• Dear forum reader,

    To actively participate on the forum by joining discussions or starting your own threads or topics, you need a game account and to REGISTER HERE!

[Discussion] Behind the Scenes: Battle Redesign

Muf-Muf

Elvenar Team
Muf-Muf, didn't you say a few weeks ago that it was your aim to have a friendly forum where players would feel we could participate and provide feedback? This is important feedback, and if you aren't ignoring it, you're certainly making the impression of ignoring it.
It was not ignored. The concern has been forwarded days ago already.
 

Mink

Well-Known Member
It was not ignored. The concern has been forwarded days ago already.
That's great to hear but it's still baffling why we had to ask so many times before you let us know the concern has been forwarded. There's no way for us to know that unless you tell us.

My other concern - about the off-putting and unappreciative vibe the Elvenar support/QA team emit - still stands.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I am happy with the "nerf" of units.

Those with a quadrillion historic units see that advantage evaporate giving more people an option to compete.
More importantly by nerfing the units they can guarantee they will star dying, especially the elf army has some undying qualities in it. making it hard to kill. the smaller the units the harder to kill. the more opponents the more you are guaranteed at least some will die in any battle.
 

DeletedUser629

Guest
That's great to hear but it's still baffling why we had to ask so many times before you let us know the concern has been forwarded. There's no way for us to know that unless you tell us.
You're right, we should have told this sooner, but we have been very busy lately for various reasons.
 

Jouchka

Well-Known Member
Looking forward to the upgrade. As indicated I scrapped all my troops during the last tournament.
So I don't really care If I'll have 5 squads or 0,5 squads.
Anyhow I don't understand the fuzz about the the squadsize-increase.
Indeed You'll have to build many more units to have a squad. but your squads will really overpower the enemies, which will drastically limit the losses (at least on the map fights). On the tournaments, not really a lot will change, just need to take care about the reballancing. Which will make the battling anyhow more challenging. To me this all looks like a big improvement, so I don't really understand why people wouldn't like it.
The only issue I see is that at first we will be again be overwhelmed with issues that need to be fixed, but at longer term it's just great!
 

benroq

Well-Known Member
Just like jouchka I did the cleaning in my units of fights during the last 2 tournaments, me thus looks forward maintaining the update.

I have a small question, the fights of the tournaments go changed (new units, change of bonus,...), but trading cost go changed? because at the level orc cost are totally disproportionate.
 

madzix

Guest
Looking forward to the upgrade. As indicated I scrapped all my troops during the last tournament.
So I don't really care If I'll have 5 squads or 0,5 squads.
Anyhow I don't understand the fuzz about the the squadsize-increase.
Indeed You'll have to build many more units to have a squad. but your squads will really overpower the enemies, which will drastically limit the losses (at least on the map fights). On the tournaments, not really a lot will change, just need to take care about the reballancing. Which will make the battling anyhow more challenging. To me this all looks like a big improvement, so I don't really understand why people wouldn't like it.
The only issue I see is that at first we will be again be overwhelmed with issues that need to be fixed, but at longer term it's just great!

You are aware that the provs armies will also have their squad size increased, right? Ours will still be outnumbered by the enemy, so we will still have massive losses.
 

DeletedUser651

Guest
your squads will really overpower the enemies, which will drastically limit the losses (at least on the map fights).
I believe you misunderstand.

You will still have a maximum of 5 squads that you can take into battle yourself (enemy armies can be bigger, just like they can be now). The number of enemies per squad will be rebalanced, just like your own number of troops per squad.
If you are very advanced on the world map, you may find encounters tough to beat (just like it is now), but as you progress in the research tree and through the chapters, you will have bigger and better armies to fight with as well, so that should even it out in the end.

The difficulty should be similar, given that you are in the range of battles where we -balancing-wise- expect you to be at a given time.
I would guess that if you are not in the range of battles where they expect you to be. the difficulty may be higher. At least that is what I understood that last sentence to mean. Since they "balancing-wise" seem to expect us all not to have progressed very far (as seen from the orc negotiation debacle), I would guess things could become worse for a lot of us. In fact, I don't remember the last time there was a change that made the game easier for any of us. But who knows, maybe this time will be different.

Here is my prediction:
The battles have been redesigned so they can sell you some kind of unit upgrade or something that will make the new mostly impossible battles possible. If you don't buy the upgrade then you won't be able to do much. Also, you won't have any battles any more that you can get through without losses (as you can in tournaments), unless you get the upgrade. Diamond spenders will find battles better, non diamond spenders will find battles just as difficult or harder. Also, they will severely hamper you if you happen to have progressed farther than "they expect you to be."

That is my prediction. Let's see. Maybe I am totally wrong and they have change the battling so it is fun fun fun and people can win so the majority of people will love fighting!

