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[Discussion] Behind the Scenes: Battle Redesign

Grace

Well-Known Member
I'm hoping Muf-Muf or Goryn or one of the other mods are monitoring this thread. I have a question:

Did the game devs ensure that battles would be achievable up to the number of provinces required to fill the grid (beyond expansions given in the tech tree, etc) at each chapter in the research tree? If not, what is the expectation for # of purchased expansions so that players stay within "winnable" fights in province exploration?
 

Mink

Well-Known Member
this is stupid
totally stupid, bad design, wrong choices, idiot decisions

first, game designers should stop pushing us around to force us through the path they have decided;
if there is an alternate way in the game design, we will find it because we are players, and that is how we work, and should this alternate path exist, it is because of game design in the first place, so we should not be punished for our actions.

second : the way enemy troops on the map evolve according to our progress on this same map was flawed, we saw it in the last video from Inno TV, where a nice diagram explained that enemy troops were getting stronger faster than our squad size evolved; has it been corrected ? I don't think so.

third : once again, we are punished for having played enthusiastically; we have conquered/negociated provinces because this is a frigging city builder where building space is paramount and we needed the expansions ... now we find out that because of our "excess" in scouting on the map, enemy forces are way stronger than ours; we are punished a second time for playing the game;

I would be delighted if game designers would be kind enough to indicate precisely what they expect form us instead of continuously letting us hurt ourselves by hitting brick walls in the dark; in the mean time, do not expect any money from me.
+1 to everything Philplessis said. The new battle scheme is a ridiculous fail.

Three encounters in ring 13. Perhaps there are possible solutions.
Magic Dust - 2 Squads of 557 Rigid Steinlings, 6 squads of 557 Devilish Enchantress, 2 squads of 2229 Feral Wild Archers
Planks - Squad of 630 Ferocious Swamp Monsters, 2 squads of 3782 Feral Wild Archers, squad of 1891 Brutal Ancient Orcs
Marble - Squad 459 Crazy Cannoneers, squad of 688 Brave Knights, 6 squads of 2752 feral wild archers.

All researches have been done, so using squad size at 1140, how are these fights to be approached?
Goryn, you're the one who said you'd teach us all how to fight and enjoy it, right?
Please don't keep Spinster's excellent question waiting - we all want to know!

I'm somehow fond of my little city but less and less so over time, as the game keeps being made worse and worse.

You're right, we should have told this sooner, but we have been very busy lately for various reasons.
[searching hard for anything like a "sorry" in that statement] Good of you to acknowledge that communication is falling short around here
 
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benroq

Well-Known Member
I have just made my first fights since the update (on a province of the ring 12) and as everybody I did not manage to win a single fight.
I have nevertheless to try with several combinations but it was impossible while before the update on this kind province I could rather easily win one or 2 fights with few losses.:(

Thus I ask myself the following question, why did the fights become impossible to win?

- Is it because of a bug? I do not think because otherwise a moderator would have come for a long time to tell us these problems are of in a bug and because everything will be put back in place in the next update.

- Was it voluntary and if yes why?
Certainly not to allow has players' maximum to fight.
I suppose that it is to prevent the players who have too many provinces to gain additional extensions.
If it is the case I meant that that shall not walk because it has been one moment since the advanced players negotiate all their fights, if you really want to block us I advise you more to increase trading cost in 100 000 the goods of every era for every fights like that everybody will be blocked.
This is good on the irony:p

I can say that I appreciate the update concerning the training of units (even if it favors the players regular rather than the players occasional), but I cannot believe that you go to leave the fights such as they are today.

If a moderator crosses here and has information it would really be good that he comes to tell us if the fights are going to change or if the change of yesterday is definitive.

I looks forward to the tournaments of this evening to see if we can again fight on elvenar.
 

Urvalsandal

Well-Known Member
Dear devs, I have already gone through milions (or less :) ) of battles. With all those tournaments, they can be very time-consuming. If you could speed up manual battle a bit.. maybe a lot.
 

Jasper

Guest
I see that for the tournament provinces the enemy now also can have more/less then 5 squads just like in the normal provinces !? :( Is this deliberate or is this a mistake ? :confused:
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
Well I am having some success in fights but the losses are massive (usually 1/2 the army at least) and sadly troops still take a long time to build so it slows the learning ability down.

On some mixed fights I basically have to kamikaze troops designed to take out a certain type before the enemy specialised in killing my kamikazes gets them. If I can eliminate all but one enemy type leaving my specialised troops for that type then I tend to win. Getting to that point is hard.
 
