Discussion Crafting on Beta

[DeletedUser1657]

Can you guess what the fair answer probably is?

Probably not because we don't know the value the devs place on the spell. When you look at individual and fellowship rewards it is very clear they value certain spells more than others. We see the same with visit chests and what spells are in there.

It would be great to see them turn up in tournament prizes whether it was individual or fellowship. There are pros and cons to both, individual rewards has some potential to be farmed depending on where they are placed which might not be desired. Fellowship rewards can be limited more and probably very predictable from their data as to how many might be given out each week.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Probably not because we don't know the value the devs place on the spell.

Sure you can. It's "not too easy, not too hard." The answer to most questions is moderation.

Besides, If they replace some spells with CC what we are really talking about is MA time. The CC is a 3 relic spell, so if 3 relics worth of spells are replaced for each CC, then it's not that big of a deal, and just gives some more variety in rewards.
A 10 chest player in a 10 chest tournament currently gets 30-40 spells
I'm pretty confident that replacing 10-20% of spells with CC spells will not unduly imbalance the game.

Like I said earlier, it's very easy for the devs to start with just a small change and increase it if needed.
Promoting the new feature of crafting by giving just a couple of spells in the low end of tournaments makes sense.
Giving a couple more CC spells to promote the tournament at the high end also makes sense.

 

[CrazyWizard]

a lvl 2 academy makes 1 CC every 19.5 hours, so thats max 8-9 a week. if you can get an equal amount of that in tournament (or even more as suggested) i wouldnt see a point in upgrading the academy...

Because a better MA gives more spellshards.
It's not the Catalist spells that are the plug on how mcuh you can do with the building, it's actually the spell fragments.
Each lvl of the academy increased the spell fragment gain by 25%.

 

[edeba]

They should be somewhat rare and have somewhat of a game play challenge to get them and encourage better play. The suggestions for having some on the higher provinces encourages better tournament play and with that comes getting more tournament chest. Putting them in each of the first 6 chests is a massive give away. Putting one in chest 5 would give one fairly easy one to get. I don't think any should be a give away.

Easy for someone in a 10 chest-every-week FS to say
You want them in just chest 8&10
@conqueror9 wants them in just chests 1-6

Can you guess what the fair answer probably is?

This I like. Right now the 3rd star on 10+ gives relics and a rune. I'd trade that rune on #10,20 &30 for a CC

 

[SoggyShorts]

They should be somewhat rare and have somewhat of a game play challenge to get them and encourage better play.

This is impossible. They aren't special. It's not like blueprints: absolutely everyone can make the CC spell in the MA.

The idea is that instead of getting 10 PoP 5 EE and 3 MM spells a player would get a couple less PoP and a couple of CC.

Like I said 2 Categories
1. Encourage Crafting (get them hooked by introducing them to the CC spell)
2. Encourage the Tournament (A way to get more crafting stuff by swapping some of the PoP)

 

[DeletedUser2561]

What annoys me most about the crafting feature is the randomness of the mythical object. The whole game draws its fascination (atleast for me) from being based on careful planning, buildup and optimization.

There are some random elements in fighting (enemy setup, terrains, and damage numbers), but a single win or lose does not change the overall costs of a city expansion or a tournaments much; plus the randomness can be countered to a certain extend with effort: careful selection of own troops and manual fighting. It is my own decision if I am too lazy to fight manually or at least check the terrain in advance.

The third Grand prize of major events is sort of random - you do not know exactly how many double days you must take to get it, but can calculate it roughly, and if you fail, you do know that it was your own fault, because you could have been less risky and less greedy on single days.

Daily prizes of events are also random, and I usually end up getting 50% more daily prizes on my most successful town versus my least. This already causes a lot of bickering among players, but I can live with a difference of 8 versus 12 in spring/autumn or 10 versus 15 in summer/winter.

