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Elvenar, now what?

ophion

ophion

Well-Known Member
Marindor said:
Hi guys,

Just wanted to emphasize once more (though I feel like it's for the umphteenth time :p) that all feedback is welcome and valuable, both positive and negative. We have received a lot of negative feedback and have never had any problems with that. What is important though, is whether or not it is really constructive feedback, or just ranting without contributing. As our forum rules also prescribe:



Saying things like "I hate the new Wholesaler for this and this reason" is valuable and constructive, because you explain why you think something is bad and we can forward these concerns for reconsideration, so we're happy when we receive such feedback. Saying things like "The devs are morons, they're not listening to us, they just want to steal our money, I'm gonna quit, this game is ruined, blabla" isn't constructive at all. It's just ranting, asking for negative attention and it isn't helpful in any way. Of course it's an indication that you're frustrated about something but still we're all grown ups (or most of us are :p) and should be able to get into a conversation with each other on a more sophisticated level than that, even when we're frustrated. We accomplish much more by explaining why things aren't appreciated and how we would like to see it differently, than by just making sarcastic remarks and bashing our game designers. So once again: It has never been about whether feedback is positive or negative, because both are appreciated, as long as it's delivered in a polite and constructive way :)

About the suggestion to give feedback on proposed ideas: This would indeed be an ideal situation, but often not realistic for us for a lot of ideas are considered, being put on the shelf and may be implemented (or partly used) in later game changes/features but it is by far not always clear what exactly will be done with the idea at the moment it's handed in. It can sometimes even take years before it's the right time to implement or use an already proposed idea. When an idea is really rejected however, we will let you know in the corresponding thread but as long as you don't hear from us in there, you can still consider the idea/suggestion to be under consideration.
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Then why is it my friend...when we have constantly asked that this game concentrate on being solely a city building game and not implement battles or battle units have we constantly been ignored for over a year or more...and are still being ignored?
I agree that saying things like "the devs are morons" etc is not only disrespectful but downright rude and unnecessary...as if it wasn't for them we wouldn't be here at all to be complaining.
However we feel that we are being ignored when every update goes against everything we didn't want to happen to Elvenar...and sometimes our comments reflect that in frustration.
I know you Marindor, from past experience, to be a very good and fair help to this forum so this isn't anyway personal...
We just want to be heard and make Elvenar the fantastic City Building Game it set out to be.
No one here could ever complain about the brilliant art work and design of the game...that's what attracted us here in the first place. Also the absence of warfare and battles made this the place we wanted to be. Since then...despite all the promises to remain that way...it has changed so much it is no longer recognisable as the game we joined up to play. All the new updates are about battles, battle units, tournaments etc. We have to open tech tree research at the cost of huge amounts of knowledge points for squad sized upgrades, even more new battle units, and none of them are wanted by us or able to dismiss...as they have become necessary for us to open them to move on. The costs of new expansions and the lack of them without spending a fortune has become greedy...as has the cost of most things lately...and I think you would have to agree with that. I have always been ok with spending diamonds on building things that I liked the look of because the city building aspect of the game appealed to me...but it's gone beyond that now...and I'm losing interest by the day.
When will the devs take a look at the long term lovers of Elvenar and see that we want it to be as it was...a different kinda game with no interest in following the trend of fighting and battles to succeed and evolve. A place where friends could chill and be happy...and by that token...spend a lot of diamonds to continue to play a game that was unique and made us look forward to continuing to play here..
 
Marindor

Marindor

Well-Known Member
@ophion : Yes, this feedback has also been forwarded and it is true that lately a lot of the updates were for a big part about the battle system/tournaments. This is of course also a relatively big part of our game, especially for the more active players and something that wasn't working the way we wanted it (and would even become a problem in later chapters), as explained back then. However, by far most of the work on that aspect of the game has now been done, so we focus on other things again although it is also true that each Guest Race will still come with their own battle units and new squad size upgrades. This will be inevitable since that's how this game is set up to be.

Although it might seem that "everything" was about battles, it was not exactly like that of course since we were also very busy on preparing brand new events (from which we have already seen a few, but there will be more to come), new Guest Races, other big new things that will come shortly (but we can't spoil anything about that yet :p) but a lot of this work has been done in the last few months behind the screens. The battle updates/AI tweaking etc was already visible on the surface of course so I understand that it seems as if that was the only thing our development team was working on.

