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City Magic academy improvements

Discussion in 'Ideas and Suggestions' started by Lovec Krys, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Lovec Krys

    Lovec Krys Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    This suggestion is actualy group of suggestions which tries to address two current issues with Magic academy.

    1) Spell creation speed issue
    With crafting introduction, players not using Magic academy has got someting they can use it for.
    Unfortunately, since (almost) every crafting recipe requires catalyst(s), which was added to the spell tab, players previously using Magic academy 100% of the time now have to decide if they are going to create catalysts or other spells (especialy painfull for those creating Magic manufacturing spell, since it's the rarer in other sources than other two common spells).
    This part suggests some ways of dealing with this problem.

    a) Simple increase of Magic academy's current levels speed
    This suggestion only changes spell time creation (easy to implement)

    Current values:
    Level...speed/relic
    1..........8h
    2..........6,5h
    3..........5h
    4..........3,5h
    5..........2h

    Suggested values:
    Level...speed/relic
    1..........6h
    2..........5h
    3..........3,5h
    4..........2h
    5..........1h

    b) Adding more Magic academy's levels
    This suggestion adds new Magic academy levels and changes costs for current levels (players get more levels with ability to create more spells/catalysts for a reasonable price, players with lv 2 gets free upgrade to lv 3, Inno gets additional revenue from new levels)

    Current levels & values:
    Level..dia......speed/relic...Disenchant bonus
    1.........-.........8h.................0
    2.........-.........6,5h..............25%
    3.........250.....5h................50%
    4.........500.....3,5h.............75%
    5.........750.....2h...............100%
    Total:1500 dia

    Suggested levels &values:
    Level...dia.....speed/relic...Disenchant bonus (with original 25% increase)
    1.........-.........8h................0 (0)
    2.........-.........6,5h.............20% (25%)
    3.........-.........5h................40% (50%)
    4.........200....3,5h.............60% (75%)
    5.........400....2h................80% (100%)
    6.........600....1,5h.............100% (125%)
    7.........800....1h................120% (150%)
    Total:2000 dia (for new player, 1400 dia per current player with Magic academy lv 5)

    c) Adding more Magic academy's levels II (sub variant of (b) with decreased speed and costs for 6&7 lv)

    Suggested levels &values:
    Level...dia.....speed/relic...Disenchant bonus (with original 25% increase)
    1.........-.........8h................0 (0)
    2.........-.........6,5h.............20% (25%)
    3.........-.........5h................40% (50%)
    4.........200....3,5h.............60% (75%)
    5.........400....2h................80% (100%)
    6.........500....1h40m.........100% (125%)
    7.........600....1h20m.........120% (150%)
    Total:1700 dia (for new player, 1100 dia per current player with Magic academy lv 5)

    2) Crafting recipe issue
    With more and more recipes added, it's increasingly difficult to craft what you want. This part suggests some ways of correcting it.

    a) Decrease rotation time
    This suggestion increases chance to get some useful recipe by simply decreasing rotation time (easy to implement)
    Current value: 8hrs
    Suggested value: 6hrs (maybe even 5 or 4 hrs)

    b) Give players free recipe reset every day
    This suggestion gives additional 1 rotation per day for players - especially usefull for players visiting city once or twice per day.
    Currently:
    Each 75 diamonds

    Suggested:
    1st: free
    Each after: 75 diamonds

    c) Remove garbage recipes
    This suggestion increases chance to get some useful recipe by lowering recipe count.

    Suggestion: Since there are recipes used rarely or not at all (usualy for their high cost vs usefullness), I suggest to remove them. I suppose Inno has some statistics available about this. I could post list of those I consider garbage, but that would be valid only for me, other players have different crafting preferences.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
    Golden Awaken and Loki Blue like this.
  2. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Nice. The only issue I see is that there is the choice to ignore crafting and simply double the MA output with most of those ideas. Crafting is cool, but not really as powerful for many players as cooking other spells 24/7.
    e.g. if I was making MM 24/7 before, now I could also make 42 PoP and 42 EE per week on top. That works out to a 260% boost to supplies and a 60% culture boost on top. At a glance that seems better than anything catalysts would give.
     
  3. Loki Blue

    Loki Blue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    I love crafting, I actually do a lot of it.

    +1
     
  4. Karvest

    Karvest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    RRs, temp military buildings, pet food (if you would be lucky enough/donate on upcoming event) are more profitable than appropriate amount of PoP or EE.
     
  5. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    RR--> only if you are in a 10 chest FS, even then it's 3 or 5 CC per week.
    Temp military buildings-->only if you are a fighter, and statistically you only get to buy 1 of each per week which is 12 CC (36 relics) so instead of the 168 relics of PoP and EE I listed above, there's still 132 worth gained by increasing the MA output by 100%

    I dunno what pet food is so I can't speak to that.
     
  6. Karvest

    Karvest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    well, x2 is probably overkill, it would be a hard to maintain relics for that anyway.
     
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  7. Lovec Krys

    Lovec Krys Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    @SoggyShorts Well, would that realy be an issue?
    I can use PP spell on my 5 workshops every day even without ever crafting them (I currently have 554 of them in inventory and I gain more of them from tournaments than I use).
    I suppose that EE spell will be similar, but I've never realy used them much in my city - only when I needed mana with Dragon Abbey effect (but since my sets produces together 230k mana each day, I don't need to do it anyway).

