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Do You Think Heroes Forge and Shrewdy Shrooms Should Replace Armories?

Electra Firestorm

Well-Known Member
As soon as I research the Orcs & Goblins Ancient Wonders, I’m callin’ Elvenar’s demolition squad of Orcs to tear down 2 of my Armories but I’ll keep one standing. I know what you’re saying. “What, are you crazy!” There’s a method to my madness.

In their place, I will build the Heroes Forge and Shrewdy Shrooms Ancient Wonders. The Heroes Forge only takes up a 5x5 space and the Shrewdy Shrooms fits in a 5x4 space. Elven armories take up too much space because their size changes at different levels. For elves, Levels 20-23 will be 5x5, Levels 24-27 will be 6x4 and Levels 28-31 will be 7x3.

Heroes Forge provides a boost to Heavy Melee units and produces Orcs. Shrewdy Shrooms produces units of the 2nd unit type (assuming that’s Light Range) and increases the training size in the barracks based on armory levels.

I think I’m making the right choice doing this but I could use some advice from Elvenar players before I tear down 2 armories. I’ll still be with the Orcs and Goblins until I gather the relics needed to build their Ancient Wonders. Off I go to send KPs to those in my fellowship and my neighbors who have already built the Ancient Wonders of the Orcs.
 

Electra Firestorm

Well-Known Member
That increase is based on armoury levels so you will want some armouries, otherwise look into bulwark.
Mykan, I’ve built the Dwarven Bulwark. Do you think it would be wise to demolish 2 armories now because my city will still have 1 armory but also a Dwarven Bulwark, a Heroes Forge and Shrewdy Shrooms?

I really want to have 1 armory in my city. The training size in the barracks is based on how many armories you have but I have already built a Dwarven Bulwark which increases training size. Shrewdy Shrooms will also increase training size. The Heroes Forge gives a boost to Heavy Melee units and produces Orcs.

I am at the end of the Orcs & Goblins chapter. The only reason I will need Orcs is to negotiate in the provinces. Hope we don't still need Orcs to unlock research when the Woodelves arrive.
 
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palmira

Well-Known Member
Live I have 4 armories, always producing orcs in 12h productions, a Heroes Forge, going to level 9, DBulwark and SSShrooms and I am running out of orcs with this race. My total training time is on the limit of comfortable, 14h. I would keep all the armories and the 3 AWs, you will need the orcs and the extra training time so your barracks are never idle.
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
I am at the end of the Orcs & Goblins chapter. The only reason I will need Orcs is to negotiate in the provinces. Hope we don't still need Orcs to unlock research when the Woodelves arrive.
You can always test it, with teleport spell it is minimal risk to drop down try it out and see if it suits you. In terms of only using orcs for negotiation you need to consider:
  • How many orcs do you spend on negotiating - this is impacted by scouting strategy and frequency of negotiating
  • How many orcs you are producing and willingness to upgrade heroes forge
  • Do you have other orc producing buildings or willing to place? Like orc nest from crafting should you need more orcs but don't want armoury
  • Are your workshops normal or magic? Normal ones requires orcs to upgrade, work on 4-5K orcs per workshop per chapter, wiki will give you exact amount
  • Orc spending for our immediate chapters is low (cater and workshops) but there is a definite trend in recent chapter to increase orc costs a lot. I would be training orcs constantly
  • Do you combat and therefore need orcs to train orc units?
  • Spire and FA can have orc requirements
Feel like I forgot something but there is a number of things to consider there. Everyone's experience will be somewhat unique, for example I have slowly increased my armouries from 2 to 6 with 3-4 for around elementals and 5-6 around amuni. My HF is only lvl 6 but I combat a fair amount and produce orcs almost non-stop. I have over 4mil orcs and the current race depends which use orcs a lot currently haven't made a dent in that. One of my fellows has a similar setup to me but better HF and had 6 armouries for longer yet they are running out of orcs.

Production is one thing but you also need to consider how you spend them too.
 

soleil

Guest
I have to ask this, and maybe I don't understand. We have orcs and goblins as a guest race, yet we use them as currency and slaughter them to upgrade wonders and workshops? I think we need a new currency other than these poor orcs. Think I'll be staying in fairies.
 

