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[Discussion] Changes in declining quests

Mordor

Member
This is all I have to say on this matter to the developers stop saying we are working on x problem and do something about it. We have been waiting since the beginning of this game for improvements and more additions to the game. If you are unable to do what is needed to make this game better maybe you need a new team of developers.
 

DeletedUser199

Guest
to sum it up : I train sorceresses, they are oh so useful, but not 500 !

the problem with this quest is that it has no logic behind it;
or some twisted logic, which is the same to me;
I cannot figure why I would have to train 500 sorceresses before getting another quest, it does not fit my gameplay, hence I decline it.
end of story


So what do you think of the other nice quest with sorceresses "Lose 200 scorceresses in battle"

You actually have to sacrifice your troops in order to be able to go on on with your quests!:confused:
 

DeletedUser283

Guest
lol !
it almost happened to me on my last scrolls province
encounters were full of thieves (or were them bandits? the ones that look a bit like sword dancers) and my sorceresses had a hard time trying to survive :)
 

Craven12

Guest
For the stuck when your workshop are still 6 fields and you have all 3 types of good then you need 1 to 2 days without troop production to get enough supplys to unlock researches.
 

DeletedUser338

Guest
Alright, I think we can all agree that people were abusing the repeatable quests, but that this is not the answer to that problem.
You see, there is an underlying problem, a reason why we all need and use repeatable quests; we don't get enough supplies. Gold comes out of every corner in this game, but supplies are surprisingly hard to get. There's only two reliable ways to get supplies; Workshops and Quests. And Workshops don't produce enough. We need supplies to get goods, to finish quests, to upgrade buildings, to produce troops and sometimes even to negotiate.
I don't LIKE going through quest after quest, but if I don't, I will be out of supplies in no time. And the problem isn't with how my city is build. The gold-supply ratio will always be screwed up, because Residences give and give (they only need culture, but give gold and people), whereas Workshops ask for people and culture, but don't really give you that many supplies. Hell, they don't give anything at all unless you tell them to start working. If my internet is out for a day, I won't have to worry about gold, because my residences will keep producing, but my workshops will be pretty damn useless.

So what I suggest is that they buff the supply-production. Either make it like the Residences, or just make it a number buff, but right now it's too hard to get a reliable supply-production without using repeatable quests.
 

DeletedUser1232

Guest
It's crazy blocking the game in this way... I have all my workshops level 15, and a quest ask for upgrade workshop... What I have to do? Why I cannot play if I dont want wait 3 days for a product? Change the system or change the quest!!
 

DeletedUser967

Guest
If you need to decline quests, then there is a problem with those quests. Could you tell us which quests you "need" to decline, and why that would be? It would help us improve your game experience!
Sorry MufMuf but I don't remember those quests. But they are when we get repeatable quests for 50k gold and 4500supply, then we have many of no profitable quests to decline by the way to make these quests for gold and supply. Now I don't have quest for supply but I have for gold, to do this quest I must decline many others too.

If you really want this 1 day delay between declining next quests then solution is easy - just remove 3/4 of these non sense quests for 30 goods, build 3x buildings etc. These quest are no profitable and - NOW - a trap for us. Now on my stage - high end stage, I don't need these quests I have everything without them, but as I said before - think about the new players. We all when we started play in elvenar we made these quests for faster progress where now new players need X times more time than us to do that - you really think they will be waiting for? Players want fast progress, fast possibility to gets goods, in elvenar we have no possibilities to do that except exactly these quests.
I don't tell that to completly remove this system, but if you need that just remove 3/4 of quests - really. Trust me that 3/4 of them are not using by other players but if you can't do that - remove this system.
Because even if you change time to wait, well still need to much time to declinig that much quests for this one good quest.
Now you just kill all new players, in this case just wait for leaving players :(

Next question is, Why you 'implement features' which ARE NOT important for us - players, only what you do is make this game more harder for new players - really harder, and looks for yours - IG - needs but what with us? Make new technology tree, make some option to continue our adventure in elvenar word. Now situation here is simply, new players can leave really fast - I told why, and all experience players want to leave this game - because they have nothing to do here without production production production x10000^n .

