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Discussion [Discussion] Fellowship-based tournaments

DeletedUser1596

Guest
Am I the ONLY one that wishes that the tourneys would be ON WEEKENDS?

You are right, that it would be a little bit better, but still very unfriendly system. If you must fit 6 rounds into 5 days with 16h cooldown, the game still kind of tells you, when you have to be at the computer. You stay longer at work or go out with the kids and you are out of whole tournament. Better luck next week. This timing needs to be completely redesigned.
 

DeletedUser1163

Guest
I like not reliying on neighbours anymore, but this gives so much more question then answers:

* will there still be a server ranking? if there is only some (mediocre) rewards and no competition i fear interest will drop after a few months.
* old system you needed 7 hardcore players doing the same province to the max to be able to get the last reward, do we need 7 hardocre fellowship members then, or even more? i think it will be hard to get that many people interested.
* since fellowship are spread over the whole map, will the tournament still be on the world map or do we go to some distant place where we all have the same province 1,... etc
* will those rewards be for each province or for the tournament as a whole?
* i assume the blueprint will be 10th reward

I fear this change will change the setup of a lot of fellowships, and put a lot of pressure on some players in certain fellowships, wich usually ends up in players leaving (fellowship and/or game) and fellowships failing.

I welcome change but history tells us what you think is great differs alot of what we think is great, and therefor i hesitate to become enthousiastic
I fear this too. Already we have a member of our fellowship who wants to leave because others are not active in the fellowship challenge. This new feature of a fellowship challenge sounds like it is going to be time consuming. When I competed in the Tournament during events, it took hours to battle. All of us have busy lives. Games should not consume all of our waking hours.
 

DeletedUser118

Guest
Yes, and that's exactly why you should let that member just leave and forget about him/her. You will find somebody else who doesn't think being active 24/7 is a must. :)

Some ppl in this game must learn that, even though Inno offers and will offer alot of features that will be very time consuming in the future, that not everyone wants to play like that. Therefor I'm sure groups of players will find a way to eachother, those who are very active and those who rather like to play more easy going.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
Reward system could be changed to work differently. Making 10 chests to be much more accesible, lets say that 110k we thought on the start, without blueprint as reward. Make blueprint as separate reward based on points acquired.
If fellowship gain less then 110k then roll chance for blueprint will be 0%, at 110k chance will start at 5% and then rising till 440k where it will be 100% (whatever numbers you want)
Roll chance will be separate for each individual member.
With this system fellowships wont feel like doing something which is impossible to get, but there will be luck involved. This will also partly fix problem for fellowships without 25 members.

Regarding base rewards, our average fellowships on our server reached 4th chest and already figured out its not even worth this 4 rewards.
It cost them too much compared to gain and decided to rather do 1 full province clear on world map then participating on tournament.
4 chests give 15 KP, 1 rune, 2 spells, 6 relics
1 province gives 8 KP, 1 rune, 8 relics and 1 step closer to new expansion

Even blind can see what is more worth.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Another way to take some of the pressure off, and help FS with fewer than 25 members would be to drop the TP required by 20%, and only count the scores from the top 20 FS members.

note: this 20% reduction would be on top of any reduction already needed, as there seems to be a 100% consensus that 440,000 is insane, and even the rest doesn't work on a cost:reward basis.
 

DeletedUser1657

Guest
Another way to take some of the pressure off, and help FS with fewer than 25 members would be to drop the TP required by 20%, and only count the scores from the top 20 FS members.

note: this 20% reduction would be on top of any reduction already needed, as there seems to be a 100% consensus that 440,000 is insane, and even the rest doesn't work on a cost:reward basis.

I would not expect anything extra for smaller fellowships as it is part of the incentive to get more people. The could do something temporarily while the game tries to attract more players but their would be an uproar when it got removed.

For me the reduction to the 440,000 total need to factor in an 80-90% full fellowship which and then be based on what is reasonable for the member of that to complete. It would give a slight edge to a fellowship with a full 25 but there are many times a fellowship is a person or 2 down as a natural part of play.

@Marindor are you able to confirm what happens to a person's points if they exit a fellowship mid-tournament, what if they rejoin a fellowship?
  • If they exit, Are all point they gave to a fellowship lost and the person gets no fellowship rewards
  • If they exit 1 fellowship and join another, Do the points effectively move from one fellowship to another or do they reset to 0 in the new fellowship
  • If they exit a fellowship and rejoin the same do the points just continue as if they never left?
 

