Discussion Release Notes version 1.25 + Tournaments rebalancing

[SoggyShorts]

i think many more people did more then 6 provinces, but never got to do 6 star because of the cooldown. Many also stop at 4 star because 5 star only gave relics

Right, but @Midnightsidhe asked how many provinces players "completed"
how do the new relic rewards compare for players doing 1/ 5/10/15 to 4 or 5 stars?

(on a tablet, not sure if there's a chart i can look up myself yet)

 

[DeletedUser1657]

Does anyone have the statistics for the average number of tournament provinces completed by a single player?

I would expect only Inno has this. It is not possible for a person to determine what someone else has done based on their tournament points. While you can figure it out round 1 or 2 by those with the same points as you this gets harder by the end of a tournament. With compressed points now even guessing at what someone did would be impossible. The best we could track was the total points a person obtained.

Something we do know and it varied a bit by world was as few as 3 provinces to round 6 use to regularly land you in the top 100 players often top 50, this did change with the fellowship tournament update and would subjectively be closer to 5/6 provinces at various later stages of completion.

i dont think thats completely true, i think many more people did more then 6 provinces, but never got to do 6 star because of the cooldown. Many also stop at 4 star because 5 star only gave relics (which they have no use for) and if you cant do 6 star its not worth doing 5 if its not your bonusweek.

The amount of players that did 15 provinces, that is small, and i think will even be smaller when this update hits live because of the increasing squadsize.

I would agree and in many tournaments I have being one of those doing 4-8 provinces but only to round 4 sometimes 5. However the same issue that will slow down the number of people doing 15+ provinces will also effect the other group too as the relative cost goes up.

In my opinion the rewards dont suck, just just wont be able to get the same amount because of a harder tournament. (albeit less time consuming since you have to stop sooner)

While the rewards are not terrible people are comparing them to what they had which in their eyes was better than the current rewards despite Inno calling the other rewards mediocre. People also look at tournaments as cost verse return which is why a lot of people only did the first 2 provinces. The cost of tournaments for the return was something that was raised before the changes and is now even higher. This will definitely effect participation even after the "dust settles" on all of the changes.

how do the new relic rewards compare for players doing 1/ 5/10/15 to 4 or 5 stars?

Table below doesn't go out to 10/15 provinces as I don't have the right data before or after to accurately compare. I could compare up to province 9 based on the pattern of rewards in the new system.

Spoiler: Changes

Edit: The unlabeled columns in the table in the new cumulative after runes are spells and then shards. So you can compare runes + shards between the 2 systems and decide based on what you think. I do not see shards as valuable as runes (don't see that changing) as if I get lucky that runes sticks and is worth 10 shards. You could effectively convert runes in the new system to a decimal points for shards so at province 5 you get 5.5 runes now verse 10 prior. While I don't have the data on 10-15+ provinces in the old system I expect like relics the number of runes eventually would be better in the new system if you go out far enough.

 

[DeletedUser1721]

ig you do 1 province you get 9 relics, it used to be 16
If you do 5 provinces you get 64 relics, it used to be 88
if you do 10 provinces you get 180 relics, it used to be 172
if you do 15 provinces you get 327 relics, it used to be 252

these are the numbers i come up with, assuming i didn make a counting error somewhere.

So i call this somewhat the same.

I have no idea where you're getting this from. One relic from first completion, as opposed to four or six. One relic from second time through the province, as opposed to four. And the resource cost was so severe, I couldn't do it a third time. That's two relics, from one province. Compared to twelve, from before the change (I have a job. I CAN'T complete the sixth round because I have a job and completing requires somehow checking the game while I am at work, which isn't possible because..... it's a job.....)

 

[Heymrdiedier]

right, 6x6 was what was tracked, sorry.
how do the new relic rewards compare for players doing 1/ 5/10/15 to 4 or 5 stars?

(on a tablet, not sure if there's a chart i can look up myself yet)

well the new tournament all rewards are a bit the same. so if you do 1 star less, you get about 1/6 less of the rewards, if you do 2 star less you get 2/6 less rewards (about).
Old tournament was completely different, 6 stars only gave rune shards, 5 star only relics (for the first xx provinces)
So comparing old 5 star to new 5 star. old gave you more of everything except rune shards (so you get more runeshards now if you stop at 5 star)
old 4 to new 4. you get more relics and rune shards now then you did before.