Please...just do something fine for us because this game is on the good way to close. :(
 

DeletedUser283

Guest
as a generic rule, I consider that if a quest stays on my game for more than 24 hours, the problem is with the quest and not with me ...

this applies perfectly to the "train 500 sorceresses" one,
and so does it to the "produce 3 whatever" (3 x 24hours goods production) : in order to achieve these quests within a reasonable time frame, I would need 3 manufactories of each, and I have no time nor space for this (and I do not need that many goods, I am well stocked right now, believe me).
plus it has already been clearly demonstrated that offering planks as a reward for slower planks production without compensating for the losses is not nice nor appealing.

these quests do not help us achieve anything, and this is the reason why we decline them;
preventing us from declining them is impeding our gameplay, and it is forcing a certain way of playing onto us, a way we do not accept;
if developers are so eager to have us completing quests, let them present us with incentive quests, and not these unbalanced riddles that get into the path of our gameplay.
and if this way of playing the game is so important to them developers, maybe it is time that they explain us how they expect us to play this game;
I have spent enough years on FoE to learn how to design a city in a city-builder game, how to fight my way across the map, and how to decide on the usefulness of quests.
 

DeletedUser1095

Guest
to sum it up : give us quests that make sense, and we will not skip them; preventing us from skipping quests that do not apply to our city is simply showing us no respect.
bring on new content instead

What he said! And in the meanwhile: How about a little quid pro quo:
Fix it so if we decline a quest twice, it stops coming back to bother us.
 

Kr0n0s

Guest
Going this way will reduce the interactivity between players and your most active players will simply leave the game.
Thank you for all those 'improvements', it shows how much you are invested in this game ...
 

Denali

Guest
Thanks for this change, I support this product.

Reason: I am lazy... so I don`t want to click to much.
 

DeletedUser802

Guest
Dear Humans and Elves,

Please use this thread to discuss the changes in the quests system, as announced here (click).

We are looking forward to your feedback!

Kind regards,
Your Elvenar Team



I think that forcing people to accept quests, or to wait for hours to decline them is possibly the worst thing to happen to this game. It was a ridiculous decision. If the quest system was out of whack, then fix it, don't burden your players with unnecessary delays and rules. Yes, I regularly decline quests that do not suit my city, or my chosen method of game playing. We have all seen these quests---"make 700 sorceresses" ---why would I want to waste 3 days and thousands of resources on making something that I will never use? My city is at the end of the research tree. The AI troops are so many times stronger than mine that there is no point to making any. Or "upgrade a building to level 5", well all my buildings are already upgraded to the maximum grade of 15. So what am I supposed to do? Start a new building, that I don't need or want, and spend days and thousands of resources and goods, and have to get more population, upgrading a building that I don't want, just to finish a quest? That makes no sense. There are many such quests, all taking up far too much time and resources to fulfill----and that don't fit my city or playing. I have four cities, and I already have to waste more than enough time on the mandatory quests. Now you want to make all the quests virtually mandatory?

Of course people decline quests------each player declines or accepts the quests that best suit his city and style of playing! And frankly, it sounds absurd to say that quest are not supposed to be used to gain resources! What else are you using them for, but to get coins and supplies? Sometimes, because my city is at the maximum level, it costs me ten thousand coins and supplies just to set my goods buildings off for a 3 hours run! Never mind the 9 hour run or the 1 day run. That is one example of when I use the quests to get the supplies that I need to get the buildings going. Otherwise I would have to spend days accumulating supplies in order to run my goods buildings. If I have to wait days just to set my goods buildings running one time, I might just as well stop playing altogether! I am a patient person, but I am not that patient.

Making all quests mandatory is not the answer to the designers problem----it will only serve to aggravate players. If the designers are having problems with the quest system, then they should fix the system, not try to fix the players. If they insist that players accept all quests, then they need to make the quests much shorter in duration, for a much better reward. Nobody wants to spend days fulfilling a quest and getting a miserly reward, so naturally that quest gets deleted. Putting artificial delays in the path of your players is only going to increase their frustration and induce more people to just give up the game and stop playing.

This supposed solution to the the designers problem with the quest system is poorly thought out and badly executed. It will serve only to annoy players, and make them stop using the quest system at all, or even quit the game entirely.
 

