[Discussion] Behind the Scenes: Battle Redesign

[DeletedUser651]

Bottom line questions from people in my fellowship:

@Muf-Muf, will these new changes make the fights easier to win? If so, how much easier? Will they make the fights harder? Will they be about the same difficulty?

Will it be faster to train the amount of troops we need for a battle?

 

[DeletedUser629]

This is why we have Beta, Bobbykitty. When the update is released we will find out whether fights are easier to win or not. If i would say ''yes'' and it turns out to be the exact opposite, i better stay away from the forums for the next couple of days ^^

 

[DeletedUser1627]

But the three packages will coming together (in an update or in several updates?)?

Because the new guest race is coming (don't try to lie I know everything XD) and If you make 3 update for 3 packages it will be too long for the players!

But for me the new battle system and all the changes around it are very VERY good! I like that!

 

[DeletedUser1231]

I shall have wanted to know if one could have a rough date for him updated who will modify the battles to know how long he(it) stays in us to use our units of fights.

I shall have also wanted to know the reason why our units trained before the update will not undergo a revaluation?
Is it because of a technical concern? Or is to avoid that " old players " keep too many units in reserve?

I suppose that if that had been the opposite (that the units before the update would have been much stronger and less expensive than those produced later) we would have sudden a devaluation of our units.
It is only a supposition which concerns only me well on

 

[DeletedUser1677]

I'm sorry if I just missed where it tells. But that "pentagon" illustration, when will it be relevant? From what date is that part of the update "active"?

And from what date, would the troops be cheaper?

 

[Dony]

once the battle redesign patch hit servers it will be active, date to be announced

 

[DeletedUser1677]

once the battle redesign patch hit servers it will be active, date to be announced

Thank you, then I will look out for release notes

 

[DeletedUser118]

But the three packages will coming together (in an update or in several updates?)?

Because the new guest race is coming (don't try to lie I know everything XD) and If you make 3 update for 3 packages it will be too long for the players!

But for me the new battle system and all the changes around it are very VERY good! I like that!

I don't think they will come together. Why would they divide it into three parts if it was released on the same day? That would make no sense.

Besides what if the new guest race will show up after the battle update? Then it wouldn't matter how long they take.

 

[DeletedUser1095]

Those flapping fairy wings are epilepsy inducing and migraine producing. Please give players a way to turn off the flapping. This isn't normal game grousing. I am serious about this being a medical issue. In the few seconds of watching the inno tv, I am already triggered. Seriously, please. I have a very bad migraine now and I am extremely queasy. This isn't a minor thing.

Could a staffmember please acknowledge that this is being passed along to the devs to put in the priority lane? It isn't a minor thing at all. Those twirly observatory things are also too much - I have to look away immediately whenever I find myself in a city that has one - and lord help me if there's more than one! Cringing away from the screen in nauseated pain is not an okay result from a game.

 

[DeletedUser1095]

Light Melee: strong against archers & mages | weak against heavy melee & heavy archer
Heavy Archer: strong against archer & light melee | weak against heavy melee & mage
Heavy Melee: strong against heavy archer & light melee | weak against mage & archer
Mage: strong against heavy melee & heavy archer | weak against melee & archer
Archer: strong against mage & heavy melee | weak against melee & heavy archer

Thank you, Natzish, for putting this in a readable form. I apologise for responding so late; I truly appreciate your "reinterpretation" of the chart.

 

[Muf-Muf]

@Muf-Muf, will these new changes make the fights easier to win? If so, how much easier? Will they make the fights harder? Will they be about the same difficulty?

The difficulty should be similar, given that you are in the range of battles where we -balancing-wise- expect you to be at a given time.

One Question will the research for the dogs as an human player then change to a mortar research or will humans still have the better dogs?

We will have to rearrange quite a big number of technologies. The current Cerberus research doesn't necessarily have to become the new spot for the Mortar unit.

Why not introduce the merc camp in chapter two for the dogs, and have the merc camp research in chapter seven be just a research for the new unit?

We couldn't pull the Mercenary Camp forward, as it's tied to the Fairy Units, which become available only in Chapter VII.

If the programming requires 2 additional buildings,there's no reason they couldn't be 1x1 each...Problem solved.

Or we could give you unlimited city space, but we won't do that either. Sorry.

- there will be new training grounds for dogs: I am an elven player and I don't want to have such ugly looking dogs in my city many hours of playing before the orcish guest-race comes in, especially not trained in the fairy-style mercenary camp

The Cerberus unit will be trained in the Training Grounds, which is a different building than the already existing Mercenary Camp.

- I understand the sense of using the existing units before rebalancing (although this is a hint for degradation altogether) when they are cheaper to build afterwards - but I want to have an amount of units as stock, so I can fight provinces and tournament, when I have the time for it (yes fighting in this game is "time-eating") and the changes at squadsize reduces also my amount of stock (at my level to an third), for me this is a reason against using up my existing units

If you want to keep your current units and not use them that is of course perfectly fine. You can and we won't stop you from doing that. Just be aware that your current amount of units will fill fewer squads after the first package has been released, which means that you could potentially fight fewer battles with them. But, as said: if you want to keep your units, you of course can.

