 

Pauly7

Well-Known Member
The solution is simple: Leave everyone's existing Spire sets intact with no change. Stop giving out Spire pieces in the Library. Release a whole new set as a Spire prize which is clearly better than the Spire Library set, but with a more sensible production structure. Then everyone gradually removes their old sets to make way for the new ones... No one complains.

I thought this was their plan anyway.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
The solution is simple: Leave everyone's existing Spire sets intact with no change. Stop giving out Spire pieces in the Library. Release a whole new set as a Spire prize which is clearly better than the Spire Library set, but with a more sensible production structure. Then everyone gradually removes their old sets to make way for the new ones... No one complains.

I thought this was their plan anyway.
I'm not certain this would work as well as we'd like. Even if Moonset2.0 was better, what's my motivation for replacing 1.0 instead of just adding the new one?
Presumably, those who have multiple sets placed have done so because the set is better than non-set options, and that wouldn't change.
E.G. My second winter set is better than my first, but I kept both.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I'm not certain this would work as well as we'd like. Even if Moonset2.0 was better, what's my motivation for replacing 1.0 instead of just adding the new one?
Presumably, those who have multiple sets placed have done so because the set is better than non-set options, and that wouldn't change.
E.G. My second winter set is better than my first, but I kept both.

over the course of year(s) you run out of space and are forced to switch.

So yeah it has the same issue, it takes way way way to long before you could see the benefit.

There are only 1 good options:

Change / replace the current set to bonus +1:
 

Pippet

New Member
Hi

I have a small city in beta with a scrolls boost and I would like to ask Inno how they expect me to trade my scrolls for crystal and silk as nothing seems to be working. I have tried posting 3 star trades of scrolls for other tier 2 goods, no one takes them - so I try 3tier 3 star trades for crystal or silk - still not working, tried joining a fellowship, still no-one takes the trades as no-one seems to want scrolls - tried a couple of cross trades with steel, my other boost for silk or crystal and that did work, however I am going to be hard pressed to produce enough steel to trade for both 1st and 2nd tier goods.

The only solution I can come up with is to a. abandon my city and try an new one and hope I get a different boost, or remove my scrolls factories and replace them with several more steel ones. Or perhaps Inno will take pity on me and change my cities boost to either crystal or silk. THEY HAVE CREATED THIS PROBLEM now I would like a viable solution please and I am sure I am not alone.
 

Lelanya

Well-Known Member
Yes @Marindor
This issue @Pippet has raised needs a solution in the immediate future, as in days or weeks, not months or years. On some servers there is a glut of scrolls; on the others there is a perception of a glut of scrolls, which is leading us all in the same direction regardless of what the metrics are showing.
 

little bee

Well-Known Member
Yes @Marindor
This issue @Pippet has raised needs a solution in the immediate future, as in days or weeks, not months or years. On some servers there is a glut of scrolls; on the others there is a perception of a glut of scrolls, which is leading us all in the same direction regardless of what the metrics are showing.
I think we all know that we won't be getting a solution in a matter of weeks. But returning the library set to the spire makes it look like INNO is not even interested in finding a solution that would work in a matter of years. And that is very disapointing.
 

guivou

Well-Known Member
tried a couple of cross trades with steel, my other boost for silk or crystal and that did work, however I am going to be hard pressed to produce enough steel to trade for both 1st and 2nd tier goods.
i see that on lot of cities , remove scroll manufactory and replace by t1 and do cross trade , it's the only solution for scroll boost (advantage it will help for FA, producing more T1 )
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Hi

I have a small city in beta with a scrolls boost and I would like to ask Inno how they expect me to trade my scrolls for crystal and silk as nothing seems to be working. I have tried posting 3 star trades of scrolls for other tier 2 goods, no one takes them - so I try 3tier 3 star trades for crystal or silk - still not working, tried joining a fellowship, still no-one takes the trades as no-one seems to want scrolls - tried a couple of cross trades with steel, my other boost for silk or crystal and that did work, however I am going to be hard pressed to produce enough steel to trade for both 1st and 2nd tier goods.

The only solution I can come up with is to a. abandon my city and try an new one and hope I get a different boost, or remove my scrolls factories and replace them with several more steel ones. Or perhaps Inno will take pity on me and change my cities boost to either crystal or silk. THEY HAVE CREATED THIS PROBLEM now I would like a viable solution please and I am sure I am not alone.
And once you abandon this city, it's put in storage opening up that space for a new DOOMED scroll player.
It's a vicious circle that creates a pit of doom.

i see that on lot of cities , remove scroll manufactory and replace by t1 and do cross trade , it's the only solution for scroll boost (advantage it will help for FA, producing more T1 )
you are correct, but it should not be nessesary to go that route just because you can't sell your scrolls, its a workaround I at least am not happy with.
 

PaNonymeB

Well-Known Member
And once you abandon this city, it's put in storage opening up that space for a new DOOMED scroll player.
It's a vicious circle that creates a pit of doom.
You're right about the world map that forces boosts to be equally represented, which means the issue won't even get better as scrolls players quit.
 

little bee

Well-Known Member
you are correct, but it should not be nessesary to go that route just because you can't sell your scrolls, its a workaround I at least am not happy with.
You are not the only one. This "solution" only spreads the problem to the other goods: Most scroll players are also steel boosted and none are marble boosted. So there is now more steel than marble. Also if silk and crystal players get their T1 goods from crosstrades they have to reduce their T1 productions in favor of T2. Thus they are at a disadvantage in the FA.

I have an other suggestion and I am honestly wondering if it is allowed or not:
Lets assume a silk or crystal player in you fellowship quits and allows you to continue with his/her account. You then remove the account from the fellowship and turn it into one giant T2 factory (i.e. it produces nothing but T2 and the gold / coins needed for it). Then once a month you visite this account as a traveling merchant and trade large amounts of scrolls for the produced silk or crystal. Thus the multiaccount turns large amounts of scrolls into silk or crystal for your fellowship.
So, is that pushing or playing the game as intended?
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
You're right about the world map that forces boosts to be equally represented, which means the issue won't even get better as scrolls players quit.

And as they quit, steel and dust will both get harder to find because of the nine possible boost combinations, three include scrolls. And two of those three include steel and two of them include dust. While one includes planks and one includes elixir. So if anyone sees a shortage of marble, crystal, silk, or gems, it is not the fault of the scrolls players quitting.
 
Top