Now you are introducing a new "exciting" feature, and after a whole week of stitching minor things together, you open op a mythical bubble and either celebrate a new Venars Rock, or wreck your keyboard because you already have enough time instants. This is a 0 versus 1 situation, much worse than daily prizes. And this is supposed to be the Grand prize of crafting. Remember: "crafting", not "gambling". If you complete the effort and do everything you can, but then fail on one single final die roll, that feels like the game shows you the middle finger. This does NOT fit with an optimization game.

So my request would be: Get rid of that randomness or at least reduce it to reasonable levels.

A reasonable level would be like: Make "Grand prize" recipes, which cost swirly mist (or whatever that currency is called) instead of producing it, and those recipes create Venars Rock or whatever greater prizes you are willing to give out. At most one grand recipe active after any reroll. So whether you get Venars Rock would still be based on randomness (the recipe may or may not appear for a while), but at least you do not lose all your stuff trying to get it.

 

[DeletedUser2576]

What annoys me most about the crafting feature is the randomness of the mythical object. The whole game draws its fascination (atleast for me) from being based on careful planning, buildup and optimization.

There are some random elements in fighting (enemy setup, terrains, and damage numbers), but a single win or lose does not change the overall costs of a city expansion or a tournaments much; plus the randomness can be countered to a certain extend with effort: careful selection of own troops and manual fighting. It is my own decision if I am too lazy to fight manually or at least check the terrain in advance.

The third Grand prize of major events is sort of random - you do not know exactly how many double days you must take to get it, but can calculate it roughly, and if you fail, you do know that it was your own fault, because you could have been less risky and less greedy on single days.

Daily prizes of events are also random, and I usually end up getting 50% more daily prizes on my most successful town versus my least. This already causes a lot of bickering among players, but I can live with a difference of 8 versus 12 in spring/autumn or 10 versus 15 in summer/winter.

Now you are introducing a new "exciting" feature, and after a whole week of stitching minor things together, you open op a mythical bubble and either celebrate a new Venars Rock, or wreck your keyboard because you already have enough time instants. This is a 0 versus 1 situation, much worse than daily prizes. And this is supposed to be the Grand prize of crafting. Remember: "crafting", not "gambling". If you complete the effort and do everything you can, but then fail on one single final die roll, that feels like the game shows you the middle finger. This does NOT fit with an optimization game.

So my request would be: Get rid of that randomness or at least reduce it to reasonable levels.

A reasonable level would be like: Make "Grand prize" recipes, which cost swirly mist (or whatever that currency is called) instead of producing it, and those recipes create Venars Rock or whatever greater prizes you are willing to give out. At most one grand recipe active after any reroll. So whether you get Venars Rock would still be based on randomness (the recipe may or may not appear for a while), but at least you do not lose all your stuff trying to get it.

I agree the randomness is really bad because you get something really good or really bad. It's hard to get the objects so i would prefer less randomness or prices that are similar worth but 500 diamonds vs 50 relics is a total win or a total loss^^

 

[CrazyWizard]

I have to agree with @Turbina and @Syonis

I have to agree with them unfortunatly.
The potential prize is awesome, but the gamble is aweful.

On the other hand since you never granted us the shards and spells to really test te feature we really can't comment on it either.
How many of these mystical object are there? is there a finite number of chests or do they rotate like quests?

In the latter part it's still to random to my liking but at least you get multiple tries to aquire it.
If its the first then the mystical object are a nightmare.

 

[Dony]

they rotate, not sure if its randomly rotate or its set order

 

[SoggyShorts]

I am not looking forward to this roll. The one with 50 relics or 500 diamonds that someone mentioned would be even worse though.

they rotate, not sure if its randomly rotate or its set order

I had venarsII, then the one above. Did anyone get a different order?

