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Discussion Fellowship Adventures

galrond

Well-Known Member
There will always be bottlenecks in FA.
Some you can bypass (to a certain degree) by preparation.
Statues, necklaces and blacksmiths you can produce in great numbers, by plastering your city with L1 building. Time the production, and harvest when the event starts. It´s not a "natural" state of the city, but you can to a certain degree return your city to normal after harvest (at least if your FS ain´t competeing for rank). You may take the time to make brews, carpenters and farmers before reverting to "normal", if you deem, that you won´t produce these by normal activity.
Ghosts could be a bottleneck, if you´re in a FS with low tournament/spire activity. But if you don´t compete for rank, I don´t think they shouldn´t be a problem.
Witch hats/Elemental marbles shouldn´t be a problem, unless your FS has low tournament activity.
Druid staff shouldn´t be a problem, unless your MA is lowlevel, and/or have to make Witch hats. I know you can get some from spire, but that´s a lottery (with low output).
Society badge shouldn´t be a problem. If you can´t donate KP to AW, then I doubt you can do many of the other badges either. I don´t say you can use the KP to own benefit.
Tiara shouldn´t be a problem. If you can make witch hats, then you can make tiaras.
Residue will always be a bottleneck. There´s so many limiting factors on VV production: both shortage on mats, and bad recipies comes to mind.
Sacks of coins/Guard badges just seem to roll in. Few FS will ever see these as a bottleneck.

This all leads to Bracelets. They´re currently a bottleneck, and I can in no way see a remotely reasonable explanation for this.
This is the caterers equvilant to the guards badge. Caterers produce goods, fighters produce troops.
They only count T1. This is like guard badge only counting HM troops. It makes NO sense at allo_O
I agree there will always be bottlenecks, but this shouldn`t be one of them
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
Nope, it's not more clicking to simply give us more badges for the same clicks by reducing requirements, unless you count handing in the badge 2x per day instead of 1 time. Then yeah, I'm advocating for 2 more clicks per to improve the balance by 100%
But it is, the more "bottleneck" badges FS can produce => the more other badges needed => the more clicks required, up to insane numbers in old setup.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
But it is, the more "bottleneck" badges FS can produce => the more other badges needed => the more clicks required, up to insane numbers in old setup.
Again, that's 1% thinking. 99% of players would be happier if it was more reasonably balanced.
Players who enjoy the FA actually WANT to make badges and really play the FA.
Not thousands of badges to do a hundred pit flips, just a reasonable shot at clearing the maps with enough effort. Maybe a cycle or 2 in the pit if they try really hard and plan/organize well as a team.

If a FS that enjoys the FAs can make enough badges for all 3 paths on all 3 maps and enough for ~5 pit rounds but because of bracelets they have to do 1 path each time with no pit how do you think they feel?

Is this a better way for the game as a whole compared to giving all of these thousands of players outside the top 3 a better chance at actually playing the FA?
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
FS that enjoys FA can afford making 160 bracelets for all 3 paths + some for pit even with current beta setup (I think they would lower amount of goods required for bracelet on live same as they did for other new badges). That's just old preparation steps not working anymore. New rules = new challenges. That's better than placing same field of lvl1 and clicking on it over and over again.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
FS that enjoys FA can afford making 160 bracelets for all 3 paths + some for pit even with current beta setup
Nope. Check the numbers again. My FS finished top 20 in the FA and had zero chance to do all 3 paths without diamonds or hundreds of timer hours.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
May be not all of you enjoy FA?
Sigh. It didn't matter because if everyone made the max bracelets instead of the ~90% of max that we made we still wouldn't have gotten further than we did. Most of us could only make 1 per day. Some managed 2.

If the top 20 can't even clear all 3 paths something is broken. Actually, I'm not even sure the top 10 all cleared every stage.

I know you keep on saying clickfest clickfest clickfest, but if the badge price was reduced that doesn't force you to do anything while it does allow others to do more if they wish.

