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Elvenar Classic

McLowther

Active Member
We seen it in other games (and other games from Innogames): Sometimes an older version of the game is relaunched for players preferring the original version of the game to a later, recent version.

I came here to play a fantasy city building game. I discovered the game, I liked its unique concept, I liked it because it was not just another battle game.

The past months have seen the Elvenar Fantasy City Building Game changed into Elvenar Tournaments.

Players were fed a lot of hogwash about the need to change the battle system because players where acquiring provinces too fast. Truth is, the battle system was changed to change the game concept and launch "Elvenar Tournaments".

New units are introduced nearly every second week, training grounds and mercenary camp are introduced, the battle balancing redesigned, those things were done with only one thing in mind: Elvenar Tournaments.
(There would have been an easy way to change the number a provinces a player can complete: put it in the research tree!)

The game now is all about the tournaments. Many players have left because they are unhappy with the changes. Many more will leave.

I will leave. However not without making at least one attempt to save the original game. Because I enjoyed it, because it had a novel game concept, because it was unique.

I hereby appeal to Innogames to launch a classic version of the game, a version of the game from about January 2016.

A game with two changes.

  1. Do away with squad size in the research tree. And replace it by, lets call it diplomacy. Diplomacy determines how many provinces a player can complete. An easy solution to the problem of players gaining too many provinces too fast.
    As we've seen in tournaments, squad size can be determined by the encounter thus it has become superfluous. (Or do away with any squad size restrictions, let players attack with all their forces if they wish .. )

  2. To make the game more interesting and dynamic, give players a choice with each new guest race.
    Either keep your existing present architecture and merely improve the buildings
    or
    adopt the architecture of the new guest race.

    This will greatly improve the appeal of the game. We will see many different city designs, with lots of variety in the buildings and not force every player to trudge through the same building phases: build dwarven buildings, fairy buildings, orc buildings ..etc.
    Instead we will find some elven and human cities with tier 8 elven or human buildings.

Innogames please consider this request for a classic version of what was once a really great game.
 

Sajtmacska

Ex-Team Member
I have to say I agree with my buddy's opinion.
I came here to build up a nice elf city (with lots of logical challenge about the buildings size and the size of my city), have relationship/diplomacy with other players, and now it turned into a war game.
I hate that I have to have an army, with special army sys, hate to wait 20+ days to have a new site (WTF?!?!?!), and fight for new provinces, tournaments (and if i miss it I'm going to against my people interest)....
It would be much more honest to tell the truth: "we are not able to develop the game as fast as you're growing guys, that's why we introduced these things" or something else...
But forcing us to play something that we didn't want to, it's not fair.
 

ophion

Well-Known Member
Absolutely agree with the above. The whole battle system , including tournaments and all the new units being introduced was never what most of us wanted here in Elvenar and it's spoiling what was once a unique game. With all the negative feedback about introducing so much warfare to a city building game should make you consider the above proposal and give us back the game we originally joined up to play.
 

lika1961

Well-Known Member
Good idea. I can't say strongly enough how much I don't want to fight or be involved in endless military units and buildings.

There needs to be a solution for players who have advanced "too far". We can't just wait indefinitely for the research to catch up to us. Some of us are 30 or 40 provinces ahead of what the devs consider acceptable. We can't undo exploration, so something needs to be done to enable us to deal with this issue.

I don't know what the solution is, but I am sure that many players will have interesting suggestions as they always do.

The stubborn insistence on "balancing" things by changing the battle system is counter-productive for those who don't want to fight and the constant argument going on about this is taking attention away from anything positive that might happen. The latest chapter is an example of that.
 

McLowther

Active Member
Good idea. I can't say strongly enough how much I don't want to fight or be involved in endless military units and buildings.

There needs to be a solution for players who have advanced "too far". We can't just wait indefinitely for the research to catch up to us. Some of us are 30 or 40 provinces ahead of what the devs consider acceptable. We can't undo exploration, so something needs to be done to enable us to deal with this issue.

I don't know what the solution is, but I am sure that many players will have interesting suggestions as they always do.

The stubborn insistence on "balancing" things by changing the battle system is counter-productive for those who don't want to fight and the constant argument going on about this is taking attention away from anything positive that might happen. The latest chapter is an example of that.
Players have been trying to discourage further development of the military and fighting aspects of this game for a long time. it is safe to say that for over a year, ever since barracks were made mandatory, players have spoken out against the need to build troops. Yet devs and Innogames stubbornly ignored us city builders and continued developing the military element, introducing new buildings and new units.

