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Discussion Fellowship Adventures

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
As for residue badges, those heavily favor the bigger cities who have tons of spell fragments and CCs and time boosters to use in crafting.

I absolutely love these changes,
It does not favour big town, if favors CC optimised towns (and saving CC between FA)

And yes to a certain extend it favors bigger towns, it favours planning and adjusting. you can plan ahead a bucketload of T1 factories, store them in your inventory and bring them out during FA using teleport spells.

But what it mainly does is limit the effect of slumming, of collecting huge dead town filled with hundreds of level 1 buildings just for a FA.
To a limited extend it stops the maddness that many of us complained about.

Many of us complained competitive FA ain't fun because it's all about destruction not about building.
this change does exactly that, it favours "regular play" badges instead of slumms. the effect of a slumm is severly limited because the limit of play badges you can aquire.

I think with this change they did exactly the right thing.
Slumms are limited by the lowest common denominator and those are bracelets and esotherics.

Looking at the original beta numbers VV and T1 was a bit on the high side for a non competitive fellowship, but the current numbers on live seem to be pretty ok,

You can choose between 3 routes, 1 is more tournament/crafting foccused, 1 is more long production focussed, and one is somewhere in the middle. this gives every fellowship a fair option to reach the end going the short route.

Specialised fellowships will adapt to the new format and still get crazy scores, it just takes time to adapt but in the end they will still be out of reach, but at least now the FA do not feel like we can play with fun without the need to adjust our towns to much as more casual players.

Just doing your thing rewards you with plenty badges now to help out your fellowship, the pressure to sacrifice parts of your town for the fellowship is now very limited. and thats a good thing, it's still a team effort like it always was, but without the destruction.
 

galrond

Well-Known Member
I´m very happy, that they got rid of the one-of-each T1 demand to make badges.
There´s still a demand to make some L1 factories/workshops, but not in the previous scale.
So all-in-all it´s, for the reasons mentioned by @CrazyWizard, a great inprovement to the FA.
I do have some complaints:

It´s annoying, that you have to make junk to get VV. But in many ways that says more about the things you can make, than the VV demand itself. It helps a lot that the demand is 10 instead of 15. It´s more viable to make low VV productions.

I don´t see any reason why bracelets only count T1, but I applaud the idea of counting produced goods. I still think the demand is too high, but lowering it has helped.
I know some would think, that the bracelets would be too easy to make if T2 and T3 counted as well. Requirement ofc had to be altered to reflect counting them as well. It´s not as a mean to alter difficulty, that I want them included. It´s to remove the sole focus on T1 ;)
 

guivou

Well-Known Member
on live world i am in a fellowship where bracelet is not at all the trouble (making more than 100/day ) , we have more trouble with guard and hat than bracelets ... (we are a relatively small fellowship with no 3 military buildings , and not so much provinces 10+ to open in the tournament )

so this event is very interesting. Challenges are different , 3 cities 3 ways of playing : previously the more space you had the better you were ; it's different now , you have to adapt path on the map to avoid your production weak point .
 

Deleted User - 78306

Guest
I have an idea how to make fa more atractive.
What about giving on each point of the map or on every pit stage 1 kp for 3 players, who gave most badges at that point?
 

galrond

Well-Known Member
I have an idea how to make fa more atractive.
What about giving on each point of the map or on every pit stage 1 kp for 3 players, who gave most badges at that point?
This is a very bad idea. FA is and should be about cooperation, to reach a common goal.
It should not be about internal competition for KP o_O
They should have better rewards in FA, but this is not the way to do it.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I have an idea how to make fa more atractive.
What about giving on each point of the map or on every pit stage 1 kp for 3 players, who gave most badges at that point?
As galrond says, very bad idea in a team event.
They should do 2 things:

  1. remove the requirement for players to insert a badge in order to get rewards
  2. add a prize to every single spot on all maps. At this point, I don't care if it's 1 KP or a 3-minute timer, just something.

In that order, otherwise, they'll screw it up.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Just quoting you, since you were last, but this is for everyone else saying something like this. should they also remove the requirement to participate in the tournament and the Spire and just give everyone the rewards that the team worked for?