DeletedUser1596

Guest
Sorry guys, but this is wrong. Until recently we were given nothing. Then they introduced FS tournaments, which means no extra effort, just extra reward. It's been a week or two and you already cry for more. When you find out, that you cannot reach the 10th chest with your skill and patience, you demand lowering the difficulty.

The rewards are just fine.. if not too generous.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Sorry guys, but this is wrong. Until recently we were given nothing. Then they introduced FS tournaments, which means no extra effort, just extra reward. It's been a week or two and you already cry for more. When you find out, that you cannot reach the 10th chest with your skill and patience, you demand lowering the difficulty.

The rewards are just fine.. if not too generous.

We are assuming the idea behind making tournaments FS based was to make them more desirable, and to encourage teamplay.
The rewards do not justify putting in more effort which is needed to reach equal or better rewards than the old solo system.

Also, for players who are not at max boost, getting 7-10 fewer relics in exchange for 5 kp and a couple spells is not an improvement. Especially if you lose those KP because you aren't online when the tournament ends. (it fills your bar and you don't get hourly KP)

When you find out, that you cannot No one will reach the 10th chest with your skill and patience, even if you combine the top 25 players on a server, you demand lowering the difficulty.

If I offer a $100 reward to anyone who can run the 100m dash in under 9 seconds, what's the point? Now instead of $100 make it hours of planning, coding etc. total waste of time, or marketing scam, either way it could be improved-- hence the posts in this thread "crying for more"
 
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DeletedUser1596

Guest
That is true, however with new races the production of units will rise, with new (and old) AWs the strength of our units may rise as well and perhaps those people that did not fight untill now, will start fighting. It's too soon to tell. After all, this will be the first FST without serious bugs, so let's wait for new data.
 

DeletedUser1596

Guest
[sorry for double post, clicked post reply instead of upload file]

TheEnd.jpg


As you can see, our fellowship reached the middle of the 9th chest. 2 of our members are currently away (vacation and work), one of them usually finishes with the same result as I do. We did not agree on any special effort during this tournament. This means that 9th chest is 100% reachable. This also means, that reaching 10th chest is only for very strong and well prepared fellowship.

It's hard to tell if this is good or bad. Maybe it should stay a difficult challenge or maybe it should be reachable for more players. But it's definitely not impossible.
 

DeletedUser1657

Guest
Was a huge spike in participation this tournament. Unsure if silk is easier then other provinces but here are the numbers

Number of people who achieved 17600 (6x6)
ServerPlanksScrollsSilk
Beta?1128
EN141230
EN261129
US151121
US251015
US33619
US431019
US52613
Total servers2877174

Number of people on a server needed to reach 440K
ServerScrollsSilk
Beta2616
EN12416
EN22617
US12717
US23020
US33121
US43017
US53524

I noticed at least one fellowship had a lot of people in the top achievers so unsure if a fellowship did achieve a blueprint this time.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
silk is an easy tournament, so off course you noticed a spike there :D
similar with the tournament 2 weeks ago which was also a treant happy tournament (with the lovely adition of special powers not working making the enemy sorceres like bugs to be squashed by treants)
 

DeletedUser1596

Guest
off course it's possible, as long as you have enough members who are jobless / "house" wives / self employed and can play during work hours.

It has nothing to do with strong.

I don't think you know what you are talking about. As far as I know none of us is jobless, quite the opposite. Sometime we have to skip a whole tournament and some of us fight only to the 5th level, because they are too busy. Some may visit Elvenar during working hours, but not to fight the tournament. We have 2 retired members, but I wouldn't call them jobless.

You see, we may not always agree with each other here on this forum, but if you take a closer look, most of the people here are posting their arguments based on their experience, usually supported with numbers and/or screenshots. Your argument seems more like a hate-talk. Get some facts and I'll be happy to hear them even if they prove me wrong.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Ok if you guys do not play during work hours? how on earth are you guys reaching round 6 with that many people(like on the russian server who reached the blueprints)?

I play the tournament every week, I finish 1st most of the times, and why, because I play during my break once a week during work hours.
There is no time frame I can work with that does not involve work hours.

Your screenshot also shows numbers that can't be reached without work hours play.

There are a trillion posts on all the forums showing how impossible it is to reach round 6 without using work hours I do not need to repeat myself there. the Us is even worse since there tournament starts in the middle of the day.

I play during my break on my cellphone, all other people I know who reach round 6 (on a regular basis) that I have spoken with are either jobless, ICT employed, self employed or housewives. and a rare few allowed to play on the job on the sidescreen that arent in ICT.

