Discussion Eldrasil's Ascending

[Dony]

We found out as soon as it got released on Beta and changed it back to its original plan as soon as possible

maybe for next time just make official statement without spoiling anything on that day that this reward will be changed, or few day before it that 1 coming building will be changed, it shouldnt be big deal and would cause much less frustration

 

[DeletedUser118]

Hey Marindor,

thanks for pointing a few things out and that you want to forward our feedback.

But please keep one thing in mind when it comes to event buildings. Yes, Mana is still wanted since it became one of the core resources of researching technologies and buildings.

But if you decide to change an event building which I already built, I on my side have to decide whether to keep it or not. If not it will be gone for me forever since event buildings cannot be put back into the inventory. What's build is build. Other buildings from the Buildings menue can be deleted and rebuild at any time I want with no limitation of the amount. That's why its very important, if you notice a building is not giving the value it should be to inform us right away BEFORE you change it so we can give feedback if we might not better like it to stay the way it is.

This way you would have also prevented alot of ppl getting angry at you once again.

 

[Marindor]

Thanks guys and that feedback is certainly being forwarded (also yours @Ritsel ) . Also: I read about the situation where premium players would possibly have spent diamonds on nuts to get these buildings: Of course if you have put diamonds into this on the last day of the event and are now unhappy, always feel free to contact our support team so we can help you out.

 

[Dhurrin]

Too bad that your support team does not help one out when contacted but just refers to this thread

 

[SoggyShorts]

They've been requesting buildings which give lower culture but in return also give mana for a long time and these are generally the buildings that are liked best. Most (especially high chapter players) don't really have culture issues, but mana is all the more important for tech tree progression and building upgrades.

Yes, the building is probably better for those in chapter 9+, but they aren't "most" players. I'm fortunate enough to have all of my cities in chapters 9&11, but I don't think "most" players are.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, the building is probably better for those in chapter 9+, but they aren't "most" players. I'm fortunate enough to have all of my cities in chapters 9&11, but I don't think "most" players are.

Nope, I have to battle it out with the Orcs, and that will take a long long time I'm afraid, because I barely have any room for those Ugly Creatures. And also still not enough population willing to work for me

 

[DeletedUser283]

@Marindor , thanks for the clarification
now I would like to shed some light on an ambiguity regarding cluture/mana buildings :
-when/if the culture/mana buildings we unlock during chapter research are not satisfying or tricky to use, event culture/mana buildings get interesting; a typical case is the arcane library, that gives very little culture with a reasonable amount of mana, and you need tons of them to cater for your culture needs;
-when/if culture/mana buildings in the chapter are good, powerful and balanced, like the weeping willow or the grape farm, then we can organise both our culture and our mana production easier and event culture/mana buildings become less interesting, they are only a plus; on the other end, getting pure culture buildings as an extra is nice under such circumstances

so it is not that we want all pure culture or all culture/mana, different people have different needs, but nobody needs a building that we can't know for sure what it will do next day

I have decided to go with a mix of high level pure culture (event buildings), powerful mana/culture (now having several grape farms) and some culture/pop
when the flourishing nut cave came and I won 1, I immediately used it to get rid of a pair of smaller culture event buildings that I had built as fillers sometime ago, because it gave much more culture than those combined for the same footprint, and I was happy with this new building;
now you change it overnight and I am stuck with less culture than before and I am forced to move it to a place where I could wish to use the space more efficiently, that is next to a street;
hence the frustration ...

 

[Marindor]

Hi @Philplessis , thank you. We understand that and we have also learned from this that next time as soon as we find out a building isn't doing what it's supposed to do, we will inform our players through an ingame news message right away. We will also do this on our Live servers, where this is tomorrows daily reward because unfortunately we weren't able to implement the fix in time on Live. Although these are things we will never be able to prevent 100% on Beta, we are sorry for the frustration it caused and will, in case it happens again, at least do our best to be quicker with informing our players.

 

[Dhurrin]

@Marindor
Thanks for the clarification.

However, now the players (and most players are NOT in chapters where mana is an issue) are being saddled up with a mistake in the implementation/presentation of an event building.
I seriously do not understand the reason for changing it afterwards. A mistake is one thing, but to make the players pay the price for that is a really unacceptable practice.
I'm now (like @Philplessis ) stuck with 2 buildings that are giving me less culture. And unlike him, I don't even have the possibility right now to place it somewhere so it connects with a road, so I don't even benefit from the supplies, which I didn't want, but I do get to see the extremely annoying 'not connected with a road' sign everyday to remind me of this change.

Normally, if a business makes a mistake in its customers advantage, or where its about the same, its NOT the practice to charge the customer for its mistakes. To me, the way this was handled just is a kind of fraud and I am extremely annoyed by this, since I now am stuck with 2 shitty buildings I would not have chosen to even try for had I known the new specs.

So what is the reason it can't be changed back to what the specs said it would do?