This goes to show that Innogames devs have their own agendy, their own vision where this game is to be headed: a game of tournaments.

I don't believe that this can be changed, Elvenar Tournaments is here to stay. The changes we've seen made will not be reverted.

My only hope is that perhaps we can convince Innogames to create a fork. An elvenar classic server, that will follow the original idea, building a fantasy city.
 

ChristobaldusMagnus

Well-Known Member
Don't you see the tournament system is a way to allow you getting most things you could get from exploration/conquest (relics, PCs, rune fragments, ...), except new expansions? To provide you with a rewarding activity that will not allow your city to grow too fast, making it almost impossibly long to load on some systems? That it is a way to push you to develop some other aspects of the game, like Ancient Wonders, rather than just fill the research tree/expand territory/grow your city?

Tournaments do, no more than province conquest, really have to be achieved through combat, at least not only: in both cases you can choose to pay a price in goods and other resources instead ;).

There were serious balancing issues in their new combat system, tough...
They are apparently, very slowly, finally acknowledging some of these issues and trying to fix them (like the too often impossible battles for people not having level 3 troops yet, or the combat AI, which they rapidly acknowledged as partly overwhelmed by the new system, but could not improve rapidly, if it is even possible...). These attempts are rather good news :).
There is another thing which was in my opinion very wrongly handled in the combat system revision: though the size of tournament squads is not directly linked to those of province battle squads and do not follow the new exponential progression curve, they modified the tournaments balancing, making them more difficult/costly (depending on whether you fight or cater) than before. Instead, they should rather have maintained or even lowered a bit the difficulty level, to incite people play the tournaments.

There is about zero chance :( that they agree to maintain two different versions of the game, that would simply be too complex, it is already very complex to maintain one stable version ;)!

Rather than asking for such impossible "going back" ideal solution, I would much rather ask them to fix their obvious errors ;).
 

McLowther

Active Member
Don't you see the tournament system is a way to allow you getting most things you could get from exploration/conquest (relics, PCs, rune fragments, ...), except new expansions? To provide you with a rewarding activity that will not allow your city to grow too fast, making it almost impossibly long to load on some systems? That it is a way to push you to develop some other aspects of the game, like Ancient Wonders, rather than just fill the research tree/expand territory/grow your city?
None of these things are important. Ancient Wonders? Most are useless .. a waste of building space!
The focus as far as I'm concerned should be on building interesting cities and not trying to find space for all the other "junk" (buildings you win through the events). Tournaments are by no means a rewarding activity, but a waste of time and resources.

There is about zero chance :( that they agree to maintain two different versions of the game, that would simply be too complex, it is already very complex to maintain one stable version ;)!
Innogames does it for their other games. So why not here? If there is a demand for a classic version and they can make money why would they not maintain two versions? In the end they want to earn cash. And if players leave because they no longer care for the game Innogames is loosing (potentially paying) customers. So instead of just saying we don't care about the players that leave, surely they would attempt to keep unhappy customers by changing things?

Rather than asking for such impossible "going back" ideal solution, I would much rather ask them to fix their obvious errors ;).
Fixing obvious errors in the present version is not enough. A vital aspect of the game needs to be fixed: re-focus on city building, make that part more interesting add different options. Get away from the military side.
 

ChristobaldusMagnus

Well-Known Member
None of these things are important. Ancient Wonders? Most are useless .. a waste of building space!
Obviously, with such an open mind, I better understand some of your ideas ;)...
Sorry, but I strongly disagree and I am quite sure I am not the only one :), considering how many players choose to develop these!
A much more reasonable assessment would be to say that some really are useless (obvious example: the Tome of Secrets), some have bonuses that might fit you or not (Needeles of the Tempest, Martial Monastery, ...), some clearly have interesting bonuses (Crystal Lighthouse, Mountain Halls, ...), some might even have too generous bonuses (Blooming Trader Guild, which use might have encouraged overuse of the Wholesaler, then its butchering).

The focus as far as I'm concerned should be on building interesting cities and not trying to find space for all the other "junk" (buildings you win through the events).
Maybe not everyone has the same idea you have of what is an interesting city?
I quite like the event buildings, which usually are quite above usual cultural or mixed buildings performance, so that they often remain interesting for at least 2 or 3 chapters. Furthermore, they allow you to vary your city landscape and avoid filling up your city space with rows of identical buildings (which is precisely my idea of a boring city layout ;)). So rather gems than junk, in my opinion ;).
Same goes for the Ancient Wonders I deem interesting to build.
Obviously, event buildings would be even better if there was a way to upgrade them when entering a new research chapter ;).

