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Discussion March of the Herds

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
Me neither, it will take a long, long time before the Vallorian Guard will work better for me than my Treants
while thats indeed very true, you could for example use the free valorians in the first 3 stars of the tournament, and do the last 3 stars with treants. That way you would be able to do more provinces then you are doing now.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Orcs
40 bread +236K
20 adv + 295K
10 groceries + 354K
------
885K
I sure how you are at the END of orcs with max level WS.


Next 2 quests will likely ask for
185, then 222K:confused:

For people that don't log in at work these quests will be crippling. #66/67/68 I expect to be even worse.

I see not much harm in the production parts, you produce and use a lot more supplies than most people think.
The pay supplies quests are way much harsher, you will loose a full max supply of your main hall in this event.

so if you are already starved from supplies just because your upgrading your buildings and are evolving your town, it will get much worse.
I'll guess this is there way to tell you to start using your supply spells non stop, and upgrade your magic academy to level 5.

I hope this ain't the way they plan to go with making the magic academy more "usefull" they forcefeeded us that monster before because we needed the pop spells for events (and no reward at tourney existed at that time)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I find it strange that the Pay a good amount of [Tier 1] quests (#10/11/12) ask less then the Pay a good amount of [Tier 2] (#20/21/22) or [Tier 3] (#30/31/32). Since even the tooltip in the loading screen mentions that Tier 2 goods are 4x as expensive as Tier 1 one would expect to need to pay more of Tier 1 > Tier 2 > Tier 3 not the other way around. Accounts who just have reach Tier 3 will have a hard time fulfilling these quest.
 

DeletedUser2074

Guest
Let me preface this post to say: I have been playing this game for more than a year now, enjoy it a lot, and have 2 high rank cities and am Archmage of my own FS in the usual game worlds. So I am a very experienced player.

I came to beta this week, for the first time (finally), to take a gander at the summer event, and to inform my FS what was taking place and what they could expect when it comes to the other worlds. I would like to let you know how the game will strike a new player in the first chapter, which I know isn't a huge percentage, but if you don't take care to satisfy and retain new players, it's lost business. And I know it's a big and almost impossible balancing act to satisfy both new and long-term players.

It's not too challenging to start a city under usual conditions, but when you add the event to the mix of quests, it will feel daunting and overwhelming to a new player. Let me explain.

It was hard enough to get the relics and complete encounters as a new player, without the added expectation of the event. But I hit a wall, being in chapter 1, when it asks for 2 scrolls of provision. I don't even have the ability to build the Magic Academy yet.

One quest asks me to complete Squad size upgrade 2, but to build the academy requires a different route - City expansion 2, which will eventually take me to the Magic Academy, which also requires Advanced Residences. Combined total to get to Magic Academy for those 3 techs alone is 71 KP. Once the academy is built, it takes an additional 24 hours for 2 provision scrolls, IF I even have the relics to make them. So just to get those 2 scrolls is a heavy time investment. I realize there is 4 weeks to complete the quest. But this is the overwhelm and, is it worth it? that a new player might experience.

Now, it's possible that if I did neighbor visits, I could get some provision spells in chests doing visits. However, I'm on the edge of the world and don't have full neighbors. The neighbors I do have are very few in number and all 3 chests have not appeared when doing my neighbor rounds. Because my score is only 700, Fellowships are not likely to include me as a member to do full rounds. The large trades I see are from long-time high ranked members that ignore my little trades for 25 or 50 goods. I cannot fight provinces anymore because I'm too weak. I cannot negotiate provinces because I don't have enough goods (see the goods quests dilemma in the next paragraph). So I can't earn KP nor enough chests to randomly obtain a provision spell.

Some of the quests require 50 goods of my own boosted factory to accomplish. When I barely produce that much in 3 hours, then have to trade to get the other 2 non-boosted goods to complete the 2 succeeding quests, it's very discouraging because I'm left with no goods whatsoever to build my city. If I post 4:1 trades, everyone completely ignores them. As a high ranked player in other worlds, I always help players I know are brand new if they request those kind of trades. To me, they're a drop in the bucket. But for some reason, players in beta don't seem too accommodating.

So you see the challenges a new player faces. It's in the new stage that I'd imagine you'd want to build your player base. If they are all abandoning their cities due to this kind of frustration, then those of us who are experienced players are not happy being surrounded by abandoned cities with perma-building Main Halls.
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
Let me preface this post to say: I have been playing this game for more than a year now, enjoy it a lot, and have 2 high rank cities and am Archmage of my own FS in the usual game worlds. So I am a very experienced player.

