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World Map [Forwarded] Culture's Neighborly help timer to be increased

Lauwi

Ex-Team Member
I haven't seen anyone else forward ideas, it may be just Lauwi. Also, there have been less posts by her these last few days so might be she's busy?
Spot on! :p @ddevil, I can reassure you that I've seen the idea. Tagging isn't necessary, as I'm looking at the amount of support an idea gets before it would be forwarded.
 

ddevil

Guest
Spot on! :p @ddevil, I can reassure you that I've seen the idea. Tagging isn't necessary, as I'm looking at the amount of support an idea gets before it would be forwarded.
Thanks for replying @Lauwi ... I thought it had already got enough likes and approval to be forwarded ...I mean I think most of the regular forum users have already approved or liked this idea ....anyways if you think it needs more, it needs more ..I will start promoting aggressively this suggestion starting immediately :p
 

ddevil

Guest
Hoping this suggestion gets more approvals / likes and it can be forwarded soon to the dev's for implemetation;) ...trying to bring to the attention of those who have't voted for it yet ...:p
 

Odvar

Guest
I haven't voted yet!
Well...
alright I have. But I'll gladly vote a second time if I can.:D
 

Lauwi

Ex-Team Member
I've got a question for all readers of this idea: would you rather have the timer at 8 hours with a 100% bonus (as is the current situation), or would you rather have the timer at 12 hours (as is suggested in this idea) with a lower bonus percentage?
 

Odvar

Guest
I've got a question for all readers of this idea: would you rather have the timer at 8 hours with a 100% bonus (as is the current situation), or would you rather have the timer at 12 hours (as is suggested in this idea) with a lower bonus percentage?
Personally I consider these to be two issues.

The primary concern for me is the time interval. Some players only login once per day. For them neighborly help (NH) in culture comes at a huge discount because of the 8 hour duration. The culture bonus is always calculated when you collect. Because of this two out three times the NH will be totally useless to them as they will expire when they are off line. And for those who are very active you can still count on losing about one out of three NHs.

A twelve hour timer will insure that the most active players will not lose any NHs and even those who only login once a day will only lose one out of two.

I am less concerned about the percentage level (i.e. 170%, 200%, etc.). This is more of a balance thing to me. The devs need to decide what level to set the percentage at based on how quickly they want players to progress.
 

Wolphy

Well-Known Member
+1 for 12 hours

I've got a question for all readers of this idea: would you rather have the timer at 8 hours with a 100% bonus (as is the current situation), or would you rather have the timer at 12 hours (as is suggested in this idea) with a lower bonus percentage?
I believe you should ask this question after the problem with inactive neighbourhoods is solved. With 3 to 5 visits in 24h and increased culture requirements I would prefer 12 hours with 100% bonus. :D
And how much lower would the bonus be?
 

myselfandi

Well-Known Member
Since i have only 2 neighbours that help me (almost) every day, I prefer a 12 hour bonus at 100% to. Now they come visiting me at night, and it's gone by the time I collect.
 

ddevil

Guest
I've got a question for all readers of this idea: would you rather have the timer at 8 hours with a 100% bonus (as is the current situation), or would you rather have the timer at 12 hours (as is suggested in this idea) with a lower bonus percentage?
I've got a question for the dev's of this game : :p

why are they trying to make it more and more difficult to achieve the culture bonus in this game ? Where is the fun in that ??? Why should this question even arise ? As such the players feel the Culture requirement is too high in this game .... most of them feel the Culture buildings are super too low, wrongly placed on the research tree, not balanced with the requirements of the game etc etc ...this forum is filled with such posts from different beta testers ....On top of all that, the dev's want to keep reducing the options of achieving it even further ?? 8hrs with 100% and if 12 hrs is requested they want to lower the bonus percentage on that too??? 8hrs is completely is useless for many players of this game ... its as good as not having it at all ....so even if it gives out 1000% whats the point having that ?? ....Why don't they just remove all of that bonus feature completely and / or keep that option only for the premium players ...Let the normal players just play with 100% only:mad: ...Anyways Some of them who have reached the advanced stage of the game are already playing without making any use of the bonus at all ....Maybe then the normal players will not feel the need to complain or suggest anything at all ...we don't need to be dependent on the neighbors and not many will complain about the inactive neighborhood ... let all the players just play this game on their own .... is that what they want ???...