Purple Rain

Guest
I support what michelelyons has to say 1000%. It seems to me you would be better placed heading the design team or maybe even as head of customer relations in that wonderful Head Office the game owners have built for themselves... the company need much more joined-up thinking :D
 
This discussion continues to amaze us: the amount of feedback is overwhelming. Keep it coming, please! :)

From what we have now read, we would say that there are two core problems with the quests system as it is on Beta now. This does not mean these are the only problems, but it is what we believe might be the very cause of why this change is so heavily rejected by the community. Because of these reasons, you are skipping quests that we would want you to enjoy. We have "fixed" the effect of this now, but we want to go deeper than that, and fix these underlying problems whereever possible. The reasons that we believe cause most of you to decline quests are:
  1. The quests that you receive, are not interesting enough for you as a player to complete, due to varying reasons. Examples:
    • The rewards are not good enough for the investment you have to make, either time-wise or resource-wise.
    • The buildings that the quests require you to upgrade and/or build do not interest you as a player.
  2. There are quests that you cannot complete, for example due to not having the required buildings or space to do so (e.g. players who have a maxed-out city already).
As said, there may be more, but from what we have seen, these reasons appear to be at the bottom of any reason we have seen. Please, if we missed anything that does not fall under each of those two reasons, do make us aware!

As before, we would like to take the time and reply to a bunch of posts individually as well. Again: if anything is missing, do not hesitate to post again and make us aware. We want your feedback - all of it! :)

How it was
[...]

How it will be
[..]
Thanks a lot for this analysis, @LordB, this will help us a lot!

A lot of feedback has already been given and I didn't read all, so I might repeat some.

I don't like the declining of the quest, the way it is now. I do see people can repeat quests over and over again and gain coins and supplies fast. I understand you want to stop that. But I think this is the wrong way to do it. The reason I think that, is because I think peple will be stuck soon and/or forced to play in a way they don't want.
For example: I don't want to produce 3 daily things, I like to produce every 3 hours and then the 9 hours for the night. I am stuck with that quest now, because I am forced to produce 3 daily potions. That also reduces the production of my goods, even with the 200 elixer bonus. 867 per 3 hours or 2767 per day, it is a huge difference. I don't want that quest now, not today, I only like that when I won't be online so much.
I reached the end of the tech tree weeks ago. My buildings are finished, my city has no room anymore for further expansion. Of course that might change with the expansion of the tech tree, if that expansion ever comes. But in the meantime, how to upgrade buildings? I can't upgrade workshops, residences or manufactories anymore. In the dutch server, I can upgrade buildings. But I would be very pissed of if a quest forces me to upgrade 2 workshops, while I want to upgrade my residences or manufactories.
The quest: research a technology (I don't get it here anymore, but in the dutch sever) sometimes requires 70 or 72 knowledgepoints. If I don't buy them and don't fight or negotiate for it, then I need to wait 3 days before I can do another quest. That is not funny anymore. I like to do something, work for it and get a reward, but a repeatable quest shouldn't take days.

Lord B posted a list of usefull quests. Those are the quests I like and repeat. I sometimes do the gain 100 culture, or gain 4 relics, only when I had planned to do so. Meaning I am not gaining 100 culture to do that quest, but choose that quest when my culture is almost finished. I decline the train 1000 units (takes too long). I also often decline the upgrade buildings.

These quests are really usefull and also the ones that can give huge amounts of supplies and coins when you repeat them.

I don't understand why we can only decline 1 quest a day. It means we can be stuck on a quest for days, or do only 1 quest each day, depending on the quest we get. If we should get daily quests, we can still enjoy it and still decline and there won't be so much profit as we can get now and we wouldn't be stuck.
Suppose you can do each quest once a day. And decline quests if you want.
We can then decide to skip the upgrade of the building for example and choose to collect 150 k coins. After completing a quest, it won't appear again till the next day. Skip the fighting and winning of 3 encounters, because my troops aren't strong enough or because I don't want to fight today. Then choose something else that can be done in a few hours or takes a day. We will get rewards, but it won't be as huge as it was.

I think people should be able to choose how they want to play. I think daily quests would be a good solution between what we had first and what we have now.
We would say that this is a perfect example of the behavior we tried to describe above: the quests you mentioned take too much time to complete (sometimes even multiple days), but the rewards are not high enough to make them worth your while. While it is not bad that a quest may take a longer time to complete, we do realise that they should be worth doing. If that is not the case, then we should certainly review the quest and improve it in a way to make it more attractive for everyone.

