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Discussion Fellowship Adventures

Arayla

Well-Known Member
My apologies, I should have said "misleading" and not "disingenuous" since you kinda made a straw man from nothing. No one asked for the entire process to be automatic.

Just so I'm clear, having the claim window pop-up automatically would be ok, but allowing players to collect more than 1 is bad?
So you'd rather be interrupted while collecting than to just be allowed to collect? Really?o_O
It feels as if you are aggressively challenging lika1961 and contributing nothing new. Players should be able to express their opinion here.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
It feels as if you are aggressively challenging lika1961 and contributing nothing new. Players should be able to express their opinion here.
Thanks for your contribution. Question: if "players should be able to express their opinion" does that somehow not include me?
As for my challenging and questioning of ilka1961's position, shouldn't they be able to elaborate and further explain their opinion?

I for one welcome any challenge or question of my positions- that's how truly great ideas are formed: with the most information and deepest examination possible.
A simple "Well that's how I feel and I'm entitled to do so unchallenged" is garbage and a huge part of what is wrong with the world.
 
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DeletedUser2817

Guest
@SoggyShorts I think what some may take exception to is your tone. Suggesting that expressing one's opinions in a particular way is "garbage and a huge part of what is wrong with the world" seems a somewhat disproportionate response and out of keeping with the general tone of the game and the forum.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
@SoggyShorts I think what some may take exception to is your tone.
I'm certain that's a part of it, but I absolutely loathe that when 2 people disagree a third one jumps in with "everyone is entitled to their opinion"
It does nothing to further the discussion -- the opposite in fact.
Are we so fragile that having a minor opinion questioned will shatter us?

The issue is simple:
Would allowing extra collections count towards the next badge be harmful to the game?

I say no because the strategy and teamwork happen during the setting phase, not the collection phase. When your productions are complete there aren't any more decisions to be made, it's too late for that.

BUT I'm open to being told why I may be wrong.
 
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Scoobydoo

Forum Moderator
Elvenar Team
@SoggyShorts you are not wrong, you are very much entitled to your opinion. But please remember that @lika1961 is also entitled to his opinion.
You have to take onboard that it is not only your opinion that counts and poo pooing everyone else's opinion does not make you the only person in the room with a valid opinion.
Please try to remember that is possible to disagree without such strong reactions that you then upset others. You need to consider the feelings of others when you respond and stop being so vitriolic that it comes across as an attack rather than a difference of opinion.
 

DeletedUser2817

Guest
The flaw I see in the reasoning that people's intentions are made manifest when they set a production and it should be automatic at collection is that people might set productions and use spells and build troops for any number of reasons. We do that every day as part of our gameplay. So basically a Fellowship could collect all the necessary badges and complete the waypoints by just playing along and noticing what badges happen to complete. You could build one of each manufactory type at the beginning of the event, produce 3 and 9 hour productions per your usual habit, build troops, and complete most of the required badges without giving anything another thought. The exceptions would be the 24-hour workshop and goods runs, which probably not all that many people do on a regular basis (but perhaps some less active players do).

If we weren't required to collect badges deliberately, so far today in the course of my usual play, without doing anything special for the Fellowship Adventure, I would have accumulated 2 Treants Guild, 2 Bakers Guild, 3 Farmers Delight, 2 Wonder Society, 1 Elvarian Guard, 4 Sacks of Coins, 1 Witch's Hat, 1 Wand and 1 Magic Potion. People could just do whatever they normally do and accumulate badges and then apply them for prizes, maybe with a tiny bit of planning about building some extra tier 1 factories at the beginning.

I think requiring people to pay attention and collect badges is not too much to ask and does not substantially impair the Fun of the Fellowship Adventure. Of course I can understand that people may disagree.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
The entire post above
@Crowella See, now THAT is a valid defense of an opinion! Well done.

I would say that this:
So basically a Fellowship could collect all the necessary badges and complete the waypoints by just playing along and noticing what badges happen to complete. You could build one of each manufactory type at the beginning of the event, produce 3 and 9 hour productions per your usual habit, build troops, and complete most of the required badges without giving anything another thought.
Might be a stretch. Even just 1 route for 3 stages takes hundreds of badges, and those would not be made by accident. The flacons, golden bracelets, necklaces, and statues are 99% deliberate since almost no one makes unboosted goods outside of the FA and if they do then they probably aren't in much of an F so the A doesn't matter. Even your production today of
40 bread
70 simple tools
15 groceries
Seems a little on the high side if the average # of workshops is around 10.
Still, the point is valid that in a FS of 25 there would be dozens of "accidental" badges made each day. This could be easily offset with some rebalancing though.

