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City Magic academy improvements

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
This suggestion is actualy group of suggestions which tries to address two current issues with Magic academy.
I'm aware that if this gets to the developers, it will be their decision if and how this gets implemented (which parts yes and which not).

1) Spell creation speed issue
With crafting introduction, players not using Magic academy has got someting they can use it for.
Unfortunately, since (almost) every crafting recipe requires catalyst(s), which was added to the spell tab, players previously using Magic academy 100% of the time now have to decide if they are going to create catalysts or other spells (especialy painfull for those creating Magic manufacturing spell, since it's the rarer in other sources than other two common spells).
This part suggests some ways of dealing with this problem.

a) Simple increase of Magic academy's current levels speed
This suggestion only changes spell time creation (easy to implement)

Current values:
Level...speed/relic
1..........8h
2..........6,5h
3..........5h
4..........3,5h
5..........2h

Suggested values:
Level...speed/relic
1..........6h
2..........5h
3..........3,5h
4..........2h
5..........1h

b) Adding more Magic academy's levels
This suggestion adds new Magic academy levels and changes costs for current levels (players get more levels with ability to create more spells/catalysts for a reasonable price, players with lv 2 gets free upgrade to lv 3, Inno gets additional revenue from new levels)

Current levels & values:
Level..dia......speed/relic...Disenchant bonus
1.........-.........8h.................0
2.........-.........6,5h..............25%
3.........250.....5h................50%
4.........500.....3,5h.............75%
5.........750.....2h...............100%
Total:1500 dia

Suggested levels &values:
Level...dia.....speed/relic...Disenchant bonus (with original 25% increase)
1.........-.........8h................0 (0)
2.........-.........6,5h.............20% (25%)
3.........-.........5h................40% (50%)
4.........200....3,5h.............60% (75%)
5.........400....2h................80% (100%)
6.........600....1,5h.............100% (125%)
7.........800....1h................120% (150%)
Total:2000 dia (for new player, 1400 dia per current player with Magic academy lv 5)

c) Adding more Magic academy's levels II (sub variant of (b) with decreased speed and costs for 6&7 lv)

Suggested levels &values:
Level...dia.....speed/relic...Disenchant bonus (with original 25% increase)
1.........-.........8h................0 (0)
2.........-.........6,5h.............20% (25%)
3.........-.........5h................40% (50%)
4.........200....3,5h.............60% (75%)
5.........400....2h................80% (100%)
6.........500....1h40m.........100% (125%)
7.........600....1h20m.........120% (150%)
Total:1700 dia (for new player, 1100 dia per current player with Magic academy lv 5)

d) Lowering the cost of spells (also lowers time needed to create, another free variant to the more levels variants (b and c))

For example: Magical manufacturing
From 2x(T2+1) & 2x(T3+2)
to 2x(T2+1) & 1x(T3+2) (75% time needed to create)
or 1x(T2+1) & 1x(T3+2) (50% time needed to create)

Catalyst:
Remove one of the three relics needed (best the one shared with magical manufacturing) (66% time needed to create after the change)

Other spells can be affected similar ways.

2) Crafting recipe issue
With more and more recipes added, it's increasingly difficult to craft what you want. This part suggests some ways of correcting it.

a) Decrease rotation time
This suggestion increases chance to get some useful recipe by simply decreasing rotation time (easy to implement)
Current value: 8hrs
Suggested value: 6hrs (maybe even 5 or 4 hrs)

b) Give players free recipe reset every day
This suggestion gives additional 1 rotation per day for players - especially usefull for players visiting city once or twice per day.
Currently:
Each 75 diamonds

Suggested:
1st: free
Each after: 75 diamonds

c) Remove garbage recipes
This suggestion increases chance to get some useful recipe by lowering recipe count.

Suggestion: Since there are recipes used rarely or not at all (usualy for their high cost vs usefullness), I suggest to remove them. I suppose Inno has some statistics available about this. I could post list of those I consider garbage, but that would be valid only for me, other players have different crafting preferences.

d) Add 6th recipe slot
Increase wanted recipe chance by increasing count of visible recipes (from current 5 to 6 (or even more)).