People also look at tournaments as cost verse return which is why a lot of people only did the first 2 provinces.

ok that might be right, but wasnt the rewards too high for those very cheap and simple first 2 provinces?

 

[Heymrdiedier]

ive taken the time to put it in a spreadsheet.

feel free to compare the relic rewards yourselves:

 

[DeletedUser1657]

I have no idea where you're getting this from. One relic from first completion, as opposed to four or six. One relic from second time through the province, as opposed to four. And the resource cost was so severe, I couldn't do it a third time. That's two relics, from one province. Compared to twelve, from before the change (I have a job. I CAN'T complete the sixth round because I have a job and completing requires somehow checking the game while I am at work, which isn't possible because..... it's a job.....)

He is using the total reward for the entire province. In your case where you only do a partial province due to time the results vary.

ok that might be right, but wasnt the rewards too high for those very cheap and simple first 2 provinces?

I do believe so but you may struggle to get many others to admit it same with the reduction in KP. I am undecided if the new KP amounts are reasonable but can also agree they were over done previously. Will also be interesting to see if they change in fellowship rewards offsets this a little but that will be case by case basis for a player/fellowship.

ive taken the time to put it in a spreadsheet.

feel free to compare yourselves:

Is that comparing relics?

 

[DeletedUser1721]

He is using the total reward for the entire province. In your case where you only do a partial province due to time the results vary.

Exactly. And it wasn't even due to time in this case, I was stopped dead after I finished the second round in province 1 because of goods costs, not even by time, even though I'm usually stopped later due to time.

It seems very, very harsh for them to have both increased the resource cost, and for them to have changed the rewards so now you are forced to go farther into the province, at higher cost, to get rewards even sort of equivalent to what you could get for significantly lower costs, earlier in the province. For my beta city it went from "possible" to "impossible" to go that far.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

Is that comparing relics?

yes relic rewards

I was stopped dead after I finished the second round in province 1 because of goods costs, not even by time, even though I'm usually stopped later due to time.

And thats exactly where i dont agree with the change. I think the change in rewards is fine, but i dont agree that players arent able to do as much provinces anymore, if anything it should have been made easier for low level players to be able to compete with the big shots.
if you drop the rewards a bit and then make it harder to get rewards, thats a double nerf. Thats exactly what happened to the bud sorceress as well, double nerf: in range and debuff, and now they are hardly used anymore, blossom mages are much better.

 

[Deleted User - 60107]

I do believe so but you may struggle to get many others to admit it

I agree that the old rewards were a litte too good for the early provinces. Or rather, the rewards were incorrectly ordered - we were getting high rewards in the early provinces and lower rewards the further away we got, while at the samer time the cost was rising. Instead the costs and rewards in the early provinces should have been low, and the further away you got from town the more both costs and rewards should have increased.

Unfortunately, the current costs are too high and the current rewards too low.

Thats exactly what happened to the bud sorceress as well, double nerf: in range and debuff, and now they are hardly used anymore, blossom mages are much better.

Not just the Blossom Mage, but the Banshee too. Comparison (from my town on Beta):
Sorceress II:
80 units per squad
Size: 4
Damage: 4224-6336
HP: 14800
Initiative: 14
Vs Heavy Ranged: +70%/-50%
Vs Heavy Melee: +60%/-60%
Skill: Broken Valor (-50% Enemy Attack for 2 rounds)

Banshee I:
107 units per squad
Size: 3
Damage: 4879-7319
HP: 14124
Initiative: 15
Vs Heavy Ranged: +70%/-80%
Vs Heavy Melee: +10%/-70%
Skill: Silver Scream (-50% Enemy Defense for 1 round)

Range and movement are the same for both.

So the Banshee has better Initiative, better damage, slightly less HP, slightly better bonuses versus Heavy Ranged, worse attack bonus but beter defense bonus versus Heavy Melee, and a skill that decreases enemy defense (which I consider better than decreasing enemy attack). Why, exactly, would I want to use the Sorceress instead of the Banshee? And remember: This is the upgraded Sorceress versus the basic Banshee, NOT the basic Sorceress versus the basic Banshee.

 

[CrazyWizard]

I agree that the old rewards were a litte too good for the early provinces. Or rather, the rewards were incorrectly ordered - we were getting high rewards in the early provinces and lower rewards the further away we got, while at the samer time the cost was rising. Instead the costs and rewards in the early provinces should have been low, and the further away you got from town the more both costs and rewards should have increased.

