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Enar's Embassy needs serious rework

Should Enar's Embassy be reworked?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Arthus

Well-Known Member
My idea is to rework Enar's Embassy to make it actually useful to players in their cities.
Many players use enar's embassy as a wonder to build and then delete, to forge it's rune shards into other wonders which come later in the game.
There's absolutely no use of it's bonus -> broken rune shards per week and mana for scouting is not revelant to it's huge size (4x7). So much space can be used in much better way to produce more mana and more valuable goods.

Recently this ancient wonder won the poll of most useless ancient wonder in one of the live server's forums. I think it's time to discuss to do something about it.
Such beautiful and big ancient wonder shouldn't be skipped.

As said on elvengems:

"rocy rachel says: “I built this one but ended up selling it. It was far too much space for far too little.”
 

DeletedUser778

Guest
I think it's perfect.
The boni don't benefit my city/playstyle, so I never had to think about how to fit it in or distribute KP to it. :p
There's already so many great wonders that it is utopian to lvl them all up to decent levels without pushing, so I don't care about some more or less usefull wonders on the way.
 

Arthus

Well-Known Member
I think it's perfect.
The boni don't benefit my city/playstyle, so I never had to think about how to fit it in or distribute KP to it. :p
There's already so many great wonders that it is utopian to lvl them all up to decent levels without pushing, so I don't care about some more or less usefull wonders on the way.

Many live players have all maxed wonders, they have 11 or more accounts but our live team doesn't ban them for self-pushing so ...
Well this wonder is beautiful in my opinion and being worst in the game by majority's vote is not something that suits such wonder, but it seems any poll loses on these forums so there's no point to propose anything.
 

Marindor

Well-Known Member
This is more of a general discussion than an actual worked out proposal for a new idea in the game. I will move this thread to the right forum section :)
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
They should do a research that lets you "make it more efficient," and then upgrade it to a 3x6 size. That would make its size more in line with its value.
 

Deleted User - 81190

Guest
They should do a research that lets you "make it more efficient," and then upgrade it to a 3x6 size. That would make its size more in line with its value.
I doubt that with the current benefits of Embassy I would build it even if it would be 2x2 (well, perhaps just for hoarding purposes). I mean, mana per scout is pretty useless later in the game - regardless of amounts. Scouts take a long time later on, and you generally won't be timing them to get mana/supplies. At least with ToS supplies do not decay, but mana does. Dragon Abbey is a far better way of obtaining mana on demand (and it also has pretty useful secondary effect).

And 1-6 broken shards a week? Come on ;) Even without things like Fire Phoenix, easily available Ferris Wheels produce 1/day in 2x3 format with no KP commitments. And broken shards are capped at 10, and you only need them once in a while - so the rest of the time that production would be entirely wasted.

I just cannot see what can be done to make the Embassy a viable AW without completely changing what it does. I don't think just changing the numbers is going to cut it.
 

palmira

Well-Known Member
The Embassy is the most useless AW in the game, I really can't understand why anyone would built it no revamping of the rewards will ever make it useful even if you change the shards to runes and the mana to seeds. It is just too big
 

Loki Blue

Well-Known Member
At this chapter it would give me 17,760 mana per Scout, which I wouldn't mind, but I sure don't need that one broken shard every 168 hours. And that's quite a footprint it has.

While it has elements that I find pleasing, there is absolutely nothing that could be done to it to make me want to have that thing built in my city. Except possibly dropping the shard production, squaring it down to 3x3, making it tall and tree-like (or even making it a tree--a massive one, like Yggdrasil) with a fountain of ale bubbling out of its roots...

Of course, there's two Einherjar I'd never get out of that fountain. Odin thinks they died in battle after gaining their courage in an alehouse, but actually they pickled themselves in an alehouse near a small skirmish. One barely worth singing about. They only got in to Valhalla because I told Odin they died bravely against a horde of Orc (or something of the sort). I felt I owed it to them after that...er...misunderstanding with their wives (whom, in my defense, I thought were their daughters).

My bad. :eek:

At any rate, and all (shameful, simply shameful) joking aside, I have to agree with @CrazyWizard, @MinMax Gamer, and @palmira. I don't see an actual fix for it.
 

DeletedUser1657

Guest
Well, I'd say it's a close one with Thrones of the High Men, but perhaps thrones work for ranking players and/or players with hundreds of AW levels (for culture).

Unless you want ranking points thrones is completely useless. The sheer volume of wonder levels needed to get a decent amount of culture is so high that most players will never achieve it. They are better of placing an event culture building for more culture in less space. Personally it makes thrones the most useless.

Enars wonder at least gives some handy although completely situational. Its size and other aspects, as mentioned, above do make it pointless. If they significantly upped the broken shard amount/frequency and perhaps gave an additional increase to broken shard cap via this wonder, then perhaps some players might find a use for it. With a decent improvement in this space it actually has some benefit when combined with Spire and MA for those times you are not completing rune wheels.
 