Elvenar has a lot of different aspects and the battles and tournaments are just one of these things. As said: in the upcoming time we expect to be able to put more (visible) emphasis on other game aspects again as well, although the AI is subject to still get some tweaking based on the feedback we're currently getting from you :)
 
Dhurrin

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
Marindor said:
Hi guys,

Just wanted to emphasize once more (though I feel like it's for the umphteenth time :p) that all feedback is welcome and valuable, both positive and negative. We have received a lot of negative feedback and have never had any problems with that. What is important though, is whether or not it is really constructive feedback, or just ranting without contributing.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm sure you get tired after saying this for the umphteenth time.
And just as well for the umphteenth time: the problem of ranting is caused by Inno itself by just not reacting at all in at least 95% of the feedback given and the complete lack of any kind of explanation. This makes the players feel less than appreciated.

Marindor said:
About the suggestion to give feedback on proposed ideas: This would indeed be an ideal situation, but often not realistic for us for a lot of ideas are considered, being put on the shelf and may be implemented (or partly used) in later game changes/features but it is by far not always clear what exactly will be done with the idea at the moment it's handed in. It can sometimes even take years before it's the right time to implement or use an already proposed idea. When an idea is really rejected however, we will let you know in the corresponding thread but as long as you don't hear from us in there, you can still consider the idea/suggestion to be under consideration.
Click to expand...

This is one point I completely disagree with.
First of all, there is a whole list of suggestions that are very easy to implement, some of which have been around for months, some should take less than a day, even just a few hours to fix, but they keep being ignored.
Second...well...let me repeat myself here...

Dhurrin said:
However, @Hugs does have a point in that much of the positive/constructive feedback is filed as 'sent on to the dev team' and then is never heard of again. Just SOME bits of regular info on that feedback would be appreciated. Even if it was something like:
'planned to be discussed in july 2017 for later implementation' or
'planned to be implemented in autumn 2017' (or spring 2018 for all I care) or
'planned to be refined, betaplayers will be sent a questionair for more input' or even
'rejected for now for lack of time/low priority/not fitting in the longterm strategy/whatever reason but will be looked at again at a later date' or just
'rejected because off...'
Click to expand...

This is NOT asking about details. And this kind of information really is NOT going to give any kind of competition any important information.
What it WILL do is showing the players that there is at least something being done with the feedback. They may not like the wait, but at least it makes things clear.
This kind of general feedback has been asked for over and over and even that is apparently too much to ask. Not to mention it's often either ignored or swept aside with a remark like: yes, but its secret... or yes, but the competition...
You, as Innogames would do much better worrying less about that and more about your (paying) customers and their wishes.
 
Marindor

Marindor

Well-Known Member
@Dhurrin : As I said, this for us will not be realistic so I'm not going to make such promises. Elvenar is a big game with hundreds of thousands of players world wide and a lot of different game markets. It's not possible for us to give feedback on each idea on each market and make promises as to when exactly something will be discussed within our game team etcetera. When ideas are forwarded, they are collected internally and when they're not in line with our vision for the game, they will be rejected. In such cases, we will notify you about that in the corresponding threads. As long as they're not rejected, they're still in our "collection box" and when our game team starts to work on that game element, it will be reviewed again and may or may not be used in the proposed form. Sometimes ideas are implemented exactly as proposed, sometimes different aspects of different similar ideas are combined to get a final outcome. The fact that something is easy to implement, will not automatically mean that therefore it will be implemented within several weeks. We have our own road map for the game and when we're working on a certain aspect, the idea will be merged in there at that time. We can't let all the ideas that popup all the time interfere with our schedule, it just doesn't work like that. You might disagree on that, but this is a big game and from our different language markets tens of ideas per week can come in so we have to process them in a way that is workable for us without harming our schedule/road map.
 