*going off in search of unicorns now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Muf-Muf

Elvenar Team
You are aware that the provs armies will also have their squad size increased, right? Ours will still be outnumbered by the enemy, so we will still have massive losses.
Whether or not the NPC units in the province will outnumber you depends mainly on the distance of the province, and on the scouting costs for a province. This is also where the Advanced Scouts technologies give an edge: with lower scouting costs, you will also have a lower enemy squad size in the encounters. Also, to continue on this path: this is also why it becomes harder and harder to fight encounters when you are far ahead. The scouting costs will then be a lot higher, and therefore you will face bigger groups of enemies. Note: once scouted, the province's difficulty does not change anymore.

I would guess that if you are not in the range of battles where they expect you to be. the difficulty may be higher.
Yes, also see above for the more precise explanation. :)

they have change the battling so it is fun fun fun and people can win so the majority of people will love fighting!
It is most certainly a goal of ours to make the battles interesting to a larger number of players, and that is exactly what we hope to achieve with these changes. :)
 

Muf-Muf

Elvenar Team
The first package will be in the update to 1.15, yes. When exactly we will release that version is not 100% known yet (we have a few issues with that version that we want to fix before we release it). So it might be that the update is a bit later than usual. :)
 

Katzenprinz

Well-Known Member
@Muf-Muf: Thx :)

I don't think that is really necessary. To me it just seems cheaper to wait for building new ones till after the update as costs will be lower by then. But don't forget you still have to build them which takes time and resources.
 

Fishborne

Member
... with lower scouting costs, you will also have a lower enemy squad size in the encounters. ... Note: once scouted, the province's difficulty does not change anymore.
Thanks Muf-Muf - I think there's an important tip there! So, if we're close to starting a new chapter, we may not want to scout ahead until we're ready to fight?
 

Dony

King of Bugs
i would like to add a few more things

Is it possible to change movement of my units while i click attack on enemy? Some time ago my units used shortest way to the enemy to attack it, now they are using the longest range from that enemy to attack it (if my unit is ranged). This caused so many unneccessary deads on my side just because my ranged unit decided to go next to treant to attack another ranged unit (for example priest), while taking to longest possible range from that priest, where in fact if he just run straight towards priest he would be safe. I guess this change was done due AI, where enemy and my units are using same movement pattern. Some kind of option to switch between this 2 behaviours would be nice.

It would be nice if hovering over unit could show attack range with another color on hexagons, i mean lets say treant can move 2 tiles, and attack 1 tile, it would show 2 tiles around him red hexagons (like now), and 1 (third tile from treant) tile around that with green (whatever different color) hexagon, for sorceress it would be 4 tiles for movement and another 4 (5th-8th tile) tiles for attack, it could even go as far as changing color of unit that can be attacked with some kind of red filter, so every unit it could be attacked with my sorceress would be redish, and this would be also nice for all my units aswell, now we cant even hover over our units to see their movement, this would greatly appreciate people new to combat , since they could see while hovering their own units which enemy units can be attacked with hexagons/filters and vice versa which enemy units can hit my units while hovering over them.

I dont know if i am the only one who find defense bonus totally confusing on unit information. Generally when i see "-" next to bonus it invoke inside me that its negative bonus, something i would never want to get, while its complettly opposite in this game. Either removing that "+" and "-" and let it be numbers alone or changing words (something like damage reduction against:) would be more clear for a lot of people.
 

ag123

Well-Known Member
Is it possible to change movement of my units while i click attack on enemy? Some time ago my units used shortest way to the enemy to attack it, now they are using the longest range from that enemy to attack it (if my unit is ranged). This caused so many unneccessary deads on my side just because my ranged unit decided to go next to treant to attack another ranged unit (for example priest)
THIS!
It makes a battle a lot longer. Check a route -> choose a path in 2 clicks ... Not doing it - which still happens in my case when I click too quickly - makes units die. Just as @Dony said or even worse: block each other. Recenly one of my Sorceressess blocked the other three with some kind of super cool unexpected movement.

Personally I would dream of shorter fights. When I hear people fight in Tournaments for 8 hours daily I feel like something is wrong...
After clearing >300 provinces I cater most of them because of the boredom and auto-fight in Tournaments. I really don't want this in a city builder, sorry. And I say that even though I know how to fight. I just don't want this here.
 
Last edited:

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
So i heard someone say there will be an orc unit coming, i dont see this at all in the announcement tho.
Can it be confirmed or denied that an orc unit will be coming, and if it comes, will it need orc goods to research?
I really dont want to be rebuilding a lot of orc production building when they are suddenly added.

Since there is allready talk about new guest race, i assume the orc research tree is final as it is?
 

Dony

King of Bugs
They confirmed orc unit in last InnoTV episode, my guess is it will be heavy melee for elves, something like goblin riding armored warwolf or something with better movement :) Because right now (after balance change) treant have bonus attack to heavy ranged but its impossible for them to reach them before they are dead.