Unfortunately, the current costs are too high and the current rewards too low.

thats a matter of perception, if we would have started with these rewards when tournaments came out the rewardsw would still be awesome, right now we are just spoiled, in the future we might just like this reward as perception changes again,

Not just the Blossom Mage, but the Banshee too. Comparison (from my town on Beta):
Sorceress II:
80 units per squad
Size: 4
Damage: 4224-6336
HP: 14800
Initiative: 14
Vs Heavy Ranged: +70%/-50%
Vs Heavy Melee: +60%/-60%
Skill: Broken Valor (-50% Enemy Attack for 2 rounds)

Banshee I:
107 units per squad
Size: 3
Damage: 4879-7319
HP: 14124
Initiative: 15
Vs Heavy Ranged: +70%/-80%
Vs Heavy Melee: +10%/-70%
Skill: Silver Scream (-50% Enemy Defense for 1 round)

Range and movement are the same for both.

So the Banshee has better Initiative, better damage, slightly less HP, slightly better bonuses versus Heavy Ranged, worse attack bonus but beter defense bonus versus Heavy Melee, and a skill that decreases enemy defense (which I consider better than decreasing enemy attack). Why, exactly, would I want to use the Sorceress instead of the Banshee? And remember: This is the upgraded Sorceress versus the basic Banshee, NOT the basic Sorceress versus the basic Banshee.

It depends on your enemy, agains heavy melee I rather have the sorceres than the banshee. expecially agains knights I prefer her weakening attack since it makes you survive more.

I have put a unit breakdown that makes it easier to compare units here:
http://crazywizard.info/en/bb_unit_elves.html#mab

 

[DeletedUser1657]

It seems very, very harsh for them to have both increased the resource cost, and for them to have changed the rewards

You are not alone in that, at least among players.

if anything it should have been made easier for low level players to be able to compete with the big shots.

Its funny they made the comment recently (was it march video or Q&A or muf-muf's response?) that they have done this but it is not what I am hearing/seeing. I have smaller towns on live so if I get a chance I need to record some information this tournament to compare when this hits live. If anything they have swapped a low eras ability to negotiate for combat but many would prefer it to have remained the other way or to be competitive in both.

I will say one big benefit is the 4 encounters. doing this tournament on live and beta servers it is such a relieve to only have 4 encounters to do.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

Its funny they made the comment recently (was it march video or Q&A or muf-muf's response?) that they have done this but it is not what I am hearing/seeing. I have smaller towns on live so if I get a chance I need to record some information this tournament to compare when this hits live. If anything they have swapped a low eras ability to negotiate for combat but many would prefer it to have remained the other way or to be competitive in both.

What they havee done, is made it harder for the big shots, instead of easier for the low level players, i guess it results in the same effect, only it gives a lot more negative feedback on the forums

 

[DeletedUser118]

Looks like Version 1.26 is already running, but where are the release notes?

 

[Heymrdiedier]

Looks like Version 1.26 is already running, but where are the release notes?

Ooh interesting, lets see if there are allready wonder changes. I do think this is a mistake tho, 1.26 shouldnt be till next wednesday.

 

[Dony]

they said in that announcement that this will be happening, they are preparing next event which is quite big

 

[Heymrdiedier]

they said in that announcement that this will be happening, they are preparing next event which is quite big

You sure? the event was allready in 1.25 if i look at the raw data, dont think this has anything to do with it, maybe some bugfixes.

EDIT:Ooh the new wonders arent in after all
I tought they were because i saw excavation lvl 1 giving 2500 hammers instead of the 2000 on live, but thats because i have culture bonus

 

[Deleted User - 60107]

I see one new portrait for one of the Elf quest givers.

 

[Dony]

magic workshop went from 900 to 1400 diamonds, i guess i should hurry on live before its too expensiv
also my guess is that they will increase diamonds spent dramaticly (like 5k per AW) for broken rune shards to reflect new improved value of AWs and thus makes runes and broken shards more valuable for us, so dont be surprised if that happens

 

[DeletedUser]

I see one new portrait for one of the Elf quest givers.

You mean the one which gives fighting related quest ? That one was already in one of the previous updates.

 

[Deleted User - 60107]

You mean the one which gives fighting related quest ? That one was already in one of the previous updates.

No, not her.

The top portrait was different yesterday.