When I was new to the game and first realized that the declinable quests are also repeatable, i thought that it should be a bug. But in the forums i read somewhere (i couldn't find that particular thread now) that this is intended and not a bug. Since then, i am using this "feature" even if i still think that such a quest system is not appropriate.
After several months, you say now that this was indeed not intended. That is a bit strange i believe.
It was intended that the quests were possible to skip an unlimited amount of times, which is why we said it is not a bug. And it was not, and still is not. But, it is not intended that the quests are used as an unlimited supply of coins and supplies, or making it possible to do the same quests over and over again, just for the rewards. We want quests to be engaging, challenging and most of all fun to complete. Repeating the same one or two quests all day long reaches none of these goals, which is why we made the decision to change that. Did we do that in the right way? Maybe, but judging from your feedback, there is still some more work to be done to make the system perfect. This is why we are having this conversation with you now, and will continue to have this conversation with you for as long as is necessary. We want invest our time in making this feature work in a way that everyone is happy with. It may take some time to pull it off, but that shouldn't stop us from trying at all. :)

Did you read my whole post? There are examples in it.
Yes, we read the entire thread up to this point, including all posts. And, thanks for the examples you have provided us with so far! If you have more, do not hesitate to share!

to sum it up : I train sorceresses, they are oh so useful, but not 500 !

the problem with this quest is that it has no logic behind it;
or some twisted logic, which is the same to me;
I cannot figure why I would have to train 500 sorceresses before getting another quest, it does not fit my gameplay, hence I decline it.
This would certainly be a quest that I could see needs a review. We'll find out which quest this is exactly and we will make sure to forward the feedback about it.

Apparently they do not want to understand, what the players actually annoys.
Yes, we do want to understand. If we didn't, we wouldn't be reading or replying all this. ;)
 
(A second post, as it couldn't fit in one due to the character limit.)

Alright, I think we can all agree that people were abusing the repeatable quests, but that this is not the answer to that problem.
You see, there is an underlying problem, a reason why we all need and use repeatable quests; we don't get enough supplies. Gold comes out of every corner in this game, but supplies are surprisingly hard to get. There's only two reliable ways to get supplies; Workshops and Quests. And Workshops don't produce enough. We need supplies to get goods, to finish quests, to upgrade buildings, to produce troops and sometimes even to negotiate.
I don't LIKE going through quest after quest, but if I don't, I will be out of supplies in no time. And the problem isn't with how my city is build. The gold-supply ratio will always be screwed up, because Residences give and give (they only need culture, but give gold and people), whereas Workshops ask for people and culture, but don't really give you that many supplies. Hell, they don't give anything at all unless you tell them to start working. If my internet is out for a day, I won't have to worry about gold, because my residences will keep producing, but my workshops will be pretty damn useless.

So what I suggest is that they buff the supply-production. Either make it like the Residences, or just make it a number buff, but right now it's too hard to get a reliable supply-production without using repeatable quests.
Coins are indeed not hard to come by (and shouldn't be). Supplies and goods should be the more challenging factors, indeed. But, if you have to keep doing the same quests over and over again just to gain enough supplies to start your production, then there is something wrong in the balance at some point. This could be by the way the number of buildings in your city is distributed, but it can of course also be on our side, by not giving you enough (ways to gain) supplies in the first place. This is something that will have to be figured out and reviewed thoroughly, so we will forward this comment to have that done.

Sorry MufMuf but I don't remember those quests. But they are when we get repeatable quests for 50k gold and 4500supply, then we have many of no profitable quests to decline by the way to make these quests for gold and supply. Now I don't have quest for supply but I have for gold, to do this quest I must decline many others too.

If you really want this 1 day delay between declining next quests then solution is easy - just remove 3/4 of these non sense quests for 30 goods, build 3x buildings etc. These quest are no profitable and - NOW - a trap for us. Now on my stage - high end stage, I don't need these quests I have everything without them, but as I said before - think about the new players. We all when we started play in elvenar we made these quests for faster progress where now new players need X times more time than us to do that - you really think they will be waiting for? Players want fast progress, fast possibility to gets goods, in elvenar we have no possibilities to do that except exactly these quests.
I don't tell that to completly remove this system, but if you need that just remove 3/4 of quests - really. Trust me that 3/4 of them are not using by other players but if you can't do that - remove this system.
Because even if you change time to wait, well still need to much time to declinig that much quests for this one good quest.
Now you just kill all new players, in this case just wait for leaving players :(

Next question is, Why you 'implement features' which ARE NOT important for us - players, only what you do is make this game more harder for new players - really harder, and looks for yours - IG - needs but what with us? Make new technology tree, make some option to continue our adventure in elvenar word. Now situation here is simply, new players can leave really fast - I told why, and all experience players want to leave this game - because they have nothing to do here without production production production x10000^n .