I came to beta this week, for the first time (finally), to take a gander at the summer event, and to inform my FS what was taking place and what they could expect when it comes to the other worlds. I would like to let you know how the game will strike a new player in the first chapter, which I know isn't a huge percentage, but if you don't take care to satisfy and retain new players, it's lost business. And I know it's a big and almost impossible balancing act to satisfy both new and long-term players.

It's not too challenging to start a city under usual conditions, but when you add the event to the mix of quests, it will feel daunting and overwhelming to a new player. Let me explain.

It was hard enough to get the relics and complete encounters as a new player, without the added expectation of the event. But I hit a wall, being in chapter 1, when it asks for 2 scrolls of provision. I don't even have the ability to build the Magic Academy yet.

One quest asks me to complete Squad size upgrade 2, but to build the academy requires a different route - City expansion 2, which will eventually take me to the Magic Academy, which also requires Advanced Residences. Combined total to get to Magic Academy for those 3 techs alone is 71 KP. Once the academy is built, it takes an additional 24 hours for 2 provision scrolls, IF I even have the relics to make them. So just to get those 2 scrolls is a heavy time investment. I realize there is 4 weeks to complete the quest. But this is the overwhelm and, is it worth it? that a new player might experience.

Now, it's possible that if I did neighbor visits, I could get some provision spells in chests doing visits. However, I'm on the edge of the world and don't have full neighbors. The neighbors I do have are very few in number and all 3 chests have not appeared when doing my neighbor rounds. Because my score is only 700, Fellowships are not likely to include me as a member to do full rounds. The large trades I see are from long-time high ranked members that ignore my little trades for 25 or 50 goods. I cannot fight provinces anymore because I'm too weak. I cannot negotiate provinces because I don't have enough goods (see the goods quests dilemma in the next paragraph). So I can't earn KP nor enough chests to randomly obtain a provision spell.

Some of the quests require 50 goods of my own boosted factory to accomplish. When I barely produce that much in 3 hours, then have to trade to get the other 2 non-boosted goods to complete the 2 succeeding quests, it's very discouraging because I'm left with no goods whatsoever to build my city. If I post 4:1 trades, everyone completely ignores them. As a high ranked player in other worlds, I always help players I know are brand new if they request those kind of trades. To me, they're a drop in the bucket. But for some reason, players in beta don't seem too accommodating.

So you see the challenges a new player faces. It's in the new stage that I'd imagine you'd want to build your player base. If they are all abandoning their cities due to this kind of frustration, then those of us who are experienced players are not happy being surrounded by abandoned cities with perma-building Main Halls.

i know this doesnt relieve your pain, but thats a problem you see in all online games. usually when there is a world chat you will often see the advice that you should skip events till you got the basics covered. In case of this game id think thats bout chapter 3 or when you get tier 3 factories.

A very starting player also doesnt have a barracks yet or not enough workshops. Thats all normal.
 

DeletedUser2074

Guest
thats a problem you see in all online games

That's not been my experience with most online games. Quests are usually tailored to the level one is in. If it's the case, the quest should either be disabled for a chapter 1-3 player, or a message before it starts about people skipping it if they aren't high enough level (which would also be discouraging to a new player). I believe that Inno should be aware of how it's impacting new players, which is what I've found beta servers to be for. Feeling excluded is one of the main reasons players quit games.
 

Lissona

Well-Known Member
Feeling excluded is one of the main reasons players quit games.
That is your point of view ;)

I've started a lot of online games just before some event, in which I could not really take part (or could not get any of the prizes) because my account was not strong enough. But instead of leaving the game it was an incentive for me to get my city up and running strong for the next event.
 

DeletedUser2074

Guest
That is your point of view

No, it's a statistical fact. Either way, does Inno only want people who are motivated to build cities to take part in events, or do they want to retain the majority of people longer?
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
@Elderflower @Ritsel
I just had a look at how fast troops are made in a max level barracks(chapter 10) compared to my level 15, and yeah the vallorian guard building is underwhelming...
A level 25 barracks can make around 2,000 VG per day, so about the same as 12 VG buildings. Meaning for you to double your military output with them would require more than 4 expansions dedicated to them:confused:

In case you are wondering why my barracks is so low, I like to keep my productions at ~12h, and I'm not willing to sacrifice guest race space for more armories+support buildings.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I see not much harm in the production parts, you produce and use a lot more supplies than most people think.
The pay supplies quests are way much harsher, you will loose a full max supply of your main hall in this event.

Yeah those are brutal too, but what gets me about the produce+gain is
with 10 workshops
40 bread = 4 hours, right? Wrong! at least 24h even with decent culture and spells unless you are a robot doing 5m beverages for 6 hours straight
20 adv tools = 6h, right? Wrong! at least 24h even with decent culture and spells unless you are a robot doing 5m beverages for 6 hours straight
10 groceries = 9h, right? Wrong! at least 24h even with decent culture and spells unless you are a robot doing 5m beverages for 6 hours straight

If #66-68 and 96-98 are on the same scale, that's 300+ hours of short production times with spells for those 9 quests. taking up HALF the time you have for the entire event.
 