3) Missing crafting recipe issue
Sometimes there are more than one wanted recipe to craft and not enough time to do so, mainly due to real life issues (sleep, work, etc..). So some recipes are not crafted due to this.
Possible solutins:

a) Disable checkbox (or button) for each slot (manualy disable recipe rotation for each slot)
By checking the checkbox (or button) player would disable recipe rotation for that slot and would be able to craft it later (even after several rotations), after unchecking or crafting the item, slot would go to the original state (standard recipe rotation).
I think that some deadline could be used (let's say a week), after the deadline, slot would go back to the standard recipe rotation even without player unchecking the checkbox or crafting the item.

b) Implement recipe queue (more than one slot for crafting itself, alternative to 3a)
Functionality could be this:
There would be more than one slot for crafting recipes (I suggest 3 should be enough in most cases, but more slots are not problem for players)
If slots are full, no more crafting possible. Recipes are being crafted from left to right, when one is finished, crafting of other starts immediately (similar like in military buildings), crafted item collection could be the same as it is now (only from more slots than one)

After choosing the wanted recipe by player, the crafted item would go to the queue in the upper part of dialog (currently there is only one slot).
Recipe would also dissapeared from the bottom line (empty space would appear there).

If item creation is canceled, recipe reappears in the bottom line again (in a first free position or the original position) under the condition that there are free positions (if recipe rotation has happened meanwhile, there might be 0 free positions, in that case canceled item recipe would only dissapear from the queue)

Due to the currently crafted recipes moving to the queue, when time comes all recipes would rotate (because the currently crafted recipes has dissapeared from the recipe line). That again increase chance for wanted recipes to appear.
 
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SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
This idea has been altered (and improved) greatly so my earlier feedback is no longer relevant.
 
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Karvest

Well-Known Member
RRs, temp military buildings, pet food (if you would be lucky enough/donate on upcoming event) are more profitable than appropriate amount of PoP or EE.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
more profitable
RR--> only if you are in a 10 chest FS, even then it's 3 or 5 CC per week.
Temp military buildings-->only if you are a fighter, and statistically you only get to buy 1 of each per week which is 12 CC (36 relics) so instead of the 168 relics of PoP and EE I listed above, there's still 132 worth gained by increasing the MA output by 100%

I dunno what pet food is so I can't speak to that.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@SoggyShorts Well, would that realy be an issue?
I can use PP spell on my 5 workshops every day even without ever crafting them (I currently have 554 of them in inventory and I gain more of them from tournaments than I use).
I suppose that EE spell will be similar, but I've never realy used them much in my city - only when I needed mana with Dragon Abbey effect (but since my sets produces together 230k mana each day, I don't need to do it anyway).

Doubling MM spell creation might make an effect, but there are other limitations than just Magic academy speed:
First and probably the greatest is the relic surplus limitation - the only source of relics is the tournament and that means to play very heavily the two tournaments which provides those relics (personal experience). I didn't make exact calculations, but the limit for the current MA speed is somewhere between 4 and 5k points, so with double speed that would mean the need to get between 8 and 10k points.
I suppose this strategy wouldn't help advanced players enough due to many mandatory squad size upgrades effect, to get enough points they would still have to craft catalysts for military buildings.
Maybe it could make enough effect on some special low chapter cities (but those at least don't have the Elvenar trade center's effect). If those cities are the issue, I can add to point 1b a subpoint that higher levels of Magic Academy might need a new research if developers decide to prevent those low chapter cities to do this(for example in chapter V for lv 6 and chapter X for lv 7).
Or do you have some other case in your mind?
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
TBH I never pay attention to my relics and have been cooking CC since crafting came out so I have not run any numbers on what is realistic for a normal player to cook relic-wise- I was just raising a possible concern.
EDIT: I have miscalced how many tournament points needed to cook 17 CC and 29 MM per week and I'm too lazy to fix it so I'm hiding it.
Let's see how many MM are possible:

Before crafting
84 relics @2h each
=21 MM spells cooked per week
score required in 3 tournaments: 3240 (12 provinces 6 stars)

With a current Level 5 MA a player can cook
15 relics = 5 CC for RR
36 relics = 12 CC for MMM/UUU/ELR
33 relics = 8 MM

With a 100% buff to the MA that goes up to 29 MM. score required in 3 tournaments: 4320 (16 provinces 6 stars)

A change of +8 MM spells per week and buying the best(current) recipes is a significant buff and reasonably achievable.
 