Please...just do something fine for us because this game is on the good way to close. :(
No need to be sorry, we appreciate any feedback! :) While I don't think that simply removing a lot of quests is going to solve the problem, it should certainly be reviewed what incentives certain quests give. If you have quests that you don't want to do, please tell us why it is that you don't want to do them (this goes for everyone, of course!).

Also, we are working on new features for you to enjoy already, and we hope to deliver you more information over the coming weeks. Please stay tuned for that! :)

And frankly, it sounds absurd to say that quest are not supposed to be used to gain resources! What else are you using them for, but to get coins and supplies?
Quests can certainly be used for resources, and you won't hear us deny that. What we tried to say, though, is that they should not be your main source of income. Yes, they are important at the start of the game, while your city is still being developed, but at some point your city should be able to "stand on its own", and it is at that point that the quests are intended to become more of a "bonus" than an actual source of income for resources.
 

DeletedUser651

Guest
I am going to be very blunt because I am very angry. I am angry for all the people who trusted the rules and invested money in this game based on those rules and now you keep their money and change the game on them. Why should they trust anything you folks do? After all, all you sell are pixels. If you can change the pixels and the rules for those pixels on a whim, why would they buy those pixels? They have no clue what they are getting day to day.

1. You keep saying you want to listen to us and you want to make the quest system better.

Well, I don't believe you. Not necessarily you personally, but anyone putting forth this idea. I trust people to behave in the future the way they behaved in the past. The MOST watched thread EVER in the forums was the thread where we all screamed until we were hoarse about the stupid, time consuming, unproductive ridiculous quest to upgrade non boosted manufactories.

Nothing ever happened. So, why should we believe anything now?

If you want us to believe you, you have one course of action...remove this stupid limitation, open a thread and get feedback, and then listen and change the system to something workable for all. You could try....oh...I don't know....to make the game better? Instead of worse? The game is NOW worse. Will it ever get better again? I don't know. Neither does anyone who ever thought about giving Inno a dime. From a big picture standpoint, this seems like a horrible way to keep paying customers. But if that isn't your goal, then ignore me.

2. You have implemented this change and dumped it on us.

You did not ask first, you have never bothered to care what we think about the quests. This discussion needs to be had BEFORE the game was destroyed, not after. See number 1.

3. Content is coming

We have heard this for a long time. But it hasn't. It is again obvious to anyone that the repeating quests at the end were designed for the beginning part of the last section of the tech tree. Ok, yup. We all got them done and now they just sit there for the top players and most of them aren't applicable any more. Again....you aren't stupid. You know. Sure, you can pretend to ask us all so we feel "heard" but this is more patronizing than useful. If you want to extend the tech tree and make new quests that are applicable for the next section, fine, do that. That would be great. But, players have learned how to find a way to stay interested in the face of nothing to do. Either give them something to do or don't take away the way they have found this game interesting.

4. You say you play the game.

Let's just take one example.... the build one Altar of the Forefathers should have been a one and done quest. But, you all know this. To give this quest back to you after you are done with the game is nonsensical. Not a chance you design a game like this and don't have a brain in your heads. There is also not a chance that anyone playing the game will keep building one of these stupid things and then delete it every time they come upon it.


5. I love the idea of only being able to decline each quest a number of times a day...say 5 or 10. I don't know the exact right number. But the way it is now, the game is unplayable.
 
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DeletedUser651

Guest
PS.

None of anything matters except this:

I have uncountable numbers of people tell me that if this goes into effect on the US forum they are going to quit. You can't count because every few minutes after another player hears the info, they come back with the same comment. My fellowship is voting on whether to change their name to INNO SUCKS. Players who were happily spending money on this game are vowing never to spend another dime. And players are frantically exchanging contact info with each other so they can go off site and chat and find another game to play.

Do what you want with that info.
 

DeletedUser590

Guest
2. You have implemented this change and dumped it on us.

You did not ask first, you have never bothered to care what we think about the quests. This discussion needs to be had BEFORE the game was destroyed, not after.

I suggest one thing Muf-Muf, that would maybe restore some confidence between the so many upset players and Elvenar's team : remove/patch this stupid (or let's say not thought through enough...) upgrade, then open a real discussion on what could be a clever quest system, and finally implement a playable system.

I sincerely regret the diamonds I spent at the beginning of the game : I trusted Elvenar's team on the basis of FOE I've now been playing for 2 years, I'm affraid I was wrong.
 
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