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Deleted messages Issue

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Yeah, in my FS we upgrade 4-5 a day, so not nearly 80+ messages a day, but honestly? If your FS is making that many swap posts a day it might be time to consider a better system...
give me a better system that works as easy as a swap thread, somthng that does not need gouverning or external spreadsheets.
Something thats simple enough that it does not require a half hour or more explanation when a new person arrives.

This is why swap threads are so popular, it's simple, easy and has near zero maintenance, I don't wat to be bothered by something complicated.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
give me a better system that works as easy as a swap thread, somthng that does not need gouverning or external spreadsheets.
Something thats simple enough that it does not require a half hour or more explanation when a new person arrives.

This is why swap threads are so popular, it's simple, easy and has near zero maintenance, I don't wat to be bothered by something complicated.
Net Zero threads.
The simple explanation is that you self level, but your FS members buy the chests for KP equal to the KP payouts first.
This means no one outside of the group can take chests for a profit, and you always get a 20% discount when leveling your wonders.
Even less work than a regular swap thread.

  • A message is sent to other members informing them what your next wonder choice is e.g. "Net0 Blooming Trader"
  • Readers of the message donate to get chests at zero profit by donating the exact amount of KP that the top available chest will award.
  • The member who reserves the final 5 KP chest of your wonder responds to your message with "ALL CHESTS TAKEN"
  • Anyone who sees a thread with the line "ALL CHESTS TAKEN" can delete it without even opening it.
  • Fill your own wonder at whatever speed you like.
Should only take 2 messages per wonder, no spreadsheet, and should only take 5 minutes to explain.

Example:
Crazy, Dave, Mike and Soggy are in a Net0 swap
  1. Crazy sends a message to Dave, Mike, and Soggy saying "Net0 My Golden Abyss"
  2. Dave logs in sees the message and opens Crazy's Abyss seeing both chests are available, one for 10 KP, and one for 5 KP.
  3. Dave donates 10 KP
  4. Mike logs in next and sees the message. He reserves the last chest by donating 5 KP
  5. Mike then opens Crazy's message and replies "ALL CHESTS TAKEN"
  6. Soggy logs in and sees the message "ALL CHESTS TAKEN". He simply deletes it without even opening it.
  7. Crazy fills up the abyss whenever he wants.
Note: At any point, any member can post their next wonder choice, there's no lineup or list, they all happen at the same time. So step 3.5 above could easily be Dave sending a message to the other 3 "Net0 My Monastery" in which case when Mike logs in he would grab the top chest in Crazy's AND Dave's wonders.

Even if you have all 25 members in the swap, and each one has enough KP to level a wonder every week, that's just 25 total messages with 1 response to each message.

I recommend trying it out with just 8-10 people (you must have at least as many active players as chests).
You don't even have to stop using the other swaps while trying it out, you just have to pick different wonders.
 
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Karvest

Well-Known Member
It's that simple only until someone mess up donation (for example 2 members invest same amount at the same time) or someone outside the system kicks in to get runes and shift members out of their chests. Recovering from such situations (and avoiding them) is not hard, but it's definitely easier with some additional entities like google sheet.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Recovering from such situations (and avoiding them) is not hard
Indeed, it's pretty straightforward to correct an error: Whoever ends up being owed the KP due to a same-time mistake just gets the KP back from the owner on their next wonder.
E.G.
You and crazy wizard both donate 70 KP to get the top chest worth 70 KP at the same time on my GA.
But Crazy does it 1 second faster than you so you only get the 50 KP chest.
For you to get your 20 KP back you just tell me what your next wonder will be before telling anyone else and I'll buy your top chest for Net-20
Problem solved.

As for outsiders trying to buy a rune for 50-70 KP, dealing with that is pretty simple too:
You just do the same as the above example for each member who got bumped down.
Really though, how often does that happen? In my FS with Wonder societies, it would also be possible for an outsider to buy a rune like that, but no one has in the last 1,000 wonders that we've upgraded.