Electra Firestorm

Well-Known Member
Mykan, you are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you for your advice. Right now, I have 2,000 Orcs and 3 Orc Nests but they’re producing dust right now. Before I use Teleport Spells on my 2 Armories (Breeding Grounds), I’ll wait until I can build the Ancient Wonders of the Orcs & Goblins, and can bid them farewell. With them gone, I’ll be able to accumulate more Orcs, but I must stop negotiating and trading them away in the provinces. Like Soleil, I don't like trading them. That's terrible that Elvenar is doing this. They're not slaves nor monsters, they're just creepy, raidin' lootin' Orcs.

Since I like to linger a wee bit longer in chapters instead of racing through a game I enjoy, I’m going to see if I can get by with 1 Armory (Breeding Ground). I’ll build a Heroes Forge and Shrewdy Shrooms. Then I’ll work on leveling Dwarven Bulwark, Heroes Forge and Shrewdy Shrooms as high as I can. I like that Ancient Wonders do not increase in size, saves me lots of space.

I can't upgrade my remaining Armory (Breeding Ground), until I reach the Sorcerers & Dragons chapter. Hoping I don’t run out of orcs by then. You would think the Woodelves would help you upgrade the Armories (Breeding Grounds) to their style of architecture, but they don’t.
 
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Mykan

Well-Known Member
With that approach you will want to prioritize bulwark over shrooms due to how their bonus is calculated. you will need to investigate your own situation as to when and how much to push one over the other. Both also offer free troops which is handy.

In terms of orcs I have only heard players refer to them as slaves. It has been a very long time since I read the story line there so i might be forgetful. I have always understood when catering with orcs that are going of plundering and pillaging :D
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
The Orc needs (and Armory counts) depends mainly on your chapter and playstyle.
Orcs are needed:
Province negotiating (since ring 11 (or maybe 10, but I think it's 11))
Spire of Eternity (since Woodelves)
Tournament negotiating (don't know the criteria here, but they are there)
Orc units training in Training Grounds
Upgrading standard workshops
Upgrading Main Hall (for now only Constructs levels)
Constructs' roads
Guest races production (Orcs & Elvenars chapters)
Wonders build & upgrade (lv 1,6,11,... Constructs' & Elvenars' wonders)

By my opinion the main Orc sink is the Training Grounds. If you don't train units there (or don't have the building at all), for the next chapters, I think, that you'll be fine with 1 or 2 for next few chapters.
You can either try using only one and build the second (and third) when the orc production is not enough for you, or you can build two right from the start since their need increases in higher chapters.
 

soleil

Guest
I don't mean to de-rail this thread , there is a lot of good information here, but look what @Lovec Krys just wrote, Orcs are also used in Main Halls and ground up to be used in productions and streets! What the... this is really gruesome. I wouldn't blame the orcs for pulling out and never being a guest race since the citizens of Elvenar have found more uses for them. I'm starting a campaign to "Save the Orcs". although Orcs are a bit more savage they don't deserve this.
 

Electra Firestorm

Well-Known Member
I wrote a story about an Orc that should cheer you up Soleil. I'm not crazy about Orcs but they are our Guest Race. Why are we not treating them like a guest? In the provinces, Elvenar is overrun with Orcs and some of them are nasty fellows.

How many Orcs are there in Elvenar? Let’s see, there are the average Orcs, Ancient Orcs, Brutal Ancient Orcs, Orc Warriors, Orc Generals, Orc Deserters and their Murky Orc Deserter cousins that wield a Stinky Stink spell at you. And the worse of all –Mutated Orcs with a Strike Back of 3 and a wicked Special Ability called Wild Rage that lasts for 3 rounds. Yiii!

Even an Orc Can Teach Good Morals

I just saw an Orc walk down the steps to Baroness Estrella’s Masquerade party and say to the guests, “Orc need ride in Stretch Carriage.”

One of the guests replied, “Do you see that sign?” The Orc stares at the sign but says nothing. Watching the Orc, another guest very rudely says, “I’m guessing you can’t read. It says the carriage is for the rich and famous. Go about your business Orc.”

Oh no. You don’t ever want to be rude to an Orc. Later as the guests from the masquerade party leave and rush to enter the carriage to take them to their wealthy abodes, they find themselves sitting in dung. Euuuuu!

As they’re retching and jumping out of the carriage, the Orc comes out of hiding and says to the rude guests, “You deserve to sit in dung to show how much it stinks to be rude to others, even Orcs.”

A goblin grabs his hand to pull him away before they come after him with pitch forks and laughing, whispers into his ear. “That was cool but dung is good for mushrooms. Don’t waste dung.”

I think I heard the Orc say, “My bad.”

It seems to be my fate. My imagination gets sillier as it gets late.​