Innogames does it for their other games. So why not here?
Really? Which ones (I have never been really attracted to their other games)?

If there is a demand for a classic version and they can make money why would they not maintain two versions?
Even though, I would not be so sure it is really advisable, but, as it is now, I am not even sure the game is actually really making money yet...

Fixing obvious errors in the present version is not enough. A vital aspect of the game needs to be fixed: re-focus on city building, make that part more interesting add different options. Get away from the military side.
It would, at least, be a good start ;).
What would you like to be fixed precisely regarding the city building part? What is so much "broken"?
Could you explain me why you feel so much irritated by a part of the game which is still entirely optional: military combat (versus environment)?
As far as I can tell, territorial conquest, by military or trading means, was always part of the plan, as a way to obtain new space for your city, was it not?
 

Caanna

Well-Known Member
It's not so much optional anymore, because as they're pushing Ancient Wonders (I disagree, some Wonders provide tangible benefits to my city) to supplement other buildings and make space in cities more manageable, they're making the tournaments more and more combat centric. This whole update with Fellowship tournaments suddenly motivates every single person in a fellowship to aggressively push to complete tournament provinces every week. That's so much more in teh way of goods than the game is balanced around, when tournaments initially came out you could simply save up goods for your boosted weeks, but now you're encouraged to participate every week to help your friends get shards for Wonders. The punitive costs on negotiating, combined with the fact that now everyone sort of has to participate, forces people to choose between fight or not be able to participate.

There's also the fact that they're massively increasing the size of required buildings, while not massively increasing the amount of new space we're able to obtain. They say that they do this for the sake of puzzles, but... I confess, I don't really care about puzzles (okay, I love jigsaw puzzles, but this isn't a jigsaw puzzle). I wasn't drawn to Elvenar because it was advertised as a puzzle game. I was drawn to it because it advertised itself as a city builder game, where I could build a pretty city. I understand perfectly well that I'll never have as high a score as people who spend money on premium buildings, but the game was advertised as something which I could successfully play and complete, to my definition of completeness, which basically consists of seeing my city slowly improve over time and knowing that having all my buildings at maximum upgrade level is a possibility some day. Not something which I would never be able to attain because Inno has decided that it's a puzzle game instead of a city builder. Because Inno's decided they want me to delete all the residences I was so proud that I took the time and effort to build. Upgrading the buildings in my city is a sign of progress to me. Deleting them sucks, because it feels like all that time I invested on them, proud of the fact that I got all my buildings to x tier at last, is wasted, because there isn't space to upgrade them all, and to me, that isn't what a city builder is about. I also have never been pleased with the fact that even though I love the way crystal manufactories look, placing them in my city is the next thing to impossible because of all the cities I've made in this game, only one had crystal boosts. It's a city builder, but we effectively have no control over what our cities look like because our boosts are locked in when we make our account. If we don't like the way our boosted manufactories look.... oh well, the puzzle factor outweighs the city building factor. Inno does not want to allow us to change our boosts because we could theoretically use that to make the puzzles easier.

Maybe Inno should just.... design a new tetris, and use all their ideas about puzzles for that, and go back to making Elvenar a city builder.
 
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Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
Same here.
They keep trying to fix things that arent broken. But after the fix they definitely are.

Over the last 6 months there has been almost nothing added in the way of building a city, its been about battles only.
One might argue that the guestraces are about building a city, but I think its a very roundabout way of doing so and its getting to be more and more about having to allocate a ridiculous amount of the scarce space to the special goods of the guestrace in order to build your city. And then the influence of the guestraces is so huge there is hardly a difference between the cities anymore.

As for being too far out: I've already stated that was the most crappy argument they ever made. And that is because there IS NO TOO FAR OUT technically speaking. The only real limits are the edges of the worldmap.
The reason I say this is because it still is possible to go out as far as you want, because every requirement can be solved with diamonds. So if one really is set on spreading out further, the game has left that possibility open, showing that
A - there is no technological block
B - it really is all about the money.

Especially point B is made very obvious by all the other changes in the prices.