It's not perfect, but for a FS like @CrazyWizard 's it's potentially better than an old-style swap in almost every way.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
All that adjustments are hard to do if you have only one thread to deal with it.
In our variation of that system we use google sheet with the list of AWs being currently worked out. It helps with avoiding simultaneous investments for the same chests (as you write down your choice before actual investment). Allow better planning of investments (no need to dump KP into AW that would be upgraded few weeks later, but those members who need specific runes can stake them out). Give a good overview of which AWs are currently waiting for your donations without scrolling through ingame mailbox when you come home after working whole day or back from weekend. Hosts a descriptive list of who owe whom and why.
Dealing with all that stuff without third party (sheet in our case) would be very tricky.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
All that adjustments are hard to do if you have only one thread to deal with it.
In our variation of that system we use google sheet with the list of AWs being currently worked out. It helps with avoiding simultaneous investments for the same chests (as you write down your choice before actual investment). Allow better planning of investments (no need to dump KP into AW that would be upgraded few weeks later, but those members who need specific runes can stake them out). Give a good overview of which AWs are currently waiting for your donations without scrolling through ingame mailbox when you come home after working whole day or back from weekend. Hosts a descriptive list of who owe whom and why.
Dealing with all that stuff without third party (sheet in our case) would be very tricky.
I remember wonder society as a google sheet indeed which is marvelous but not "easy"

As for your suggestion, thats what I did when I filled my last 50 wonderlevels or whatever.
Since I can "swamp" the threads with post on my own, and since I am not short of KP I just called the chests in chat. leaving 10 (5 and 4 at 10/5/5)profit for all members then fill the wonder myself with a 1000-2000KP a second later.

that indeed is also a fine solution, and if someone pinched in between (it happened once) I just ditched the difference in there wonders so no loss was occured. I got plenty "free" KP.

It's indeed also a fine solution for an established fellowship
 

Alcaro

Well-Known Member
I don't like Swap system at all but it's better than nothing. Here in Beta we have those. I took the task of changing them once they hit 100+ posts. I noticed that when one of my fellows lost one thread and someone else opened a new one and also posted on the old to delete it, he got them both. I also noticed it with some other threads, I deleted them, someone posted and I got them back. I honestly can't say I mind that. But a modern mail system should be implemented. I think it's the time. Are great suggestions in this thread, Inno, make your move and bring a useful mail!

Btw, Wonder Society System uses 2 threads only and once the targets are posted it will takes a while until all are completed, but for the participants it's better. There no need to post in several threads and check if you donated the right amount or if you got what you should get. That's why here in Beta I sit on gazillion KP instants because I hate to use those threads. I have to gather all my strength to participate in swaps.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Original "wonder society" with google sheet like the one on elvengems is a cancer to maintain, this one is much simpler and doesn't require maintainer.

Thats why I never considered it an option at all,

I would consider Soggy's option, it has it's flaws and limitations but it's clean enough to be considered.
As said I used a variation of it myself as I simply had to many KP that would oust every other member in the swap threads and it would be me vs everyone else, so that was not an option for me.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Ok some $@!%%^ made an account and send me messages with offensive text in the title and messages.
So I reported it and deleted the message.

But every time that piece of crap responds to the thread it pops back up, including the offensive title you cannot remove.
1611578095004.png

I have no clue what he send the second time but I presumme it aint pretty (translate: This message has been hidden since you ignore this player)

Another reason why this move is pretty poor. now there is no option anymore to block harrasment.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Ok some $@!%%^ made an account and send me messages with offensive text in the title and messages.
So I reported it and deleted the message.

But every time that piece of crap responds to the thread it pops back up, including the offensive title you cannot remove.
View attachment 8598
I have no clue what he send the second time but I presumme it aint pretty (translate: This message has been hidden since you ignore this player)

Another reason why this move is pretty poor. now there is no option anymore to block harrasment.
Totally agree on this. I thought I had brought up the point about preventing escalating conflict. If someone is annoying you and being a jerk in the messaging system, you just delete, not any more.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
So, what's happening with this. I'm trying to get threads that exclude people that don't want this and I'm being told that it shouldn't be a big deal to delete, but it is driving me crazy to always have the red telling your there are messages, when it is just kp threads.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
I have no clue what he send the second time but I presumme it aint pretty (translate: This message has been hidden since you ignore this player)

Another reason why this move is pretty poor. now there is no option anymore to block harrasment.
So, you block someone, not just delete the message, and you get the messages saying you don't get to read them. Way, way, way too much wrong with that. It's bad enough that you can't just drop out of a message thread anymore. but to get messages from blocked people is totally wrong. Bad Inno, bad dog.

Like many, I dropped out of AW KP threads. Every couple of days I had to drop out of one or two again because it had gotten recreated. That made me give a little frown, but wasn't so bad. If they came back 10 times a day, it would really tick me off.

It could be a shame if the thread was something you were interested in and accidentally deleted it. You then had to notice and ask for it to be bumped if it was an FS wide message. However, the solution Inno has implemented does not properly address the issue.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
@Marindor has this been reverted to the old way?
As a test I deleted our WS thread and had my AM post in it. I did n'to get it back in my messages despite several refreshes.
Conducted a second test with another FS-wide message, and it's gone again, does not return.
 
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