    Doubling MM spell creation might make an effect, but there are other limitations than just Magic academy speed:
    First and probably the greatest is the relic surplus limitation - the only source of relics is the tournament and that means to play very heavily the two tournaments which provides those relics (personal experience). I didn't make exact calculations, but the limit for the current MA speed is somewhere between 4 and 5k points, so with double speed that would mean the need to get between 8 and 10k points.
    I suppose this strategy wouldn't help advanced players enough due to many mandatory squad size upgrades effect, to get enough points they would still have to craft catalysts for military buildings.
    Maybe it could make enough effect on some special low chapter cities (but those at least don't have the Elvenar trade center's effect). If those cities are the issue, I can add to point 1b a subpoint that higher levels of Magic Academy might need a new research if developers decide to prevent those low chapter cities to do this(for example in chapter V for lv 6 and chapter X for lv 7).
    Or do you have some other case in your mind?
     
  8. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    TBH I never pay attention to my relics and have been cooking CC since crafting came out so I have not run any numbers on what is realistic for a normal player to cook relic-wise- I was just raising a possible concern.
    EDIT: I have miscalced how many tournament points needed to cook 17 CC and 29 MM per week and I'm too lazy to fix it so I'm hiding it.
    Let's see how many MM are possible:

    Before crafting
    84 relics @2h each
    =21 MM spells cooked per week
    score required in 3 tournaments: 3240 (12 provinces 6 stars)

    With a current Level 5 MA a player can cook
    15 relics = 5 CC for RR
    36 relics = 12 CC for MMM/UUU/ELR
    33 relics = 8 MM

    With a 100% buff to the MA that goes up to 29 MM. score required in 3 tournaments: 4320 (16 provinces 6 stars)

    A change of +8 MM spells per week and buying the best(current) recipes is a significant buff and reasonably achievable.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  9. Karvest

    Karvest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    MM takes 2+2 relics...
     
  10. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Damnit.:mad:
    Fixed.:p
     
  11. Karvest

    Karvest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    wrong
    if you are producing only MM - you need 378 relics per appropriate tournament, which requires much more than 12*6 = 3240 points.
    More like 17*6+1*2 = 4656 points (quite stupid setup, better use some more profitable things than 6* after 9 province) Doubling that amount would be not so easy, like 31*6+1*2 = 8436 points (same stupid setup)
    Oh, forgot 20 relics from 10 chests, but you need that relics outside MA too, so let say it would cover AW upgrade costs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  12. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    not fixed then lol
     
  13. Lovec Krys

    Lovec Krys Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Ok, I did some math myself (with help of tournament calculator):
    With MA lv 5, you can produce 3 MM spells / day, 21 MM spells /Week. For a tournament period (9 weeks) it's 189 MM spells.
    Each MM spells costs 2+2 relics, so to keep MM spell production 24/7, you need 2x378 relics in the current setup.
    With 10 chest bonus, that's 16*6 rounds + 17th round on 4* - 4476 points.

    With doubling MA speed, to produce MM spell only, that's 2x567 relics.
    So in two tournaments you would need to clear at least 30 provinces for all 6 rounds + 4 on 31 (20 relics from 10 chests included). In this setup it's 8256 points.

    If you dedicate your lv 7 MA to produce 50%MM & 50%Catalyst, then for MM spell, you need 2 x 189 relics + 1x 378 relics + 567 relics (1 relic is shared by both spells)
    One of the possible setups to get 567 relics is 19 provinces with 6 stars + up to 30 province 3 stars, in points = 6318 (counted also 20 relics for 10 chest).

    Different setups can give different results, but the needed points will be similar.
    So for current speed to maintain 24/7 MM: You need over 4k points (hard, but doable)
    For double speed to maintain 24/7: You need over 8k points (very hard, not sure if doable without crafting catalysts for military buildings).
    For 50% MM + 50% Catalysts: You need over 6k points (very hard, but doable with help of military buildings, maybe even with catering if you save goods from other tournaments).
    So overall the relics will be the main limitation.

    I can add a new variant with nerfed speed (1h 40 min for lv6 and 1h20min for lv7, with 66% speed increase ), if you still think 100% is too big increase. But the final numbers will be decided by developers anyway (if this gets to them).
     
  14. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Maybe...Your numbers make it sound like only the top 1% of tournament players could actually use a level 7 MA.
    For other players it would really just have some niche uses like cooking spells for the FA.
     
  15. Lovec Krys

    Lovec Krys Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Ok, added subvariant 1c with decreased speed and cost. And corrected those damn tables (I used spaces, but they were trimmed, unfornutately there's no way of making proper tables here (or I don't know how to make them)).

    Anyway, @SoggyShorts don't forget that, lv 6&7 also increases the fragment you get from disenchanting and players not being able to maintain 1 spell, can still create other spells as well (if needed for them).
     
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  16. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Bring it on, I'd upgrade my magic academy to level 7...

    But it would be nice to instead of 2 and 2 of the same relic for the MM make it 1x4 of 4 different relics.
     
  17. Lovec Krys

    Lovec Krys Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Ok, has anyone any additional note, or can I ask some mod to start a poll?
     

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