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Karvest

Well-Known Member
wrong
if you are producing only MM - you need 378 relics per appropriate tournament, which requires much more than 12*6 = 3240 points.
More like 17*6+1*2 = 4656 points (quite stupid setup, better use some more profitable things than 6* after 9 province) Doubling that amount would be not so easy, like 31*6+1*2 = 8436 points (same stupid setup)
Oh, forgot 20 relics from 10 chests, but you need that relics outside MA too, so let say it would cover AW upgrade costs.
 
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Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
Ok, I did some math myself (with help of tournament calculator):
With MA lv 5, you can produce 3 MM spells / day, 21 MM spells /Week. For a tournament period (9 weeks) it's 189 MM spells.
Each MM spells costs 2+2 relics, so to keep MM spell production 24/7, you need 2x378 relics in the current setup.
With 10 chest bonus, that's 16*6 rounds + 17th round on 4* - 4476 points.

With doubling MA speed, to produce MM spell only, that's 2x567 relics.
So in two tournaments you would need to clear at least 30 provinces for all 6 rounds + 4 on 31 (20 relics from 10 chests included). In this setup it's 8256 points.

If you dedicate your lv 7 MA to produce 50%MM & 50%Catalyst, then for MM spell, you need 2 x 189 relics + 1x 378 relics + 567 relics (1 relic is shared by both spells)
One of the possible setups to get 567 relics is 19 provinces with 6 stars + up to 30 province 3 stars, in points = 6318 (counted also 20 relics for 10 chest).

Different setups can give different results, but the needed points will be similar.
So for current speed to maintain 24/7 MM: You need over 4k points (hard, but doable)
For double speed to maintain 24/7: You need over 8k points (very hard, not sure if doable without crafting catalysts for military buildings).
For 50% MM + 50% Catalysts: You need over 6k points (very hard, but doable with help of military buildings, maybe even with catering if you save goods from other tournaments).
So overall the relics will be the main limitation.

I can add a new variant with nerfed speed (1h 40 min for lv6 and 1h20min for lv7, with 66% speed increase ), if you still think 100% is too big increase. But the final numbers will be decided by developers anyway (if this gets to them).
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I can add a new variant with nerfed speed (1h 40 min for lv6 and 1h20min for lv7, with 66% speed increase ), if you still think 100% is too big increase.
Maybe...Your numbers make it sound like only the top 1% of tournament players could actually use a level 7 MA.
For other players it would really just have some niche uses like cooking spells for the FA.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
Ok, added subvariant 1c with decreased speed and cost. And corrected those damn tables (I used spaces, but they were trimmed, unfornutately there's no way of making proper tables here (or I don't know how to make them)).

Anyway, @SoggyShorts don't forget that, lv 6&7 also increases the fragment you get from disenchanting and players not being able to maintain 1 spell, can still create other spells as well (if needed for them).
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Bring it on, I'd upgrade my magic academy to level 7...

But it would be nice to instead of 2 and 2 of the same relic for the MM make it 1x4 of 4 different relics.
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
I like the ideas and agree some minor tweaks are needed. One possible solution though is not changing the MA as it is but tweaking the spell recipe, could solve the useless boosted relics while doing it too. ;)

Too lazy to run the math but would dropping a relic out of certain spells make much of a difference?
 
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Karvest

Well-Known Member
I'll even skip RR recipe today due to catalysts missing... Can't produce enough of them, making only them 24/7 in lvl5 MA, not talking about time for other spells...
 

soleil

Guest
I agree with @Mykan about not changing the magic academy. @Mykan do you mean dropping relics from the boosted relics? It's weird i have to spend 3 relics to gain 2. Which I swear changed on me. I thought it was 2 relics to make the cc spells.

I disagree with removing spells. If anything, there should be 100's of spells and the ability to skip and wait for a certain amount of time (1 to 3 hours) for a new one. (or diamonds if you want to actually spend diamonds on this) The more spells, the less the skip time is.

And if you don't want to skip keep the 8 hours because I've found at the last minute I might craft something.
 
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