Discussion Elvarian Carnival

[Maillie]

I can recall when the "upgrade" quest was always "Upgrade to Level 4 or Higher." Why was that ever changed to Level 16? It makes no sense for the smaller cities. With the quest being "Upgrade to Level 4 or Higher" then everyone could continue. That change is important to many, and there are plenty of other ways that we've been slowed down, we really don't need a quest to upgrade to 16 to cause the little cities to come to a halt, while the big cities toss on a few time boosts and ... poof ... Done.

 

[PrimroseSylvia]

I can recall when the "upgrade" quest was always "Upgrade to Level 4 or Higher." Why was that ever changed to Level 16?

There are 2 different quests: first asks for level +4, second asks for level +16 sand they exist since Days of Music in 2018.

There are some players who do not have ANY Map Encounters available for various reasons, most commonly ‘Orc Lock’.

AFAIK orcs are the only one reason, and we all know that overscout is not a good game strategy (if we can call it strategy) for various reasons, it has been said several times (in every forum/facebook group and so on). You can tell me that it provides benefit in some game's area (for example in tournament) but it's a player choise with its pros and cons.

 

[SirSmithy]

There are 2 different quests: first asks for level +4, second asks for level +16 sand they exist since Days of Music in 2018.

AFAIK orcs are the only one reason, and we all know that overscout is not a good game strategy (if we can call it strategy) for various reasons, it has been said several times (in every forum/facebook group and so on). You can tell me that it provides benefit in some game's area (for example in tournament) but it's a player choise with its pros and cons.

Try not to overscout, when events constantly ask for scouting... this is bad reasoning. I’m sorry

 

[PrimroseSylvia]

Try not to overscout, when events constantly ask for scouting... this is bad reasoning. I’m sorry

We all know that events always ask to scout or complete provinces; it's player strategy ensure that this won't negative affect its own game.
I have done every single event since 2017, and I never had this problem. I'm not a genius, I simply do only necessary scouts.

 

[Dony]

Re-introducing this Level 16 build is, for me, a massive step backwards.

For me its a massive step forwards. I would take that quest anyday instead of scout/25 vision vapors/toolboxes. Why? Because we have teleport now, i am sitting on 41 teleports and i will never use them and they are still coming. You can prepare and make 5/10/20/50 of lvl15 buildings and all teleport back to inventory in case of need like this, whenever you have nothing to do in your city (usually its 90% of the time). Ask yourself why you need to stockpile teleport spells and never use them when they are coming every week?

There are some players who do not have ANY Map Encounters available for various reasons, most commonly ‘Orc Lock’.

this was true 3 years ago, not now, game has changed a lot

 

[Lovec Krys]

@PrimroseSylvia Well, these days, without massive overscouting, you have no chance to win the tournament (if you care).

@Dony That's actualy a good idea, I have 37 teleports without any use, so I can use them this way if needed.

 

[PrimroseSylvia]

(if you care)

So, once again, it's a player choice, not a game issue.

 

[Maillie]

There are 2 different quests: first asks for level +4, second asks for level +16 sand they exist since Days of Music in 2018.

I stand corrected. I started way back when and I recall making level 3 marbles to prepare for the events when my city was very small. Probably by the time I got to needing level 16's I was high enough to believe it was changed only because my city was larger.

I am not sure if it makes sense to have ANY quests that can't be done by someone, no matter what their city level is, or whether they have an event-only city that never gets to Orcs and can't scout any further, or simply is too new to be able to put up level 16 buildings. I think upgrades should be capped at 4. This would cause the biggest cities to find space to put these silly things into, and not eliminate the "unusual" cities and the new cities, many of which are paying customers as well.

 

[Deleted User - 66314]

New loading image. This is very hard on my eyes. The picture itself is good, but the distortion is almost worse than a strobe effect. I have had to learn to look away when switching screens as it actually makes me nauseated.

 

[Arthus]

No, there is no mistake. You can't rank chests by simple ratios because chest cost matters as well. Though in this case you're missing even simpler aspect - both chests return some event currency, so adjusted ratios are significantly better. And Red chest gains back much more on a relative basis.

So

Here are a few easily-shareable graphics I've put together to show which chests are best, depending on what you're aiming for. Info is based on the data and analysis posted on ElvenGems. Feel free to share in your fellowships and elsewhere. I hope you find this useful.

Best chests for daily prize: i.imgur.com/eapPgQf.jpg
Best chests for flags: i.imgur.com/WzwfBnu.jpg

So if someone wants to get a lot of flags but also wants to get some dailies like wishing wells in the process or additional currency from chests, it's best to shuffle between golden chest and red chest, choosing golden one if possible?


And once again they punished players who ended chapter 15 - no other way to end quest than building to level 16 (no technology left)
There should be absolutely no technology quests in game, they benefit early game players and there's no thing that benefits end-game players, all other things can be easily got/made in mid-game.