Good point, 1 of the things people complained so long about wat that a 30 point "leech" could get all the tournament rewards, and people where so happy when the spire was introduced that one of the best things was that you could not "leech" on your fellowship.

Now the proposal is a "leech++" option.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
Just quoting you, since you were last, but this is for everyone else saying something like this. should they also remove the requirement to participate in the tournament and the Spire and just give everyone the rewards that the team worked for?
But you have 6 days to participate in tournaments.
If FS is going the easest route, organisator often must check if everyone participated, because if FS is active and big enough but doesn't want to compete for points, the routes in 1st and 2nd round are often finished way before everyone participates.

So yes, I would be for the suggestion that whole FS gets the reward even for non-participating members (for whatever reason - f.e. some people work for 12hrs/16hrs shifts for example and are not always keen to go to FA right away when they get finaly home).
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Just quoting you, since you were last, but this is for everyone else saying something like this. should they also remove the requirement to participate in the tournament and the Spire and just give everyone the rewards that the team worked for?
First of all, it's a little disingenuous to quote 1 part of a 2-part plan after I say that they are clearly linked, but aside from that, you know very well why they aren't the same things, but I'll spell it out for anyone else who may read this.

Here are the obvious counters to your counter:
  • Under the current system, does placing 1 sack of coins badge in a single map spot that doesn't even get finished really make you an FA contributor?
  • What about when someone does a single tournament encounter and gets all of the team tournament rewards?
  • If you have an issue with anyone's participation level in any part of Elvenar you have a very easy solution available to you.
  • If you want to add rewards to every spot on the FA map in order to make doing more than one path interesting then only giving them to those who place badges in that particular spot completely wrecks the team aspect of the FA and makes it PvP within your own FS.
  • Someone who only clears one encounter in the tournament does not take anything away from their FS, but someone taking one of the few badge spots in order to get the prize for that spot would actively prevent another FS member from getting that reward.
If you want to see fellowships torn apart, just add in-house PvP during the FA by not removing the insertion requirement before adding spot rewards.

-----------------------------------------------------
Even without the implementation of rewards-per-spot, yes I think they should remove the requirement to insert one badge.

In the spire, you get rewards(without taking anything away from others) based on your own participation level so that's a totally different system than getting everything for just showing up and therefore an irrelevant comparison.

In the tournament, it's more like the FA since just showing up gets you some rewards, but you still miss out on the vast majority of them.
So yes, they could remove that requirement too without taking away anything of interest from the game. The issue I see with that is long-term away players getting significant rewards 52 times per year, so some way to check a player's pulse may be necessary for the tournaments.

That doesn't really apply to the ~5 FAs per year though, and the set up in the FA isn't an anytime anywhere anyhow contribution like the tournament, it's much more awkward.

The bottom line is that the single badge requirement for 100% rewards in the FA is an annoyance that doesn't really add anything positive to the experience.

Edit: If it was adjusted so that 1 badge on any stage awarded all prizes for every stage (a pulse check like in the tournament) I'd support that too.
 
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Lelanya

Well-Known Member
I think green is the best. But this depends on many factors. Some players are in a sweet spot for Bracelets. Some FSs have lots of room for shanty towns, so may favour a different one.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
On Live we have gone orange, orange, green, and we are only doing one path per stage for the chests.

Plus, orange has been almost always the easiest path for the first two stages in every version of the FA.
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
I think green is the best. But this depends on many factors. Some players are in a sweet spot for Bracelets. Some FSs have lots of room for shanty towns, so may favour a different one.

I'd like to know what those factors are, if you have a link handy, please.

Otherwise, my FS went green, and it's not looking like a great choice to me, so I wanted to know why.

Bracelets are the super-easy one now. I've got several of them (well, not as many as I have guards, since I had 17 after my first day). It's necklaces, statues, and blacksmiths that are hard for me.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
We have done orange, orange, orange.

It was the path the the least amount of "slumm items" and we do not see that many issues in getting the other items.
It fittet perfectly in our playstyle where we can enjoyt the FA without any prep work.