I think i have clearly mentioned why I am suggesting this 12hrs instead of the current 8hrs and yes of course answer to your question @Lauwi is I prefer to have all of the 100% bonus with 12 hrs .... if not please do not implement this suggestion at all ... its better to struggle with whatever we got in the game already than screwing it up completely in the name of an improvement (example : what they just did with Bonus recalculation update)....
 
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superalexandre9

Guest
Rather 12 hours with a lower percentage .
But how much would be the percentage ?
 

Lauwi

Ex-Team Member
I've got a question for all readers of this idea: would you rather have the timer at 8 hours with a 100% bonus (as is the current situation), or would you rather have the timer at 12 hours (as is suggested in this idea) with a lower bonus percentage?
I think I have to give this question more context. I understand where the idea of extending the timer to 12 hours came from: because of the time differences, some players currently aid you when you're asleep. Extending the timer seems like a perfect solution to the problem. Of course we'd all like to see a 12 hours timer with the same bonus percentage: this is profitable for all players. However, the game would change quite a lot when the timer is increased (1,5 times!) without a decrease of the bonus percentage. The developers might think that increasing the timer would unbalance the game, and therefore they might decrease the bonus percentage. I'm not saying that they would do that, I'm only mentioning the possibility.

That brings me back to my question. Before I forward the idea, I need to know if the idea would still be supported if the bonus percentage would be lowered. I understand that the preferred scenario is the 12 hours timer with the current bonus percentage. However, if this wouldn't be an option, which scenario would be preferred:
  • an 8 hours timer with the current bonus percentage (100% bonus), or;
  • a 12 hours timer (1,5 times more compared to the current situation) with a lower bonus percentage (e.g. 67% bonus, 1,5 times less compared to the current situation)?
 

superalexandre9

Guest
I preferred
  • a 12 hours timer (1,5 times more compared to the current situation) with a lower bonus percentage (e.g. 67% bonus, 1,5 times less compared to the current situation)?
 

Acamax

Well-Known Member
a 12 hours timer (1,5 times more compared to the current situation) with a lower bonus percentage (e.g. 67% bonus, 1,5 times less compared to the current situation)?
I rather have the option with the 12 hour timer as well even when the percentage is lowered :D
 

Philplessis

Well-Known Member
having the help for 12 hours would certainly be an improvement, and I support this !

now, Lauwi, I think I fail to understand your thread of thought :
you wrote :
The developers might think that increasing the timer would unbalance the game, and therefore they might decrease the bonus percentage
do you mean that for the developers it must be that hard to reach higher levels of culture ?
at the moment I can seldom reach 150%, and only for a limited amount of time, and only with help from my neighbors.
before the update, when I had lower population needs and could cope with the culture buildings I had, I never went above 170%;
why was there even a 200%, if I could not reach it ?
same question for the current 170% max, which is way out of reach...
if developers intent is for all of us to play at level 100%, why do they not just admit it ?o_O
 
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DeletedUser651

Guest
Lowering the bonus would also harm many players who are in dead zones, so I don't think that is a solution, just a new problem. If you happen to have one or two neighbors who DO play with you at the right times and they are the only ones who visit you, then dropping the bonus while those few are there would do equal harm. So, no, I don't think that would be of value. In fact, lowering the bonus would only be a detriment to many.