Perhaps a first step would be a compromise of 1 complete badge and 1 partial.
e.g you could collect up to 5 toolboxes (1 badge) and 5 more(5/5 stored) and the 11th would be wasted.
It would at least allow you to accidentally grab 1 extra precious ring/giant globe/Royal bed without ruining 3h/24h/48h of effort.

@Scoobydoo you know I love you, but I really hope you don't feel that everyone is entitled to share their opinion without challenge or comment or rebuttal?
I mean in some peoples opinions vaccines cause autism, 9-11 was an inside job and the moon landing was faked. Surely if people are entitled to share opinions then others are entitled to ask for more information/clarification etc.
If however you're just saying I need to do it nicer, you're probably right- I've never quite wrapped my head around how personally people can take things when it's their ideas and not their person I am refuting. I shall endeavor to put on my special snowflake-proof-soft-touch gloves when disagreeing for these brief moments of sunshine that I bring with me wherever I go.;)
 
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Scoobydoo

Forum Moderator
Elvenar Team
@SoggyShorts (and I adore you too) Of course I (and everyone else) look forward to your (and everyone else's) opinion. But what I was asking (very nicely) is for you to just be a little more gentle in your arguments.
I am a feisty little baggage if you get me going. But I rant at the screen and get it out of my system before I reply to anything.
Everyone has feelings and they are very important and you have to think of everyone when you respond to anyone
 

DeletedUser2817

Guest
@SoggyShorts, I do have some extra workshops since I just completed the Queen of Seas Event. So for example I collected 18 baskets of groceries when I woke up, did a few rounds of simple tools while I was eating breakfast, taking a shower and reading the news of the day, then made bread a few times in between various chores. I am probably more active than your average player, particularly on Saturdays, but over the course of a week it's easy to see how 20 people could get 5-7 each of several different kinds of badges.

Things shouldn't be too hard, but they shouldn't be too easy, either. I am fortunate enough not to have experienced the previous FA system, which sounds pretty awful, but I think they've found a decent balance with the way the new one works.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
This is the limit of participation for a number of players, and I think participation should be easy just playing the way you normally do. There will always be players who plan around the less active players.

So basically a Fellowship could collect all the necessary badges and complete the waypoints by just playing along and noticing what badges happen to complete.
I completely agree that the logic is completely flawed for creating frustration over misclicks and the crowded cities, poor ability to properly see what you are clicking, etc., and just ignoring these problems and somehow coming to the conclusion that there is more planning involved by making it so the 10 necklaces YOU PLANNED and SET UP weren't really planned if you try and collect them all at once. How do you possible come to that conclusion. What other purpose is there to have level 1 non-boosted manufacturers? Soggy is completely correct that Inno is completely out of touch with the realities of the game play to come to this conclusion.

This was a total miss and I got so frustrated with the misclicks, I leave the manufacturer badges to others in the FS. But, there is a ratio between the number of workshop and manufacturer badges needed and if you were really planning well, you'd set up equal ratios of them. I set up one manufacturer badge because it is impossible to misclick on one, so that is planning because of interface issues, not for what would be best for the FA.


@CrowellaPerhaps a first step would be a compromise of 1 complete badge and 1 partial.
e.g you could collect up to 5 toolboxes (1 badge) and 5 more(5/5 stored) and the 11th would be wasted.
It would at least allow you to accidentally grab 1 extra precious ring/giant globe/Royal bed without ruining 3h/24h/48h of effort.
 

Potvorisko

Well-Known Member
Great improvement ! Now, when we have finaly this system of gathering badges on. What about to change a bottomless pit? I would suggest to add there also badges for coins, army, wonders. Really interesting, it could be with enchantments budges...or even with some new ones in future. Because now, when it comes to the pit, it is just about the great cities, that have a lot of space for the manufacturies and workshops. But by adding also the rest of budges (exept statues, that were in pit before and were horible), it could be greater challenge for fellowships. That just my idea, Now I have plenty of those cions etc. badges and I can not use them any more, when we are in the pit.
 

DeletedUser1657

Guest
So basically a Fellowship could collect all the necessary badges and complete the waypoints by just playing along and noticing what badges happen to complete.
I think you are seriously underestimating the quantity of badges needed, especially for map 3. My beta fellowship is somewhat relaxed but intentionally working on paths and we will struggle to get the 3rd stage done. I can see a fellowship "accidentaly" getting stage 1 and maybe stage 2 with minimal effort, but honestly even now it only takes minimal effort for those. Pretty easy to adjust the przes accordingly. Its why I think the prize for stage 3 in the adventurer is too weak as it is barely better then stage 2 prize.,

I think requiring people to pay attention and collect badges is not too much to ask and does not substantially impair the Fun of the Fellowship Adventure. Of course I can understand that people may disagree.
I think adjusting badge numbers and or prizes is a small price to pay for removing the frustration from the players who are intentionally participating in the adventure and would result in a win win situation. Sadly I realise this will never happen due to the already stated intentions