In the end it was so easy we decided to do the entire first map and an extra blue point on the second to qualify for an extra little prize at the end (T100 fellowship) but thats it.

The slowest productions for us are boring things like dwarvenm farmers and blacksmiths.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
We came to the conclusion that crafting twice would change nothing on average, but might be a better option for esotheric production.
It at least removes the feeling some people have that it's a tombola now (a random thing as you cannot predict your recipes)

it's a bit frustrating when you get all crappy recipes and it barely combines into 1 esotheric, also you almost never aquire 10 vapor.
It would remove what some feel the "injustice" in this part of the FA.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
crafting twice would change nothing on average
By my opinion it would make things worse. It should be either craft 1 recipe or left on amount of vision vapor.
The only ones who would like to have crafting twice are those who craft relics and the cheapest stuff like that.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
By my opinion it would make things worse. It should be either craft 1 recipe or left on amount of vision vapor.
The only ones who would like to have crafting twice are those who craft relics and the cheapest stuff like that.

the idea is to slow down production and to limit the power of slumms.
It does exactly that, who cares what someone decides to make. it still serves the original purpuse. does it matter if someone chooses a big or a small item?

It might even help out "new players" as they are limited in the amount of fragments they have (unlike us) and they can pick the cheaper options and still help out.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
As for residue badges, those heavily favor the bigger cities who have tons of spell fragments and CCs and time boosters to use in crafting. After that, it is the limit of the 6-hour refresh, which of course can be done right away with diamonds. Residue badges feel like a way to kill off fellowships full of small cities, preventing them from getting points on the same level as the big fellowships. Of course, anything that needs the Magic Academy to do it will favor bigger cities over small ones, when diamonds are not spent to level it up to max.
If that only would be true.
In my FS there are a lot of huge cities. And we all have plenty of CC's and timeboosters because we all go to the top of the spire every week. But we struggle anyway.
Totally agreed that residue badges are still a big problem in larger cities. The key here is that it even more difficult for cities who have not updated the magic academy, but even with a fully leveled academy, I think this badge is the most out of balance badge.

It does not favour big town, if favors CC optimised towns (and saving CC between FA)

And yes to a certain extend it favors bigger towns, it favours planning and adjusting. you can plan ahead a bucketload of T1 factories, store them in your inventory and bring them out during FA using teleport spells.

But what it mainly does is limit the effect of slumming, of collecting huge dead town filled with hundreds of level 1 buildings just for a FA.
To a limited extend it stops the maddness that many of us complained about.

Many of us complained competitive FA ain't fun because it's all about destruction not about building.
this change does exactly that, it favours "regular play" badges instead of slumms. the effect of a slumm is severly limited because the limit of play badges you can aquire.

I think with this change they did exactly the right thing.
Slumms are limited by the lowest common denominator and those are bracelets and esotherics.

Looking at the original beta numbers VV and T1 was a bit on the high side for a non competitive fellowship, but the current numbers on live seem to be pretty ok,

You can choose between 3 routes, 1 is more tournament/crafting foccused, 1 is more long production focussed, and one is somewhere in the middle. this gives every fellowship a fair option to reach the end going the short route.

Specialised fellowships will adapt to the new format and still get crazy scores, it just takes time to adapt but in the end they will still be out of reach, but at least now the FA do not feel like we can play with fun without the need to adjust our towns to much as more casual players.

Just doing your thing rewards you with plenty badges now to help out your fellowship, the pressure to sacrifice parts of your town for the fellowship is now very limited. and thats a good thing, it's still a team effort like it always was, but without the destruction.
I am not quite sure how bringing the residue badge to a better balance would cause the slumming of the old FA.

Do one path on each map is a fairly moot point in that there are lots of choices about how to do that and there is quite enough of all badges with fairly minor adjustments to be able to that, however for FA that wish to compete in the FA, well, you will need to convert land to level 1 workshops and level 1 manufacturers, and put out extra level 1 that are fully leveled. But I think whether you do that is really limited by what you can get from the residue and the degree to which you are will to burn your tournament for an FA.
 
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