DeletedUser332

Guest
Could've had it increase mana generation from all sources, allowing one to generate mana more quickly while also effectively raising one's mana cap. The last part is similar to the Maze of the Dark Matter's decay reduction, but I don't see why both couldn't exist as this is already the case for sentient goods production. I think this would be a lot more useful than the current mana-per-scout bonus while still being related to mana. The broken shard production is fine, as the problem with broken shards lies in the cap that's been in place for years, despite a claim that it's going to be lifted someday. My suspicion with that is that the cap isn't being lifted because doing so would essentially render normal runes obsolete for long-time/advanced players. They'd simply gather enough broken shards quickly enough (mainly from tournaments) in order to fill any and all of their rune needs whenever an AW calls for them, including brand-new AWs unlocked at the end of each chapter. Keeping the cap in place prevents this, even if it does annoy players that shards are very limited in usefulness as a result.
 

DeletedUser1657

Guest
The broken shard production is fine, as the problem with broken shards lies in the cap that's been in place for years, despite a claim that it's going to be lifted someday. My suspicion with that is that the cap isn't being lifted because doing so would essentially render normal runes obsolete for long-time/advanced players. They'd simply gather enough broken shards quickly enough (mainly from tournaments) in order to fill any and all of their rune needs whenever an AW calls for them, including brand-new AWs unlocked at the end of each chapter. Keeping the cap in place prevents this, even if it does annoy players that shards are very limited in usefulness as a result.

Well the cap is kind of irrelevant anyway if it is there to slow down players completeing rune circles. Sure it is effective for newer players but in terms of enar's we are talking end of chapter 9, so longer term players.

Many long term/advanced player likely have done enough tournaments that runes are bountiful enough that broken shards are irrelevant for any unlocked wonder. Or they have enough runes for something like enars to farm for broken shards.

For the new wonders this again is irrelevant for long term/advanced players as they can easily have a stash of ferris wheels from events that can be readily placed and farmed for new wonders. The fact that those buildings are tiny in size and 7 times faster than the wonder (first 5 levels) makes them a favoured option. Not counting any other event building that might offer broken shards. I know players who placed construct wonders within a week of unlocking them and having had the horrendous luck of having to use 80 broken shards as every rune broke after the first one. Granted that is likely an exception, most people won't have that bad luck even if they can't farm broken shards that quick. New wonders can be placed quickly if people are determined.

My guess is the cap staying at 10 is a programming issue and the crafting recipes was their solution. In terms of enars, short of changing its bonuses there are limits to how one can tweak the existing bonuses to be more attractive. Considering the approach of build and destroy provides broken shards it is likely that is a better producer of shards then the buildings actual benefit (certainly is faster). Considering the need for new runes isn't all the time people likely have time to replenish their stock of "disposable" enars runes for the next time they need to farm broken shards.
 

Deleted User - 60152

Guest
I'm one of those that just had to build all of the wonders - lol.

I love the suggestion made above about raising the cap on shards - if that was added to Enar's that would be a nice benefit. Still wouldn't make it a great AW though.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Increasing the cap for the number of broken shards is a great idea. It should also have an early collection time. No question this AW need a serious revamp.

Enars wonder at least gives some handy although completely situational. Its size and other aspects, as mentioned, above do make it pointless. If they significantly upped the broken shard amount/frequency and perhaps gave an additional increase to broken shard cap via this wonder, then perhaps some players might find a use for it. With a decent improvement in this space it actually has some benefit when combined with Spire and MA for those times you are not completing rune wheels.
 

Arthus

Well-Known Member
Maybe this broken shards bit is up to change... I think that's the problem with this wonder, it's just irrelevant. Mana bit is ok... it's just that the size of the building is not comparable to it's bonus...
 

DeletedUser332

Guest
For the new wonders this again is irrelevant for long term/advanced players as they can easily have a stash of ferris wheels from events that can be readily placed and farmed for new wonders. The fact that those buildings are tiny in size and 7 times faster than the wonder (first 5 levels) makes them a favoured option. Not counting any other event building that might offer broken shards. I know players who placed construct wonders within a week of unlocking them and having had the horrendous luck of having to use 80 broken shards as every rune broke after the first one. Granted that is likely an exception, most people won't have that bad luck even if they can't farm broken shards that quick. New wonders can be placed quickly if people are determined.

They could, but why would they? As a long-time player myself I consider ferris wheels to be pretty bad, especially if it's a choice for event prizes and not just something given to me along the way. Especially considering the astronomically low odds of 'breaking every rune after the first one' (horrendous luck doesn't even begin to approach how low those odds actually are), I find it unlikely that anyone would really choose to hoard ferris wheels in the vanishingly small likelihood that they're actually going to need some over-the-top broken shard production. Still though, this all comes back to the problem actually being the shard cap. Enar's production could be whatever Inno wanted it to be and it'd be 'fine' if there was no cap. It'd still be a permanent building that produces shards regularly over time. But the cap is still a limiting factor to prevent players from hoarding, much like the coin and supply caps we've had since the game launched and the decay mechanic introduced with the new 'permanent' resources. There may be ways to work around these limitations, but the fact remains that they're intended to limit a player's ability to generate/stockpile resources and keep them more engaged with the game. That's why I don't think there's anything wrong with Enar's shard production.
 

Arthus

Well-Known Member
An idea worth of resurrection...
It's still terrible and not worth putting in the city...
 
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