I havent met retired people at elvenar, but yeah they fit in just fine with that list I posted.

so I do not think my post was that presumptious (btw you also did not reach the blueprint did ya?, you were only something like 200k of 440k short?)

You do not need a guild that strong, what you need are people able to reach round 6.
 

DeletedUser1596

Guest
how on earth are you guys reaching round 6

At least 3 people get help from their wives with the second round. Round 3.. well.. I have to get up at 03:00 (am) to get it done before going to work and then the 4th round starts after 23:00, when I get back from volleyball training. When the fights are tough, I go to sleep long after the midnight and then get up again after 4 hours of sleep and go to work. So this is how it's done. And yes, it's getting on our nerves. If I ever wanted to quit playing Elvenar, it was because of this. But I guess, I'll get enogh sleep when I'm dead, right?

And yes, we were still a long way away from the blueprint, but we are not all-warriors. We are FS of random people. Other FSs specialised on tournaments may reach that. And as I said before, we are all slowly getting stronger with higher levels of various buildings. And last.. we got 50 KP, 5runes, 5spells and 15relics for free - as a reward. As for me, I'm motivated enough. And the blueprint? Honestly, do we need it?
 

DeletedUser1767

Guest
We've always known it was possible; the math was done when the new system was first introduced. I was going to type "the question is whether it's feasible for most fellowships," but that's not really the actual rubric here. Inno probably has an idea of how many fellowships (maybe raw numbers, maybe percentages) they think should be reaching the blueprint each week. If the number of fellowships achieving this matches with their numbers, then everything is working the way they intended for it to, and they're unlikely to change it.

So I guess the question, actually, is: does Inno intend for reaching the blueprint to be something within the grasp of most fellowships putting in some effort, or are they intending it to be something very rarely achieved? At the moment, getting the blueprint seems to be vaguely analogous to the Third Grand Prize in Big Events, and that might be their intention. If that isn't their intention, if they want this to be something most fellowships can get at least some of the time, then they're going to have to change the numbers because NO.

Supposing we're in the Third Grand Prize universe (as the available evidence suggests), there's definitely an issue up for debate as to whether or not the players feel that this is a reasonable decision, but that's sort of vaguely orthogonal to the question of feasibility/possibility and whether the system is working as intended.

Personally, I'm not sure of the wisdom of having some item appear in the game every single week but be perpetually way beyond the reach of almost all players. It doesn't bother me in one-time events, but seems a little harsh as a regular game feature, because the majority of players are going to either stop caring about the item entirely or perceive the situation as unfair (unless they're in a fellowship where everyone can go six rounds in at least six provinces, in which case they'll probably think the situation is perfectly adequate). The latter's not great for player morale.

I don't know, I still think it would be better if your progress looped from week to week. Non-tournament-powerhouse fellowships still wouldn't get blueprints all that often, but they'd get them occasionally, which makes things feel different. It kind of depends on what the blueprints can do besides upgrade magical buildings, though.
 

DeletedUser1548

Guest
My fellowhip (#1 on the server) opened 9th chest but now our caches are empty, so next week it won't be that great.

I can confirm what @CrazyWizard said. Most of the people I know cannot play computer games during working hours and honestly, should they...?
Ones who reach 6* are from the groups mentioned above.

Tournaments are not about skill.
It's about being able to fit into 16h timers (sic!) = no job (or playing instead of working), no sleep,.
Having high pain treshold in terms of monotony (sic!) - I was a fighter, but seriously after Tournaments were introduced I played manually like... In 2 battles maybe? I can't bear it anymore. ;)

Game parameters like army, resources, diamonds are less important here and it's kind of sad, IMO.

Edit: I don't care about Blueprings but again we get prizes that are out of reach for non-Russian people (you know, Russians in computer games often rule ;)). Just like in previous Tournaments, just like in events (<1% chance of getting the best prizes with maximum effort is not quite fair).
 

DeletedUser1893

Guest
Number of people who achieved 17600 (6x6)
ServerPlanksScrollsSilk
Beta?1128
EN141230
EN261129
US151121
US251015
US33619
US431019
US52613
Total servers2877174

PL1 silk 50
Number of people on a server needed to reach 440K
ServerScrollsSilk
Beta2616
EN12416
EN22617
US12717
US23020
US33121
US43017
US53524
PL1 silk 13

16ppl in my FS did 440k
turniej2.jpg
 
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