PS: Sorry for bundle 4 different aspects in one post - if requested, I post each aspect in extra answer

That's perfectly fine - we'd rather have this than "double posts" (means that you post multiple times in a row).

I'm sorry if I just missed where it tells. But that "pentagon" illustration, when will it be relevant? From what date is that part of the update "active"?

You will be able to see this on Beta very soon already. If all goes to plan (and we cannot say that for certain until the update has been released), we hope to see the first changes with version 1.15 that is scheduled to come to Beta next week.

 

[DeletedUser651]

Could a staffmember please acknowledge that this is being passed along to the devs to put in the priority lane? It isn't a minor thing at all. Those twirly observatory things are also too much - I have to look away immediately whenever I find myself in a city that has one - and lord help me if there's more than one! Cringing away from the screen in nauseated pain is not an okay result from a game.

Thanks for all the other answers to questions. Could we get a response on this please? A simple way to turn off the animations would fix the issue. Have the devs been informed that this is an issue?

 

[DeletedUser1345]

I am about a week away from finishing the orc chapter. Part 3 of the battle system alteration is introducing a new orc unit, which will involve a new research. With part one not yet introduced, part three will not be coming before I finish what is currently, the orc chapter.
Will this new research for an orc unit be requiring orc goods?

 

[DeletedUser1548]

We couldn't pull the Mercenary Camp forward, as it's tied to the Fairy Units, which become available only in Chapter VII.

I still don't see the problem.
We have Barracks at the beginning of the game and then we research new units all the time. Why is it any different?

 

[DeletedUser1345]

It is the dispute between process and results. The rejected option is to have the merc camp be an early research and have the merc camp research be replaced by the blossom mage research. The issue with that is players that have built the merc camp already will be able to use it without having performed the research. Like being able to eat your cake before finishing your vegetables. It all digests the same in the end, but if vegetables are not eaten first, they will not be eaten at all.
I was assuming that the research for the kennel, or whatever it called, would eventually become mandatory, so it would all work out in the end. If it was one building instead of two, it would give a temporary advantage for the players that have had that building sitting useless.
The option that is going to be introduced to us will be like the magic academy. It will see no future development. There will be a new orc unit, but it would make as much sense to have it affected by one building as much as the other. It can be argued that apples and oranges are different. It can be argued that apples and oranges can be carried in the same basket.
All that matters is that it is their swing-set we are playing on. We either accept it, or find somewhere else to go.

 

[DeletedUser519]

Could we get a response on this please? A simple way to turn off the animations would fix the issue. Have the devs been informed that this is an issue?

Open up the advanced settings (lower right) and set your city graphic quality to low
That turns off all the animations

 

[DeletedUser651]

I wish it did Andrew. I have all my settings on low and I see all the animations in battles.

 

[DeletedUser1067]

I hope I have this wrong, but it sounds like the plan is to unveil the shiny new combat system by nerfing all the stored units? If I'm going to go from 50 squads suddenly to 5 squads, it doesn't really matter how nice the new thing is since I'll be starting with such a negative impression. Why shoot yourselves in the foot? I know it's more work, but if you want a positive impression, take the extra time to run a data fix on the stored units to bring them back up to the same number of squads.

 

[DeletedUser1548]

I hope I have this wrong, but it sounds like the plan is to unveil the shiny new combat system by nerfing all the stored units? If I'm going to go from 50 squads suddenly to 5 squads, it doesn't really matter how nice the new thing is since I'll be starting with such a negative impression. Why shoot yourselves in the foot? I know it's more work, but if you want a positive impression, take the extra time to run a data fix on the stored units to bring them back up to the same number of squads.

Wanted to say that I personally can live with an announced change but that's still another example of Inno's inconsistency: gains are SOOO great (even if it's 500 supplies for a scouted province) and the player lossess are... Oh, well. Fine? Warning doesn't change anything because 'advising' players to kill all their soldier is still a loss of supplies (for unnecessarily relics, in harder fights).

I'm pointing it out but again, I don't really care... and I know my opinion doesn't mean anything. So... Have a nice day!

 

[DeletedUser1095]

Open up the advanced settings (lower right) and set your city graphic quality to low
That turns off all the animations

That does work for the problem of the twirly observatories, but as Bobbykitty notes that won't help with the battle problems. What's even more distressing is the staff here persistently ignoring a series of courteous questions from affected players.

Muf-Muf, didn't you say a few weeks ago that it was your aim to have a friendly forum where players would feel we could participate and provide feedback? This is important feedback, and if you aren't ignoring it, you're certainly making the impression of ignoring it.

I've played several Inno games and the support/QA here is hands down the most unfriendly and off-putting I've ever encountered. You should really spend some time with the FoE Beta team, who manage to maintain good relations with their beta testers, and even let them feel appreciated.