DeletedUser1657

Guest
@ophion
Part of the issue is there are people who ask for these things as well. It is not uncommon for different users to request opposing ideas.
What updates or type of updates do you consider "city building" that you would like to see? I have heard a few people say this and I can't figure out what they call city building. For me all updates to the game are part of improving the game and if I ignore the combat ones I personally would define the rest as "city building" simply as it is not combat, for example:
  • Tournaments now fellowship based - something that was player requested
  • Events
  • New eras/wonders
  • Wholesaler update (whether you like it or not it is not a combat update)
While I completely agree communication could be better I do not agree we have being ignored. I assume you are referencing being ignored in certain areas as opposed to in its entirety? One of the things I love about the beta forum is it is one of the best places for me to see we are definitely not ignored. For example:
  • Active responses from community Manager. To me @Marindor does the best job of the 3 forums I lurk. Would love it if this was more consistent in other places, but there are always challeneges to achieve this.
  • Active Ideas section
  • Implementation of ideas/feedback suggested from user base (some examples below, regardless of whether we like the change/update these are recent examples I know of that relate to user communication going to the devs and actions occurring)
    • Tournament fellowships
    • UI for combat update
    • Wholesaler update
I have always understood the tech tree is what is is. While we don't always want to spend KP on certain parts (combat or non-boosted goods) these are aspects of the game and there is a simplicity in the programming of it. We are also left with the option of to build or not build the related buildings/units. The goods news is should we ever change our minds it is a simple matter of place a building and "off we go". The ability to easily change strategy is not something I think many people appreciate but I am certain would be complaints about if it did not exist. Or worse yet if you had to choose a fixed path at the start like race imagine how many more abandoned towns there would be.

While I addressed the start toward Orphon these are more general comments drawing on other comments that have been said by more than one person. We are all passionate about the game otherwise I don't think any of us would bother to post as much as we do. :rolleyes::D;)
 

DeletedUser1548

Guest
Mykan said:
Active responses from community Manager. To me @Marindor does the best job of the 3 forums I lurk.
Click to expand...
True.

ophion said:
No one here could ever complain about the brilliant art work and design of the game...that's what attracted us here in the first place. Also the absence of warfare and battles made this the place we wanted to be. Since then...despite all the promises to remain that way...it has changed so much it is no longer recognisable as the game we joined up to play. All the new updates are about battles, battle units, tournaments etc.
Click to expand...
This.
@Marindor , I know other things are going on but in my perception Elvenar moved from a relaxing, nice looking city builder to a tiring fighting game. Yes, tiring. Fighting system, especially in Tournaments area is made to make us tired. Just as rolling declinable quests over and over (I do not do that but lots of players do).
I didn't come here to be stressed or challenged too much. I want to relax. Elvenar is played mostly by adults who - I believe - have enough stress in their lives. They want to chill a bit... You're putting lots of effort to make this game 'more challenging' but, sorry, you fail. Challenges you provide are like poking your players with a stick. You make them tired and angry, not motivated.
Players repeat over and over they do not want to fight, they want to build nice cities and what you provide is completely opposite (at least in their perception).
I built all three military building but while I fight (on auto) I can't stand these additional clicks between army tabs, so I use only my basic Elven units. Clicking: "conflict - 5x unit - fight - repeat" is killing me enough and I finish only few provinces during the Tournaments. I can't image people who finish more of them and play manually. o_O
 

DeletedUser1548

Guest
galoyal said:
I can't imagine peoples enjoying repeatedly clicking on the auto fight button ;)
Click to expand...
Me too. I don't know any person who does. We all do it to 'gain something' not to enjoy.
Unfortunately it is also true in case of many people who fight manually.
 

DeletedUser736

Guest
ag123 said:
We all do it to 'gain something' not to enjoy.
Click to expand...
Which tends to demonstrate what I already mentioned. The outrage about the whole combat issue is, at it's core, outrage because peoples do not get rewards as easier. There is this weird compulsiveness that peoples have to do stuff they don't enjoy for "rewards"

Example, outside fighting. Does anyone enjoy visiting neighrbourg or fellowship members to click on some building in their cities? Myself, I find that boring to tears, so I rarely do it, even for my fellowship. Which is a rule I have whitin my FS. No complaining allowed about peoples who don't visit.

Why not just play the parts of the game you enjoy, and forget about the parts you dislike? Before they released the dwarves back then, with the first 3rd unit upgrades, I've been MONTHS without fighting a single battle. It was still very playable. And it is still.
 

DeletedUser1548

Guest
@galoyal , design is heavily flawed and does not fit into city builder game I started playing. It doesn't really matter whether I am 'greedy' or not. Sure, I can leave Elvenar and play something else but I want to believe there is still hope. If I lose my faith, I will leave. Simple as that. :)
 

DeletedUser736

Guest
ag123 said:
@galoyal , design is heavily flawed and does not fit into city builder game I started playing. It doesn't really matter whether I am 'greedy' or not. Sure, I can leave Elvenar and play something else but I want to believe there is still hope. If I lose my faith, I will leave. Simple as that. :)
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First of all, i'd like to apologize if you took my comment as saying you were, or any other player for that matter "greedy". I'm the first one when it comes to greedy if you look at the # of province I have scouted so far :D

If someone want to play alot of Elvenar, and spend lots of time on the game, and grab the biggest reward, fine! What I don't understand is peoples who slog trough tasks they dislike, task which can often be ignored and the game still be enjoyed.