I know ddevil wanted me to move the idea, but I will reiterate it here, that perhaps allowing us to choose an extra 4 hour culture bonus if we go visit all our neighbors would help solve this. It would encourage people to visit their neighbors....it would give you an extra 4 hour time window if you are on a different playing time zone than your neighbor....and it would offset the fact that some players get help by doing absolutely nothing all the time. (The rest of my idea was that if you visit all your neighbors you could choose to either get a 4 hour culture bonus, an extra 5% builder time, or an extra number of coins....your choice each 24 hour period....that way you get rewarded for helping your competitors, it encourages neighbor visits, it helps those in a dead zone, and rewards those later in the game when going around to a gigantic neighborhood is a pain and encourages them to visit all players, not just the ones they know visit them back, and it isn't so large an additional bonus that it would throw the game off kilter.)

Forgive me ddevil, I don't mean to step on your idea, but if the only way this gets forwarded is if it gets tweaked, at least this tweak wouldn't cost us.
 

jimmac

Guest
Hmmm I am tempted to put my development managers head on here. Ok I will.

If you look at it from a developer’s perspective there are a number of things that have to be considered.

1. Where in the world you are playing.
2. Where the other players are in the world.
3. The time zone difference between players.
4. When those players are typically on line.
5. When you are typically online.
6. What level of difficulty do you wish to introduce to make the game interesting.

As this server is the English speaking one then the typical countries that will use it are North America, Europe and Australia / New Zealand.

If you take UTC (GMT) as the base line then to get most of North America there is a Time Difference of UTC -8Hrs (9 if you want to include Alaska) Likewise for Australia / New Zealand then you are looking at UTC +8 -> +10 Hrs (depending on which coast you are on)

When are players on line? Typically it is before they leave for work, Break times at work and when they come home from work. So using the UTC model above, players would need to have polish available;

UTC Players

(UTC) 0700 - 0800 Hrs and after 1800Hrs.

This equates to

(UTC-8) 2300 - 0000 Hrs and after 1200 Hrs.
(UTC +10) 1700 - 1800 Hrs and after 0400 Hrs

To get the windows above polish could be done;

(UTC) 0000 - 0759 and after 1000Hrs
(UTC -8) 1500 - 2359Hrs and after 0400Hrs
(UTC +10) 0900 - 1759Hrs and after 2000Hrs

UTC -8 Players

(UTC - 8) 0700 - 0800 Hrs and after 1800 Hrs

This equates to

(UTC) 1500 - 1600 Hrs and after 0200 Hrs
(UTC + 10) 0100 - 0200 Hrs and after 1200 Hrs

To get the windows above polish could be done;

(UTC -8) 0000 - 0759 and after 1000Hrs
(UTC) 0700 - 1559 Hrs and after 1800Hrs
(UTC +10) 1900 - 0159 Hrs and after 0400Hrs

UTC + 10 Players

(UTC +10) 0700 - 0800 Hrs and after 1800Hrs

This equates to

(UTC) 2100 - 2200 Hrs and after 0800 Hrs
(UTC -8) 1300 - 1400 Hrs and after 0000Hrs

To get the windows above polish could be done;

(UTC +10) 0000 - 0759Hrs and after 1000Hrs
(UTC) 1300 - 2159Hrs and after 0000Hrs
(UTC -8) 0900 - 1359Hrs and after 0400 Hrs

(Note all times are in local to that time zone)

So the problem is not that the neighbour help lasts 8Hrs, but more the number of active neighbours and their location to suit the time when you are online to make the most of this neighbour help.

By having a good mix of active players from different time zones then there is a good chance that you will have the cultural boost when you are online but that will not be guaranteed due to the random chance factors such as they choose not to help your cultural item and choose your main hall or builders.

If you change the time this cover lasts you will actually reduce the amount of cultural help you can get from 3 neighbour helps to 2 neighbour helps per cultural item in a 24 Hour period. If the neighbours that help come on between the 8 and 12 hour period then there is the chance you will loose more cultural help as there will be less culture available with the 12Hr duration so the only other option for them is builders or coin to your main hall.

We must remember that this is a closed beta with a limited number of players. Hopefully by the time the game goes live there will be more active players and with a good mix of time zones to overcome this problem.