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DeletedUser629

Guest
Goryn, can you post your tips for us? You had said you were excited for this change. Have you had a chance to play and what recommendations can you give us?
I was excited about this change because i'm a hardcore fighter. truth is though, that my units are dying faster than i can blink my eyes. Will do some more testing tomorrow. So far, it seems the enemy does a lot more damage than before the update while my units do little damage in return. The fact that the priest now has a range of only 5 instead of being able to hit the enemy on the entire field is something i don't like, and i say this a Goryn the player, not Goryn the moderator.
 

DeletedUser629

Guest
I'm hoping Muf-Muf or Goryn or one of the other mods are monitoring this thread. I have a question:

Did the game devs ensure that battles would be achievable up to the number of provinces required to fill the grid (beyond expansions given in the tech tree, etc) at each chapter in the research tree? If not, what is the expectation for # of purchased expansions so that players stay within "winnable" fights in province exploration?
We monitor every thread, even if we don't immediately reply. Before the update, it took advanced players 2.5/3 days to scout one single province. Given the fact that at that time you will need 8 or 9 to unlock an expansion, i doubt it the devs had it mind they needed to make it a lot harder for players to conquer provinces so they'd buy expansions.
 

DeletedUser651

Guest
. Given the fact that at that time you will need 8 or 9 to unlock an expansion, i doubt it the devs had it mind they needed to make it a lot harder for players to conquer provinces so they'd buy expansions.
They seem to be close to making it impossible to play without buying expansions. The people with orc negotiation issue won't be able to win any of these fights, so negotiation is impossible as is fighting. I am now facing 3 day 9 hour scouting times and it will only keep climbing. I have no chance of ever winning one of these new fights. Not if they kill 1/3 of my best fighters against them and I kill 1/10th of their squads.

Is something out of whack badly with these fights, or do they really intend to keep it like this?

I see that for the tournament provinces the enemy now also can have more/less then 5 squads just like in the normal provinces !? :( Is this deliberate or is this a mistake ? :confused:
I have the same question.

edit: omg. I can't even win the first battle in the first province of the tournament!! I just lost all my troops. Is it because I have scouted "too" far and will face harder enemies than others from now on?

My Elder Treants have become ants. Regular tiny little weak ants. They swipe a dog and barely make a dent. Even the sorc IIIs don't go down. Poor treants.

May we have a moment of silence for these once mighty creatures. sniff sniff.
 
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bobbipiazza

Guest
does this means that if you scout a province just before you reseach the next advanced scout tech it will give you a harder battlefield that if you wait, do the reseach of the next advanced scout tech and then scout it? (same province)

Of course. This, in order to ensure that even skilled fighters can't gain provinces...thus continuing the emphasis on purchased expansions.
 

character

Guest
We monitor every thread, even if we don't immediately reply. Before the update, it took advanced players 2.5/3 days to scout one single province. Given the fact that at that time you will need 8 or 9 to unlock an expansion, i doubt it the devs had it mind they needed to make it a lot harder for players to conquer provinces so they'd buy expansions.
Advanced scouts yo!
 
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Dony

King of Bugs
first off thank you for removing that exponencial increase of damage per damaged unit in last hotfix (at least in tournaments thats the case) will greatly reduce our losses

second not related to balance but level 2 looks exactly like level 1 in tournament just a bit higher enemy squad size, which will make from this too much repetitive overtime, no variety at all, everything is same. in future when you add units to each category this can be better tho.
 

madzix

Guest
Can we have a confirmation that the huge nerf of the armories was premeditated or are they going to rebalance the amount of troops the armories allow to train to be in line with the increase of the squad size and bulwark rebalancing?
 

Grace

Well-Known Member
I was excited about this change because i'm a hardcore fighter. truth is though, that my units are dying faster than i can blink my eyes. Will do some more testing tomorrow. So far, it seems the enemy does a lot more damage than before the update while my units do little damage in return. The fact that the priest now has a range of only 5 instead of being able to hit the enemy on the entire field is something i don't like, and i say this a Goryn the player, not Goryn the moderator.
Thanks, the honesty is very much appreciated!
 

torchII

Well-Known Member
Well, as many others, I used to fight the tournaments with 3-4/5 units surviving. I usually managed, on auto-fight, to get to lvl 2-3 in 6-10 provinces. I was still far from getting awards but the relics were worth it and it was worth it.
Now, with mortality 3-4/5 or worse, I cannot see the point. I tried some fights manually but beating the selection of eight different units with five weak ones does not work. What with the slogan repeated here many times "you can beat even stronger units if ...(you pick up your units correctly)" ???? I certainly cannot now. Not even with Monastery on 12.
Fighting can only be fun if you (can) win most of the battles, that is the rule of fighting in all games. Something went wrong here, it is NOT fun anymore.
What did you say was the improvement????
 

Urvalsandal

Well-Known Member
My city here on beta server is in pre-dwarven era. I have tried a few battles in the tournament and I have beaten all my enemies on autofight with minimal casualties. Is it possible that more advanced players have more difficult tournament?