 

[Deleted User - 86059]

@Dhurrin you do have to remember that this is the Beta server so changes will happen here however uncomfortable we might be with them they will happen here so that (hopefully) we can stop them going to live. That is the reason that diamonds are given for bugs. To encourage the reporting so live doesn't have that problem

 

[Deleted User - 60107]

And yet there have been plenty of times where a bug was reported on Beta, confirmed that it was indeed a bug, and STILL made it to the next Live version...

By the way, there's one thing I dont understand:
If this is supposed to be a bug where a building had the wrong stats, why was the change listed as an improvement and NOT as a bugfix? I mean, look at the release notes posted by @Marindor :

Balancing
- We have made the Flourishing Nutcave building a bit more valuable. It now not only gives culture, but also mana on higher levels and supplies on lower levels.
Miscellaneous
- After making a purchase, you now get an ingame message with details and to thank you for the purchase.
Bug Fixes
- Hands buttons in the notification list should disappear correctly

Source: Release Notes version 1.42
The change to the Flourishing Nutcave is clearly listed as a "Balancing" change and NOT as a "Bug Fix". To me that means there was no bug - the Flourishing Nutcave was working as intended, then someone decided to change its stats for some reason, and then it was declared a bug fix after the outcry from players.

 

[Marindor]

As said: The balancing was wrong for this building compared to our game design documents. We could have indeed listed it as a bug as well, but since of course it wasn't reported as a bug, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to introduce it as a fixed bug so we chose to put it under the balancing header, since after all it was about a change in the balance. So yeah, it could have fitted in both sections but we decided to put it under this one

 

[Deleted User - 60107]

Well, that's one bug that would never get reported simply because we had no way to know it was a bug! But, reported or not, a bug should be listed as a bug, else it comes off as an arbitrary change. Just sayin', for future such cases of "balancing" changes.

 

[SoggyShorts]

unfortunately we weren't able to implement the fix in time on Live.

What? Having Beta and Live servers just 1 week apart wasn't enough time to fix all bugs?
Complete Shock.
Maximum Surprise.
Absolutely no way to have seen this coming.
Would never have guessed this could happen based on previous events.
Totally unpredictable.

 

[DeletedUser]

Finished this event on live with an account that doesn't have a Barrack and no Magic Academy. Once again shows to me that the Magic Academy is a totally useless building. Please give us the option to remove it or make it really useful !

 

[Dhurrin]

@Dhurrin you do have to remember that this is the Beta server so changes will happen here however uncomfortable we might be with them they will happen here so that (hopefully) we can stop them going to live. That is the reason that diamonds are given for bugs. To encourage the reporting so live doesn't have that problem

The point is not that something was wrong. The point is the retroactive 'adjustment' which makes it really much LESS valuable to most players (since by far the most players aren't needing mana yet) and now needs roads and Inno presenting that as an improvement in value.

As for the diamonds: I think that has been covered by the above posts. it was not listed or treated like a bug, so that point is completely irrelevant to this case.

This was a case of a mistake by Inno, and its rather bad policy to have your customers pay for that. Also, the way it was, was not exactly unbalanced, so there was no real reason to change it. If anything needed to be done it was making a note for the designers for future reference, but not saddling up players with the results of a change like this

 

[DeletedUser1901]

When an event building for players in Chapter 9 and up adds mana, it does not make sense for there to be a huge leap in culture added as well. The only reason the non-mana event buildings have a huge leap in culture for Chapter 9 and up is that mana is more of a concern. So on the Culture/Mana buildings it doesn't make sense for them to be, not only much better for high chapter players because they add mana, but also much better for high chapter players because they add so much more culture for those players as well. Comparing event buildings from Chapter 8 to those from Chapter 9, you see that the culture almost doubles. The Magical Nutcracker gives a Chapter 8 player 520 culture, and a player in Chapter 9 980 culture. An increase of 460 culture. (57ish culture per tile to 108ish culture per tile). That's a significant increase. So my thoughts are that a building that does not add mana should have a decent culture increase to make it usable for Mana Chapter players, but a building that does add mana should not have that increase and should follow the same curve all the way up to the last chapter.

 

[ALdbeign]

The Magical Nutcracker gives a Chapter 8 player 520 culture, and a player in Chapter 9 980 culture. An increase of 460 culture. (57ish culture per tile to 108ish culture per tile). That's a significant increase. So my thoughts are that a building that does not add mana should have a decent culture increase to make it usable for Mana Chapter players, but a building that does add mana should not have that increase and should follow the same curve all the way up to the last chapter.

Percent wise (to culture needs) it is minor, to me the issue is that pre-mana chapters should not be tortured with crappy buildings, also the change after the fact to a building is essentially fraud. Really, the dev are too lazy to make a new building category so they add culture to mana buildings. these should just be a new tab in our build menu and thereby free the earlier chapters from this pretense.