Ruining everyone else's enjoyment to keep your advantage is kinda sad. As I said, I don't really care for me since I'm lazy and I'd rather just do 1 path each stage anyways, but there are going to be thousands of frustrated and upset players on Live and I'm able to see past my own desires enough to want to change that.
YMMV
 
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Karvest

Well-Known Member
Not everyone. You claim that 99% like more badges. I claim that a lot more than 1% stick to 1 path in old FAs due to excessive clicking required for any competition, and new setup may convince them to do more.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@Marindor Did Bracelet's requirements went down? If so, how much?
Since some of us have seen the requirements for several badges going down since FA was on beta (source Elvenar wiki), now would be a good time to inform us in this topic - you know, the possitive message from Devs, that they listened to us and decided to lower requirements for several badges.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Imagine if changes were made to the tourney system so that you could suddenly only do 6 chests even though you can normally do 10 in your sleep.

The requirement for Bracelets and Arcane Residues needs to be drastically reduced. It shouldn't be necessary to use a lot of your time instants to just scrape through one route on each map. An FS that is capable of a top 5 finish should not have to settle for 14th place through no fault of their own.
The changes to the tournament were equivalent to that and you can't work around it. It isn't just about placing in the tournament, it is also about what you can actually do. I was building resources doing 17k scores and now I'm depleting resources on 10k scores on live so quite possibly 9k is what's sustainable, so I used to be able to do 80-90% more.

Maybe part of the dropping down in place is because other FS increased participation. We got second but we have been a mostly one path FS. We put in more effort because it was new and it did not slaughter our cities the same.

But it does look like they responded, arcane residue from 15 to 10 VV, relic one from 10 to 8, encounter one from 4 to 3 encounters, and that's within a week.

What happened with the tournament, after waiting 9+ weeks we essentially got the ability to do 1 extra province. They take away, 30-40 and give back one, like 3%. My proposal of setting province 50 level 6 to 200% and working difficulty backwards from there would give people an extra 3-6 provinces. The tournament adjustment was such a bad joke. They've made some reasonable adjustments on the spire. I just don't get it the degree to which they screwed over the best supporting players.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Great point, except that is also the amount of Statues needed, and I did that all by myself, 5 minutes after the FA started.
So, 10 players x 6 days vs 1 player x 0 days
How is that balanced?

I keep trying to figure out why you think having massive amounts of permanent excessive T1 buildings is good but a temporary L1 turd town is bad and now I see it:

This badge basically locks out normal fellowships and guarantees yours a top 3 finish. Nice.
1605015538031.png

Huh? How is emptying a city to make room for statues ahead of the FA "normal" playing and having the ability to make goods badges with your existing manufacturers not "normal" playing?
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Hi guys,

After the last Beta round, some changes will indeed be made to make it a bit easier on Live. The changes will be:
  • 15 VV to 10 VV
  • Spire/Tournament Encounters 4 to 3
  • Goods production reduced around 30%
  • Relics down to 8
The goods and VV requirements might still be on the high side. We had so many of the tournament and relic badges left over. Not sure if making it so you don't have to push in the tournament is such a good idea. I did read in the comments about FS doing their best ever in the tournament...
 

Aeva

Well-Known Member
I do think both the bracelet and the arcane are now much easier to make. The bracelet will be a bottleneck for every FS, but something has to be the hardest to obtain.
For bracelets everything that delivers basic goods counts. The new amount should be more doable. A reduction of about 30% is live two chapters lower then on the list that was made for the FSA on beta. It means carefull planning and an awareness to claim a bit clever with all the members. Many of whom also still have their mermaids, and their production also counts.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
You claim that 99% like more badges.
Nope. I claim that they would like it more balanced, and that having just one or two badges that matter will make a lot of players feel like they can barely contribute. 1 badge per day will not feel like an accomplishment.

Huh? How is emptying a city to make room for statues ahead of the FA "normal" playing and having the ability to make goods badges with your existing manufacturers not "normal" playing?
It's not.
  • Having a little empty space in your city because you are between guest races is "normal" for a few players in each FS outside the top.
  • Having 6-8 T1 in your city past chapter ~7 is not normal unless you are pure cater(also not normal) or a top player
  • Permanently adding 4-5 T1 and all of the pop buildings they need just to excel in the FA is not normal.
  • Teleporting those buildings in an out is also not normal.
 

Aeva

Well-Known Member
Please guys. Why can't we just respect everybody elses style? Whether you think you need level 1 workshops or you think you need T1 huge manufactories is not realy relevant I may hope. As long as you do not cheat or violate the rules you should be fine.
Point with the FSA is that one or another badge always will be the hardest. And that should be fine with everybody. What's not fine is if one badge is very loud and clear the one that is frustrating the whole adventure.