 

[Deleted User - 81190]

So if someone wants to get a lot of flags but also wants to get some dailies like wishing wells in the process or additional currency from chests, it's best to shuffle between golden chest and red chest, choosing golden one if possible?

That's not specific enough as an optimization target. That's why in my optimal strategy calculator you can specify weights as to how much you value different outcomes relative to each other. You can put 1 and 1 for GP and DP, indicating that you value 1 daily prize and 1 grand prize the same. This will give you one strategy (with Red chest being the best). If you say that you value 1 GP at 10 times more than 1 DP then optimal strategy will be different, with Light Wood (18) chest being the best.

Having said that, unless you really want the max in GP I wouldn't worry about that. GP outcomes have the least dependency on strategy selection; the variance in outcomes is pretty low. I'd just focus on maximizing other things, GPs will take care of themselves.

 

[PrimroseSylvia]

city that never gets to Orcs and can't scout any further

It's a player's choice, so they can't complain about not being able to do events.

is too new to be able to put up level 16 buildings

Indeed there's an alternative to this task, alternative that players in early chapters can complete way faster.

 

[Arthus]

That's not specific enough as an optimization target. That's why in my optimal strategy calculator you can specify weights as to how much you value different outcomes relative to each other. You can put 1 and 1 for GP and DP, indicating that you value 1 daily prize and 1 grand prize the same. This will give you one strategy (with Red chest being the best). If you say that you value 1 GP at 10 times more than 1 DP then optimal strategy will be different, with Light Wood (18) chest being the best.

Having said that, unless you really want the max in GP I wouldn't worry about that. GP outcomes have the least dependency on strategy selection; the variance in outcomes is pretty low. I'd just focus on maximizing other things, GPs will take care of themselves.

To be honest in this event i don't think anyone values these grand prizes too much so i think i would go with wishing wells
Red looks amazing for daily rewards

By the way, does anyone notice that they added daily quests only to lower ammounts of currency per quest?
It's 4759 main questline + daily quests in carnival, 4810 in main questline in winter event

 

[Yogi Dave]

It's a player's choice, so they can't complain about not being able to do events.

We're human or elven. We can always complain. Sometimes it's just complaining and whining. Other times it's in the hopes of something changing for the better. Inno keeps making changes to the events, some good, some not. I'm glad there are changes. Things can't get better without them. Evolution is messy. Complaining may help keep it evolution and not devolution.

So, my complaint isn't about the quests. (Soggy was very good at suggesting changes to them - as are others.) No, mine is about the new daily buildings. Inno produces such lovely and interesting new artwork each event, yet most of them are significantly less powerful than the old ones, well at least in the way I'm interested. It's not that I don't like the old ones, but I'd rather find it worthwhile to get one of the new ones. I have 15 Winter Stars in my city because they are about the best pop/sq. building. I'd love to have some of the new ones, but not at a loss of pop. Both the winter event this event's best new buildings pop/sq. are 367, whereas the winter star is 544. Admittedly, the new ones have significantly better cult/sq. and some of that type building is needed. But, all of them? Perhaps lower pop makes sense for carnival as the new pop/cult buildings are floats and that's more about culture. The winter event had a couple of house buildings that would make sense to have more pop/sq.

So, yes, it is my choice to not get the newer buildings. I just think that in a city building game they would encourage the new buildings to be taken for pop/sq. also.

 

[PrimroseSylvia]

@Yogi Dave , agree.
I was referring to those players who don't wanna grow their city for some reason (tournaments, adventures or whatelse) and doing that they don't go on with the research tree. This is absolutely a choice, but they have to get every consequences, good and bad, and not to whine for some problems they have createded on their own. Hope I'm making myself clear...

 

[Yogi Dave]

Hope I'm making myself clear...

You are. Just wanted to make my point and your comment seemed like a good lead in to it.

EDIT: Hope that didn't sound snarky. I really like your clarification. I had missed that.

who don't wanna grow their city for some reason (tournaments, adventures or whatelse)

I know people who have stopped at a certain chapter because they feel like tourneys will become too hard if they continue or don't like the look of the buildings of the next chapter since they play for the esthetics of the buildings. I know someone who rearranged her city so it formed a face - Snail Palace as the eyes, Adv. Trader for a button nose, etc. It was quite impressive. She has moved on from that phase, but kept it that way for a while.

 

[CrazyWizard]

We're human or elven. We can always complain. Sometimes it's just complaining and whining. Other times it's in the hopes of something changing for the better. Inno keeps making changes to the events, some good, some not. I'm glad there are changes. Things can't get better without them. Evolution is messy. Complaining may help keep it evolution and not devolution.

So, my complaint isn't about the quests. (Soggy was very good at suggesting changes to them - as are others.) No, mine is about the new daily buildings. Inno produces such lovely and interesting new artwork each event, yet most of them are significantly less powerful than the old ones, well at least in the way I'm interested. It's not that I don't like the old ones, but I'd rather find it worthwhile to get one of the new ones. I have 15 Winter Stars in my city because they are about the best pop/sq. building. I'd love to have some of the new ones, but not at a loss of pop. Both the winter event this event's best new buildings pop/sq. are 367, whereas the winter star is 544. Admittedly, the new ones have significantly better cult/sq. and some of that type building is needed. But, all of them? Perhaps lower pop makes sense for carnival as the new pop/cult buildings are floats and that's more about culture. The winter event had a couple of house buildings that would make sense to have more pop/sq.