 

[DeletedUser2561]

@CrazyWizard: Others have pointed out that the limiting factor of crafting will probably be fragments, not time. So even a "multiple tries rotation" will be one or two mystical object per week only until you have burned through your stockpile of old junk, and slow down significantly after that. Which means that long-time players can get a rotation-like feeling, while the others depend on the die role of (just guessing) maybe one crafting grand prize per month. Which would technically be a rotation, but surely not feel like it (I do play for over a year now but I have NOT acquired the stockpiles that long-time players have posted here).

@Soggy: Maybe he was mistaken and meant "500 diamonds or 50 AW points"

 

[Kersepitje]

View attachment 4881
I am not looking forward to this roll. The one with 50 relics or 500 diamonds that someone mentioned would be even worse though.

I had venarsII, then the one above. Did anyone get a different order?

Maybe this can help you to figuer it out:
that was also my second chests on the internal test server. But that could be coincidence, i dont know any more then you do
And congrats on being able to fill that first chest so fast, wouldnt have tought anyone could do it that fast without super mod powers

 

[DeletedUser2576]

@CrazyWizard: @Soggy: Maybe he was mistaken and meant "500 diamonds or 50 AW points"

Nope there is one with 500 Diamonds, some KP or 50 Relics.

As far as i know they objects have a specific order but i could be misstaken, but everyone had the venars rock one as first one and they are labeled
"mysticalobject_a" and so on so i assume it's a specific order.

 

[CrazyWizard]

@CrazyWizard: Others have pointed out that the limiting factor of crafting will probably be fragments, not time. So even a "multiple tries rotation" will be one or two mystical object per week only until you have burned through your stockpile of old junk, and slow down significantly after that. Which means that long-time players can get a rotation-like feeling, while the others depend on the die role of (just guessing) maybe one crafting grand prize per month. Which would technically be a rotation, but surely not feel like it (I do play for over a year now but I have NOT acquired the stockpiles that long-time players have posted here).

@Soggy: Maybe he was mistaken and meant "500 diamonds or 50 AW points"

I think if you manage 1 mystical object a month it's a fair number.
With scrolling trough those mystical chests I did not mean scrolling trough them in the speed of scrolling trough quests, but an active player might be able to do it twice a year?

 

[SoggyShorts]

And congrats on being able to fill that first chest so fast, wouldnt have tought anyone could do it that fast without super mod powers

Thanks, I just got super lucky and had the Vallorian Vallor show up 5x. Had to use some timers on my MA because even cooking CC 24/7 wasn't enough.

 

[CrazyWizard]

already rolling out to the EN server

I wonder when the rest of live can jump on this.

 

[SoggyShorts]

already rolling out to the EN server
I wonder when the rest of live can jump on this.

Aw that's really unfortunate.
I was hoping for another round of responses from inno on player feedback

 

[Dony]

at least its 8 hours on live instead of 48 from announcement back then

 

[Heymrdiedier]

Thanks, I just got super lucky and had the Vallorian Vallor show up 5x. Had to use some timers on my MA because even cooking CC 24/7 wasn't enough.

lucky you, i hope that this doesnt mean you wont see it again for a whole year now... i only had A vallor show up so far and crafted it straight away. i had enough CC for it since ive been making those 24/7 (with a lvl 2 academy) and nothing popped up that was really good so far.

Aw that's really unfortunate.
I was hoping for another round of responses from inno on player feedback

the announcement says they get it exclusively, im guessing they would like some more feedback from playerbase in general.
Personally it wouldnt suprise me to see that the crafting stuff gets boosted in a few months, datamining might tell them different stories then what forum gives as feedback.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

when i first read the word crafting (without reading the whole description) i kinda assumed we would be making something to increase the stats of our current buildings. like you could craft a 'mana producing star' that if applied to 1 mana producing building, it increases the output of mana of that building by 10% (or it increase duration of its production, etc.... possibilities enough).
I didnt expect it to be making something that i allready have or already can get quite easily.
Since it doesnt have an unique thing (well maybe the magnificient mage multiplier etc from now on) i dont think the crafting will be popular very long.
But that of course is just my point of view