So looking long term I would say no to any change to the cultural help time.
 

ddevil

Guest
I think I already gave my answer to your question @Lauwi ...12 hrs with the same percentage otherwise I am not expecting any change at all ... thats my one and final preference ....

Hmmm I am tempted to put my development managers head on here. Ok I will.

If you look at it from a developer’s perspective there are a number of things that have to be considered.

1. Where in the world you are playing.
2. Where the other players are in the world.
3. The time zone difference between players.
4. When those players are typically on line.
5. When you are typically online.
6. What level of difficulty do you wish to introduce to make the game interesting.

As this server is the English speaking one then the typical countries that will use it are North America, Europe and Australia / New Zealand.

If you take UTC (GMT) as the base line then to get most of North America there is a Time Difference of UTC -8Hrs (9 if you want to include Alaska) Likewise for Australia / New Zealand then you are looking at UTC +8 -> +10 Hrs (depending on which coast you are on)

When are players on line? Typically it is before they leave for work, Break times at work and when they come home from work. So using the UTC model above, players would need to have polish available;

UTC Players

(UTC) 0700 - 0800 Hrs and after 1800Hrs.

This equates to

(UTC-8) 2300 - 0000 Hrs and after 1200 Hrs.
(UTC +10) 1700 - 1800 Hrs and after 0400 Hrs

To get the windows above polish could be done;

(UTC) 0000 - 0759 and after 1000Hrs
(UTC -8) 1500 - 2359Hrs and after 0400Hrs
(UTC +10) 0900 - 1759Hrs and after 2000Hrs

UTC -8 Players

(UTC - 8) 0700 - 0800 Hrs and after 1800 Hrs

This equates to

(UTC) 1500 - 1600 Hrs and after 0200 Hrs
(UTC + 10) 0100 - 0200 Hrs and after 1200 Hrs

To get the windows above polish could be done;

(UTC -8) 0000 - 0759 and after 1000Hrs
(UTC) 0700 - 1559 Hrs and after 1800Hrs
(UTC +10) 1900 - 0159 Hrs and after 0400Hrs

UTC + 10 Players

(UTC +10) 0700 - 0800 Hrs and after 1800Hrs

This equates to

(UTC) 2100 - 2200 Hrs and after 0800 Hrs
(UTC -8) 1300 - 1400 Hrs and after 0000Hrs

To get the windows above polish could be done;

(UTC +10) 0000 - 0759Hrs and after 1000Hrs
(UTC) 1300 - 2159Hrs and after 0000Hrs
(UTC -8) 0900 - 1359Hrs and after 0400 Hrs

(Note all times are in local to that time zone)

So the problem is not that the neighbour help lasts 8Hrs, but more the number of active neighbours and their location to suit the time when you are online to make the most of this neighbour help.

By having a good mix of active players from different time zones then there is a good chance that you will have the cultural boost when you are online but that will not be guaranteed due to the random chance factors such as they choose not to help your cultural item and choose your main hall or builders.

If you change the time this cover lasts you will actually reduce the amount of cultural help you can get from 3 neighbour helps to 2 neighbour helps per cultural item in a 24 Hour period. If the neighbours that help come on between the 8 and 12 hour period then there is the chance you will loose more cultural help as there will be less culture available with the 12Hr duration so the only other option for them is builders or coin to your main hall.

We must remember that this is a closed beta with a limited number of players. Hopefully by the time the game goes live there will be more active players and with a good mix of time zones to overcome this problem.

So looking long term I would say no to any change to the cultural help time.
All this calculation actually do not work when the game goes on live server ...I agree that on the English server majority will be from the UK and surrounding countries ... but its not limited to them only... this game will go live on only one server first (most possibly the English server as in the past thats how Inno went live ) ...and that time many from around the world will join the game without even waiting for their country's server to start .... So the English server will have players from around the world just like other games of Inno ... timings will be different for different players on that for sure ... But Even then 8hrs needs more number of visits by neighbors than the requested 12hrs ... In a game where its difficult to change the inactive neighborhood frequently this will be a bigger issue in the game when it goes on the live server...