So, yes, it is my choice to not get the newer buildings. I just think that in a city building game they would encourage the new buildings to be taken for pop/sq. also.

This was actually how the first events were designed, it became clear very early on that this could never be sustained,
You can't make buildings better every event, just like like you dont want a spiral down, you neither want a spiral up.
We already had a rebalance once, so the winter event buildings are like a barrier they should not breach.

It will be a challenge to design buildings that are interesting in more than a pop culture way, and it looks like thats they way they are playing it now for a while.
The also returned some of those "winter buildings" recently to help out the power pop/culture players.

ps. I now run candy cane trees, slightly better pop, and way less ugly

 

[Asween]

after introducing endless quests, there was a lot of negativity on forums - this is hard, this is unfair this is so and so terrible, but smart people was sitting silently, rejoicing and doing mermaid after mermaid, bear after bear. with last two events inno is trying to slow down these people. i'm just curious, are they trying to break down every possibility to evolve event buildings without spending money, or do they intent some small hole to reach this goal to be left? will endless quests after some time mean only possibility endlessly spend money? (of course, everyone has right earn their money best way they can think of, and i'd wish inno to make a lot of money, so we can enjoy this game for years and years ahead). but i think there should be balance between conjuring to buy diamonds and keeping happy wast masses of free gamers. impossibility to reach goal is not fun. if it is hard but possible, if it is even very hard but still possible - this is perfect. this is what keeps fun going on. and may be this not big group of people not spending real money on events themselves can work like a trigger for others to spend?

 

[Arthus]

after introducing endless quests, there was a lot of negativity on forums - this is hard, this is unfair this is so and so terrible, but smart people was sitting silently, rejoicing and doing mermaid after mermaid, bear after bear. with last two events inno is trying to slow down these people. i'm just curious, are they trying to break down every possibility to evolve event buildings without spending money, or do they intent some small hole to reach this goal to be left? will endless quests after some time mean only possibility endlessly spend money? (of course, everyone has right earn their money best way they can think of, and i'd wish inno to make a lot of money, so we can enjoy this game for years and years ahead). but i think there should be balance between conjuring to buy diamonds and keeping happy wast masses of free gamers. impossibility to reach goal is not fun. if it is hard but possible, if it is even very hard but still possible - this is perfect. this is what keeps fun going on. and may be this not big group of people not spending real money on events themselves can work like a trigger for others to spend?

No no, after introducing evolving buildings in multiple ammounts - that destroyed whole game.

I play since April 2018 and it never was so negative before, there's a massive ammount of players who left due to game not being slow-paced and peaceful anymore, everything started when they introduced evo buildings. Before it was nice peaceful game full of friendly people and forum communities.

I wish they would delete all evo buildings and came back to set buildings. It was easier then - you have building or you don't have. No levels, no artifacts, no players getting 200+ artifacts in 1 event like in autumn bears when others got 15-50 only because those people with 200+ artifacts were in Elves chapter and had easier event than those in Elvenar/constructs chapter etc. (easier battles, more place for more workshops and manufactories because of lesser requirements etc)

I only face more and more ragequits from the game around me, both in fellowship and in the world map. I already have 5 active people in 300 cities around me on live but they don't see a problem or never tried to teleport me (option is active).

 

[Yogi Dave]

You can't make buildings better every event, just like like you dont want a spiral down, you neither want a spiral up.

Oh, I do know about the over power of the first winter event buildings and the need to nerf them for the Royal Restoration spells and I'm not hoping for better specs. Just close to the same as them. The new ones all having less than 400 pop/sq. is very disappointing. The Vernar's Rocks buildings were brought back last summer which have even better pop/sq. stats than the Winter Stars. I'm only talking about the couple of pop/cult. building that are added in almost every event. If the best all come from past events, how can you remember what event they came from? Anyone looks at a city and sees Wonky Walter's crazy Fairground knows what event it came from. If they see a Winter Star, which of the 3 events I know of did it come from? I got every new building from the mermaid event for the fun of it and set them up as a beach scene until the seas dried up, the turtle left and the game moved on. I deleted all the daily buildings except a crab hotel and a coast guard.

The game certainly has and is evolving. With the new goods and other aspects in the game, having buildings provide them is certainly a good addition. As more chapters and new aspects for the game are introduced, there will always be a need for them to be incorporated into them.

I now run candy cane trees, slightly better pop, and way less ugly

Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. 556 vs 544 pop/sq. is better. I think the winter stars look more elegant. Plus, it was cool looking through the hole in the winter star and seeing the claw from the crab hotel moving when I had my city setup that way.