(btw, some of the people here might like a post https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/elvenar-now-what.7255/page-2#post-45819 on more issues like this)
 

benroq

Well-Known Member
I find that to elvenar has to keep highly-rated sound city builder.
I came on this gameto having left FOE because I did not amuse me any more above (the day of the exit of a new era I finished the tech tree and I had totally reconstructed my new city with the new buildings, I thus had nothing more to make other than the fights).
On elvenar I am to try to position all the time how my buildings for all to put them, actually we can compare that with a puzzle) but I prefer that rather than to have a city which extends constantly without needing to reflect or to put my buildings.

The fights are not compulsory in elvenar, you can very well develop your city only by negotiating.
I am more than 355 conquered provinces and I have to negotiate everything since more than 150 provinces. I begin only again to be able to fight some fights from time to time.
It is enough to put the armory only one who supplies you enough of orc to negotiate and upgrader your workshop.
Actually if we do not fight the tournaments are little profitable because costs of the negotiation is very too high.

A well moved forward player can easily negociate 3 provinces for the level 5 every week if he manages well his production and anyway not to make the tournaments not you hampers not to develop your city, it delays a little but anyway we shall be to be block more and more while waiting for the arrival of a new era.

To end I find that the city buider highly-rated is always there on this game thanks to the new invited races and upon the arrival of the mana which oblige us to rethink our city organization.
The fights are only to occupy the big impatient players (who I made left:D).
I do not fully agree with all the evolutions of the game) for one year but what pleased me at the beginning in this gameis always present.
 

McLowther

Active Member
Obviously, with such an open mind, I better understand some of your ideas ;)...
Sorry, but I strongly disagree and I am quite sure I am not the only one :), considering how many players choose to develop these!
Maybe not everyone has the same idea you have of what is an interesting city?
I quite like the event buildings, which usually are quite above usual cultural or mixed buildings performance, so that they often remain interesting for at least 2 or 3 chapters. Furthermore, they allow you to vary your city landscape and avoid filling up your city space with rows of identical buildings (which is precisely my idea of a boring city layout ;)). So rather gems than junk, in my opinion ;).
Same goes for the Ancient Wonders I deem interesting to build.
There you go .. spot the difference .. I realise there are many players who enjoy the tournaments, who love the battles, participate in events, build ancient wonders.

Nowhere have I asked for the military options, ancient wonders, events to be removed. For tournaments to be stopped.
I realise there are many players like you, who like them and do not want things changed. Great. I have no problem with that or with anyone liking these things. On the other hand your post suggests you have problem with players who dislike them.

However just as I know many players who enjoy tournaments and the events and the battles .. I also know many player who like myself dislike them. Player who like the unique concept of a fantasy city building game.

And my appeal is for Innogames devs to consider those players. Not by changing anything in the present game, Elvenar Tournaments, which many players like and enjoy, but by launching a classic version of the game.

You see, you don't loose anything. No changes to the game you enjoy, but a number of players that will leave because they don't like the recent developments (or have already left) will be able to play a game they enjoy.

So you think my appeal is unreasonable, that there is no way Innogames will launch a classic server? Maybe, but what is that to you? I'm making an attempt to have a fantasy city building game, which I (and many players) find superior to the present version of the game. Blame me for trying, sure, blame me for attempting to find a solution, feel free!

What would you like to be fixed precisely regarding the city building part? What is so much "broken"?
I want more development in the city building part. More dynamics, more choices. As I detailed in my original post, I'd like a choice with every new guest race: Use the new technologies to improve my present architecture or switch to the new guest race. Then we'll have variety. Different cities with different buildings.

Could you explain me why you feel so much irritated by a part of the game which is still entirely optional: military combat (versus environment)?
I will agree to that statement as soon as building barracks has become optional, as soon as I can tear down my barracks. As long as I am forced to have barracks, the military aspects cannot be considered optional.
 

lika1961

Well-Known Member
If you put a group of people together with various options available to them it is inevitable that they will disagree on the combination of options that appeal to them. Much as a lively discussion is a very good thing, in this case I feel it is taking focus away from what is a very relevant discussion in this game.

It cannot be denied that the military element has become overshadowing in recent updates and there is a group of people who would very much like this not to be the case. Not surprising as the original game they signed up for focussed on the city building element.

You further have a group of long-time players who, over time, feel like they have been marginalised and punished by some of the changes. They have become a problem to Inno and instead of dealing with the issue, it is being ignored and referred to in vague terms when someone really insists on getting an answer. They exist and their point is relevant. If the game develops the way it is doing now, newer players will eventually land in the same situation.