I am not asking anything thats not been done before ... The same thing's implemented on FOE too (sorry for the comparison but i can't explain it in any other way than this) and the so-called balance is well maintained over there ... Infact in that game players can have all the cultures themselves if they really want (and if thats not enough u can even buy better cultures with diamonds those which lasts for many ages /eras).... they don't need to be dependent on neighbors at all over there for polishing but still its 12hrs over there ...the inactive players are changed every 2 weeks ... sometimes even the whole neighborhood changed after 2 weeks ... and the polishing holds good for 12 hrs over there .....And in a game like Elvenar where its being difficult to have / maintain the maximum bonus on our own and have to be compulsorily depend on neighbors the dev's want to keep 8hrs ???? Cannot understand the logic here apart from the dev's not wanting us to have the maximum bonus at all ...seriously ...:confused:


Lowering the bonus would also harm many players who are in dead zones, so I don't think that is a solution, just a new problem. If you happen to have one or two neighbors who DO play with you at the right times and they are the only ones who visit you, then dropping the bonus while those few are there would do equal harm. So, no, I don't think that would be of value. In fact, lowering the bonus would only be a detriment to many.

I know ddevil wanted me to move the idea, but I will reiterate it here, that perhaps allowing us to choose an extra 4 hour culture bonus if we go visit all our neighbors would help solve this. It would encourage people to visit their neighbors....it would give you an extra 4 hour time window if you are on a different playing time zone than your neighbor....and it would offset the fact that some players get help by doing absolutely nothing all the time. (The rest of my idea was that if you visit all your neighbors you could choose to either get a 4 hour culture bonus, an extra 5% builder time, or an extra number of coins....your choice each 24 hour period....that way you get rewarded for helping your competitors, it encourages neighbor visits, it helps those in a dead zone, and rewards those later in the game when going around to a gigantic neighborhood is a pain and encourages them to visit all players, not just the ones they know visit them back, and it isn't so large an additional bonus that it would throw the game off kilter.)

Forgive me ddevil, I don't mean to step on your idea, but if the only way this gets forwarded is if it gets tweaked, at least this tweak wouldn't cost us.
No worries mate.... Well I requested you not give another suggestion in this thread because i did not want to steer away from the main suggestion ...but looks like its already steered away now ... you are free to post any additional suggestions in this as you may wish because I am not going to say anything more in this thread...its a free for all thread now ....:D
 

Lauwi

Ex-Team Member
do you mean that for the developers it must be that hard to reach higher levels of culture ?
if developers intent is for all of us to play at level 100%, why do they not just admit it ?o_O
Muf-Muf has explained in the "Bonus Recalculation - Changes in Culture" announcement what the intention of the developers is regarding to the Culture Bonus Levels:
You are supposed to reach the first two Bonus levels on your own and therefore they will grant a 25% bonus. The last two Bonus levels are intended to be reached with Neighborly Help and this is why they will give only a 10% Bonus.
The developers didn't have the intention to make it hard to reach the higher Culture Bonus Levels. It is doable to reach the Culture Level of 150% without the help of any neighbours. :)

But let's get back on-topic: if the developers would think that a 12 hours timer with the current bonus percentage would unbalance the game, would you prefer the current 8 hours timer with the current bonus percentage or a 12 hours timer with a lower bonus percentage? Some of the supporters of the idea have already given their answers. (Thanks! :D )

Of course, we could also think about Bobbykitty's idea of a 4 hours timer bonus if you have aided all of your neighbours. I'd like to discuss this idea in the original thread of the idea (click) and a similar idea in a second thread (click), because these ideas discuss features that could be implemented indepent from an extension of the culture bonus timer.
 

DeletedUser651

Guest
In case my verbosity has gotten in the way of clarity :p...

I would be against increasing the timer to 12 hours at the expense of lowering the bonus percentage.