And we will always disagree on the fighting in this game :D I like it and I do not consider it heavily flawed.
 

DeletedUser1548

Guest
@galoyal , I was a fighter but tournaments convinced me to stop. :) It's too much, too monotonny, too time consuming. While we had fights in provinces it was fine for me. It was an addon. Now it's more and more important and IMO - flawed.
We have so called city builder and what can we do together in FS? Fight nothing else. It's too much.

galoyal said:
And we will always disagree on the fighting in this game :D I like it and I do not consider it heavily flawed.
Click to expand...
I respect that but did you come here to fight? Or to build a city in a first place?
You know... I want RPG game I buy that type of game... I may like logic puzzle in RPG game but I don't want to play puzzles over and over and just 'have' customised character. I want to explore the world and finish quests! And actually play the game, not ignore it's most time consuming feature.
Currently Elvenar makes me feel like I 'have' my city and all I 'do' is fighting.
I hope I made myself more clear now. :)
 

DeletedUser1657

Guest

DeletedUser118

Guest
Mykan said:
To be fair from a fellowship point of view there never was much we could do anyway:
  • Visits
  • Trade
  • Chat
  • Tournaments (new)
Not a long list or big on city building. Would be amazing if there was some kind of fellowship building or something we could work on together or contribute goods towards (hmmmm...maybe I should go peak in the ideas section)
Click to expand...

You mean something like the statue of a king or goddess we could provide something to so everyone gets something back. A cultural surplus would be nice. Like the bigger the statue gets, the more the cultural suprlus increases. :)
 

DeletedUser736

Guest
ag123 said:
I respect that but did you come here to fight? Or to build a city in a first place?
Click to expand...
I enjoy both aspect of the game. I used to play Forge of Empire (from Inno too) but for reason I won't bother to rant on here, I grew to dislike the fighting. Since I was still active in Forge, when the Beta for Elvenar came, I tried it, and I found that I could build a city AND have better fight, so I totally gave up of Forge, and switched to Elvenar.

So, it so happens that it's the fight that actually drew me to Elvenar in the first place.
 

DeletedUser1247

Guest
what has happened to tournament ? i cant even win on most lvl 3 sectors now :( its like lvl 3 is how lvl 5 used to be. unit types in the sector appear to be the same for relic type but there squad size has become huge, i lose sending units that have bonus against defenders thats just insane at lvl 3.... i watched an auto battle i was amazed at how retarded my 3 squads of treants were, they chased 1 archer yes 1 not a full squad just 1 archer around a piece of terrain going in circles while the archer took pot shots they should have separated and trapped the archer but no the circle continued lol i had to intervene or i would have lost the fight and btw i know treants not suited for archers but i sent 5 sqds of treants because was only 1 squad arch and rest steinling/morters
 

DeletedUser1933

Guest
Miciah said:
what has happened to tournament ? i cant even win on most lvl 3 sectors now :( its like lvl 3 is how lvl 5 used to be. unit types in the sector appear to be the same for relic type but there squad size has become huge, i lose sending units that have bonus against defenders thats just insane at lvl 3.... i watched an auto battle i was amazed at how retarded my 3 squads of treants were, they chased 1 archer yes 1 not a full squad just 1 archer around a piece of terrain going in circles while the archer took pot shots they should have separated and trapped the archer but no the circle continued lol i had to intervene or i would have lost the fight and btw i know treants not suited for archers but i sent 5 sqds of treants because was only 1 squad arch and rest steinling/morters
Click to expand...

This has been happening allot lately on many tournaments where the game Developers play with it's settings. In one tournament you will win great then in another you will lose and it is a constant struggle to find an even balance in fighting. I gave up on the tournaments they are just plain a losing proposition for me. Fighting on the map to get more expansions is also finished for me because I lose all the time and catering is much to expensive. Inno is messing with the Balance of our game far too often and making it harder and harder to sell more diamonds.
 
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