I completely agree that the logic is completely flawed for creating frustration over misclicks and the crowded cities, poor ability to properly see what you are clicking, etc., and just ignoring these problems and somehow coming to the conclusion that there is more planning involved by making it so the 10 necklaces YOU PLANNED and SET UP weren't really planned if you try and collect them all at once. How do you possible come to that conclusion.
Agreed, figuring out how many badges and who does what badge is all done in the planning. I have seen fellowships with huge spreadsheets planning out how to tackle the adventure before it even hits a live server. To then tell these people they failed to plan because of a miss-click or a glitch/bug (seen this before) is a bit of a slap in the face.


On a positive side with the new system, we can finally see in-game nice and easily all of the badges and what they require. For an event that prides it-self on planning it is good that this basic information is in-game rather than having to use third party website. Only other nice addition in this regard would be an ability to preview all 3 maps. While we get by using beta information we are told there can be changes from beta to live, so if you want us to plan you really need to allow us to see this information in game so we can plan.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I had 2 necklace badges set up and and I misclicked and lost 50% of my effort. All non-boosted manufacturers for badges are now deleted. I'm done and no longer accepting unnecessary frustration because of total miss in this nonsense that this is somehow about planning. I'm not making them anymore.
 

Calenmir

Well-Known Member
I'm so sorry that happened and yeah, sadly that happened to me too. In fact, it happens to me at least once on every FA (I have 1 beta and 5 live cities, so I really do feel your pain). But we did get exactly what was asked for and that was a way to make it EASIER to COLLECT the badges.

So now we need to work on asking for the next stage of this - which is multiple pickups without losses.

I honestly do feel that we need a better system when collecting badges. Not everyone can put all their workshops and factories in a neat little row so you can know exactly what each one is producing. Mobile makes seeing that impossible (or at least I don't know how you do it if you know), so multiple or we could call it stacked collecting is necessary. Misclicking is not the fault of the devs, especially if you're on a pc (as I am - I fully get it's my fault), however on mobile it does create a huge issue.

Hopefully knowing this and being even a little understanding, they will consider stacking badge collections. I'm not sure a misclick will ever get anyone to buy diamonds, so hoping that knowing this spur them on to improving pickup options for the next stage of this event.
 

CiraKelley

Well-Known Member
I'm thrilled with the new badge screen/selection window! In the past, I wasn't interested in doing the majority of Adventure rounds we had, due to constantly having to decline badge quests. It was so straining on the wrists! ;) Now, I'll play these Adventures anytime! I don't really care much about the end of pathway prizes, personally. It's fun to have the whole fellowship working together on one common goal. Thank you!

As far as the subject of not being able to do multiples of the same badge, I don't know if having the ability to collect multiples at the same time is the right answer. It should be a challenge to collect a certain amount for one badge of that batch.
Maybe something like an ability to click on the Fellowship Adventure quest on the side of our screens could activate our workshops and good buildings, etc. to be lit up. We could have some sort of feature that would slow down our swiping ability (once they are lit up) so we were then forced to only collect from one building at a time (or at least slow down our swiping when collecting)...it could eliminate a lot of mis-clicks if we were forced to go slower when collecting for a badge. I don't know. I think that's a tough call with not a lot of room for negotiating.
 

Richord

Well-Known Member
about misclicking/not able to collect '10 smith's' at the same time:
Please don't talk about this... this is your own problem and part of FA!
misclicking in Tournament is also your own fault, so deal with it in silence :)
 

Calenmir

Well-Known Member
I'm thrilled with the new badge screen/selection window! In the past, I wasn't interested in doing the majority of Adventure rounds we had, due to constantly having to decline badge quests. It was so straining on the wrists! ;) Now, I'll play these Adventures anytime! I don't really care much about the end of pathway prizes, personally. It's fun to have the whole fellowship working together on one common goal. Thank you!

As far as the subject of not being able to do multiples of the same badge, I don't know if having the ability to collect multiples at the same time is the right answer. It should be a challenge to collect a certain amount for one badge of that batch.
Maybe something like an ability to click on the Fellowship Adventure quest on the side of our screens could activate our workshops and good buildings, etc. to be lit up. We could have some sort of feature that would slow down our swiping ability (once they are lit up) so we were then forced to only collect from one building at a time (or at least slow down our swiping when collecting)...it could eliminate a lot of mis-clicks if we were forced to go slower when collecting for a badge. I don't know. I think that's a tough call with not a lot of room for negotiating.
This is a great idea! We know it's been said that stacking on collecting isn't going to happen, so I love that you've thought AROUND that by finding a way to avoid mistake collections.

Hoping they/Inno are still watching and listening for good ideas!