People are tired of all this nonsense and you only have to read the live server forums to see that players are leaving. In my own fellowships I have a player ranked in the top 100 who has made it clear that the game has become boring and repetitive with very little scope for growth if you are not enthralled by the battle system. They will probably leave within a short time and that is a big deal.

Newer players in a fellowship look at a senior player leaving and suddenly find themselves in a situation where they realise that some of the reasons they are seeing for this person going are things that they don't like either. When your city is young, you tend to not give so many opinions as you either feel you don't understand all the reasoning behind it or you think "that will not happen to me". It is easier for a new player to leave as they don't have the investment that the long-term players have. And I don't mean diamonds.

People in my fellowships care less and less about the game and the vibe has become "it doesn't matter what we say or want, Inno is going to do what it wants". That is a very sad situation and it is not a huge leap from there to quitting. Presumably this is something Inno wants to avoid.

McLowther's efforts in trying to point out to Inno that there should be an alternative for players who would otherwise just leave is a very good thing. Turning it into a discussion of personal likes and dislikes, although interesting, brings us no closer to making the devs aware that an alternative is needed.

Come on devs, have a survey and see what players want. It is easy to ignore the small percentage of players that visit the forums, but I don't think you should ignore the ones who don't much longer.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
i dont know what game you are playing but last 6 months were best in term of building aspect, you had 2,5 chapters and 5 events filled with plenty of buildings to build
in january 2016 you had 1 guest race after a "year" of waiting, most people was on the end already, there where only 2 wonders, no events
so saying that you want this version of the game makes no sense to me

i dont know how many years it will take for some people to realize that without battle redesign there would not be any new guest race and game would just end right there

also everbody who want from this game to be city builder and then claim they have no space in city should make up their mind, you either have both of this aspects or none of them
 

McLowther

Active Member
If you put a group of people together with various options available to them it is inevitable that they will disagree on the combination of options that appeal to them. Much as a lively discussion is a very good thing, in this case I feel it is taking focus away from what is a very relevant discussion in this game.

It cannot be denied that the military element has become overshadowing in recent updates and there is a group of people who would very much like this not to be the case. Not surprising as the original game they signed up for focussed on the city building element.

...
Thank you lika1961, for expressing my concerns in your own words and expressing them clearer that I have been able to do.

i dont know what game you are playing but last 6 months were best in term of building aspect, you had 2,5 chapters and 5 events filled with plenty of buildings to build
in january 2016 you had 1 guest race after a "year" of waiting, most people was on the end already, there where only 2 wonders, no events
so saying that you want this version of the game makes no sense to me

i dont know how many years it will take for some people to realize that without battle redesign there would not be any new guest race and game would just end right there

also everbody who want from this game to be city builder and then claim they have no space in city should make up their mind, you either have both of this aspects or none of them
None of those are valid points. You are basing them on assumptions that are not (necessarily) true.

We've had new buildings to build, yes, but everyone one has been forced to go through the same stages, building the same buildings. My vision is of offering choices, having different city styles. Potentially counting the new guest race dragons, we could be seeing 7 different architectures when moving into age 10. And who says new buildings have to take up more space? Why the need for buildings to just increase in size? Why not just improve them? Make them better more efficient? The challenge could be to improve your manufactories and workshops to such and extend that you only need one or two and the rest of the city space can be used for parks and lakes? So instead of having crowded overflowing cities, players can have beautiful cities?

Where the battle redesign is concerned, that was made with tournaments in mind. It had nothing to do with players gaining provinces too fast. There would have been many easier ways to stop players gaining too many provinces.
 

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
I find that to elvenar has to keep highly-rated sound city builder.
I came on this gameto having left FOE because I did not amuse me any more above (the day of the exit of a new era I finished the tech tree and I had totally reconstructed my new city with the new buildings, I thus had nothing more to make other than the fights).
On elvenar I am to try to position all the time how my buildings for all to put them, actually we can compare that with a puzzle) but I prefer that rather than to have a city which extends constantly without needing to reflect or to put my buildings.

The fights are not compulsory in elvenar, you can very well develop your city only by negotiating.
I am more than 355 conquered provinces and I have to negotiate everything since more than 150 provinces. I begin only again to be able to fight some fights from time to time.
It is enough to put the armory only one who supplies you enough of orc to negotiate and upgrader your workshop.
Actually if we do not fight the tournaments are little profitable because costs of the negotiation is very too high.

A well moved forward player can easily negociate 3 provinces for the level 5 every week if he manages well his production and anyway not to make the tournaments not you hampers not to develop your city, it delays a little but anyway we shall be to be block more and more while waiting for the arrival of a new era.