DeletedUser1901

Guest
doing 5m beverages for 6 hours straight

That's 72 five-minute productions! I find that after about the 3rd five-minute workshop production my mind abandons this plane of existence and I drift into a state of euphoric ignorance only to snap out of it after losing at least an hour of workshop production.
I'm only now unlocking Granite Mines on Beta, so i won't be able to upgrade Workshops to Dwarven level 'til i can grind enough Granite out of the Elvenarian dirt. So i feel like i'm way behind where I should be in the Event. It, at the very least, seems like these "Produce X Y Times; Gain Supplies" quests should not be back to back.
*edit- nevermind, thought i needed granite for the workshop tech. Still need a lot of time to get to Dwarven Level and upgrades are practically out of the question if i want to gain enough supplies.
 

Sir Squirrel

Well-Known Member
Don't forget to add the ensorcelled endowment spell to your helped cultural buildings first (as well as POP spells to your workshops) to boost your cultural bonus and get the most out of your over night productions "before "you collect them!
 
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Dony

King of Bugs
from my point of view this is 1 of the better event we had
we dont have mandatory scout quests as only alternative
we dont have mandatory solve encounter quests as only alternative
we dont have buy KP quests
we dont have 1 day supply production
we dont have 2 days tier1 production

all i can see they listened and removed the worst quests
we now have to do more supplies but we all need supplies regardless of events being active or not

the vallorian guard building is underwhelming...
for me as a fighter is the best building in this event, since i play elf and i dont have paladins
this single building will give me thousands and thousands of units over the years without taking queue in my production and when compared to buff building its much superior in a year+ time frame
 

DeletedUser

Guest
from my point of view this is 1 of the better event we had
we dont have mandatory scout quests as only alternative
we dont have mandatory solve encounter quests as only alternative
we dont have buy KP quests
we dont have 1 day supply production
we dont have 2 days tier1 production

all i can see they listened and removed the worst quests
we now have to do more supplies but we all need supplies regardless of events being active or not

I do agree with you @Dony on all the worst quests being removed :) and I sort of understand why the supplies quests and goods quests are harder to complete, otherwise we would rush through the quests in a couple of days. :D

But it would be nice if the devs would adjust there calculations a bit concerning the amount of supplies and goods. I now have to choose between continuing in the event or continuing in the Dwarf chapter, because I can't do both anymore. And that puts a damper on the fun :(
 

DeletedUser2003

Guest
for me as a fighter is the best building in this event [vallorian guard building], since i play elf and i dont have paladins
I feel the same, and being in chapter 4 it will be at least a year before I will be able to train them for myself. I fight the tourneys in all 4 of my cities/worlds saving me a lot of goods, which at my level here in Beta is the only way to get through the tourneys. In round 3, for example, catering costs for tier-1 can be 4 figures for just 1 encounter (e.g. 1300 steel), and on a good day I MIGHT have 5K of my non-boosted goods. So, yaaa...I will be going for a building that gives me strong fighters for only the space it takes to set the building in my city :cool:
 
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DeletedUser1953

Guest
I am at the beginning of Era III, and the quest asks "500 elixir", how can i do that ? Even if i find someone to exchange with T2, it will take a lot of time, and after then i think it will ask other T3 ? It will take more than 2 weeks to finish this 3 quests !
 

DeletedUser1912

Guest
Yeah those are brutal too, but what gets me about the produce+gain is
with 10 workshops
40 bread = 4 hours, right? Wrong! at least 24h even with decent culture and spells unless you are a robot doing 5m beverages for 6 hours straight
20 adv tools = 6h, right? Wrong! at least 24h even with decent culture and spells unless you are a robot doing 5m beverages for 6 hours straight
10 groceries = 9h, right? Wrong! at least 24h even with decent culture and spells unless you are a robot doing 5m beverages for 6 hours straight

If #66-68 and 96-98 are on the same scale, that's 300+ hours of short production times with spells for those 9 quests. taking up HALF the time you have for the entire event.
If the Devs don't readjust the gain reqs I'm not even going to bother playing the event in my 4 live worlds.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
@Elderflower @Ritsel @Dony

I take it back. Looking at the VG again, it's actually a pretty great building even for someone with level 25 barracks.
How much does a level 25 barracks need to support it? 4 armories and 6 residences? That's 220 squares and negative 30K culture.
So if you can double your output with a dozen VG that take up 100 squares, it's actually pretty damn great.
 
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