To end I find that the city buider highly-rated is always there on this game thanks to the new invited races and upon the arrival of the mana which oblige us to rethink our city organization.
The fights are only to occupy the big impatient players (who I made left:D).
I do not fully agree with all the evolutions of the game) for one year but what pleased me at the beginning in this gameis always present.
I have to disagree here.
I have started new cities on different servers just to try this.
Chapter 1, players get 150 squads now, but in ring 2-3 they are mostly useless. I have squads of sworddancers, bowmen and treants for free. Even in ring 2 I constantly come up against squads of mistwalkers. 'Only' 2 squads, but hey, that means they are much larger than mine and they go first. Each hit means the killing of a squad of mine. So even with 5 squads, one only has 3 to move in round 1. 1 left in round 2, none in round 3.
Chapter 2, same thing, except one now faces 3-5 squads. Even with the first 2 squadsize upgrades, fighting gets my troops killed without doing much damage. And it's not as if I can use other troops, because those are not available yet.
Negotiating: try to negotiate your way through chapter 2. Production is still so minimal it's hardly possible. Not to mention that you'll need all of it to upgrade the buildings. Old style, I'd trade some stuff with the wholesaler to get what I need, but that's pretty much out too.

And both fighting and negotiating are fine for players who are in the GZ. But for those of us who were playing longtime that gets different. I'm over 150 provinces beyond the need to open the chest for the new chapter. Fighting is impossible when one faces armies of 4+ size your own. Negotiating is bloody expensive.

Even for those within the GZ zone, 3 provinces/week with negotiating will not stay possible forever. But even if it is, it means 3-4 weeks for one expansion. Kinda stingy.
 

gath of baal

Active Member
Guest race = Game progression and not city building.... Guest races are an easier way of advancing both humans and elves with out having to come up with an original concept to progress each race individually ... The whole two birds with one stone thing... So why even give us a choice of humans or elves to begin with since they both turn out the same anyways

I would think most of us started this game because it is advertised as a fantasy city builder...

This has ceased to be a fantasy city builder game for some time now... There are no updates or has been no updates for the city building aspect for quite some time ... Yes, they have released guest races, but I consider that game progression and not actually city building... You have no real choices over what path your city takes and very limited choices over what you can do to your city... With the exception of the Event buildings in cities, everyone's cities look pretty much the exact same, Since the game emphasis is on trying to cram as much stuff on a limited amount of space as possible, ultimately leads to everything looking the same... Things like no building rotation, no customization, lack of things to city build with, lack of any choices of things to add to your city to truly create original cities only proves that the city building aspect is not really alive...

This game however has turned into a fantasy city manager game.. You manage your resources, supplies, gold, fellowships, trades, troops, upgrades, knowledge research and city space... I like the manager aspect of the game, but still would like to city build eventually ...
 

benroq

Well-Known Member
@ Dhurinn

what I wanted to say it is that the fights are not compulsory to progress in the game. I shall say even that until the era of the dwarfs they slow down the progress of the player. I give some explanation, I have to create a city on the French waiter or I have to play without any fight until the era of the dwarfs (I had not even put the barraks, thus I had no unity of fights) and I have to negotiate all my provinces (I had to free more than 70 provinces in more than what was needed to begin the era of the fairies) and I negotiated on the tournament or I could easily win the first 3 provinces.


I do not criticize a way of playing or an other one, I just say that if we choose to play without fights it is enough to go up to the end of its choice and to remove all which concerns the fights (armory (to keep it one to produce orcs), AW and to leave the barraks with a low level) and to replace the space to leave free (including the cultural buildings which serve nothing more) by manufactory, and you will see that your progress will not be more slowed down than if you fight.

I have of to stop my account on the French server due to the lack of available time but I have to evolve faster in the tree without making fights that on the server béta by fighting a lot.

This is why I allows me to say that the fights are optional on elvenar (even if we are obliged to have an armory, at least as long as we do not possess the heroes ' forge) but I am also aware as many of the improvements of the last months one be for the fights.
 

gath of baal

Active Member
@benroq

Yes fighting is optional, with the only other choice to be negotiating, So what happens when the game mechanic allow you to do neither??? in 2 worlds I can not fight or negotiate provinces for expansions since the developers decided to change the game mechanics... I'm to far ahead to win a fight and I'm not far enough ahead to have orcs to negotiate with... This is a prime example of how changing the game mechanic can screw people over and feel like a punishment to some