Chapter 16

[Maillie]

I am finally finishing Chapter 15 in one of my live cities. My Beta city is still plodding through it. I have been in this chapter for what seems to be just short of forever. Week after week, month after month I have been making tier 6, trading tier 6, over and over and over. The only fun has been finally finishing a row of tech to move to the next several weeks of making t6 and trading t6. If this is the plan for the next chapter, and I hope it's not, I may join the event-only cities and not bother with advancing any further.

I recently resurrected an old city that was left in Fairies during the catastrophic wipe of population. I was able to get it up and running and into a decent fellowship. I have made it almost to the end of Woodelves, and the thought of moving ahead into decaying Sentient Goods in Elementals has made me decide to put it back on the shelf. I don't need to, nor want to, go forward, racing headlong back into Chapter 15 again.

Until the very end of Chapter 15, when the entire tech tree was just about finished, we only had one expansion. We have dozens of expansions available, why were we supposed to struggle along with one expansion for a burgeoning settlement and enormous tier 6 buildings? The second expansion was available at just about the time when we could tear down the settlement. This makes no sense, we're not all millionaires. If the expansions were affordable after purchasing several, we would probably all buy more. I have seen some 10% sales, but honestly, I don't actually consider 10% to be a "sale".

In order to make Chapter 16 a LOT more attractive I have a few ideas:
1. Make expansions available early, and affordable, so that we have the fun of setting up a decent settlement.
2. Make the research techs doable in a timely manner so that we have the fun of completing them to move ahead.
3. Make finishing a research less dependent on what others have for their boosted. We lost a player in Beta because she had a boosted goods that no one needed and she couldn't get trades for what was required. She was stuck in the tech tree. That was not fun.

Regardless of how slow you try to make any chapter, there will always be some that will buy their way through it. That is fine. I have no issues with that. I'm actually thrilled that some can do that, it keeps the game alive and well. My issue is to not make a single chapter a lifelong pursuit for the ones that can't. It's not fun.

 

[Arthus]

To make next chapters attractive i have an idea

Stop making so much events and focus to release chapters more often because majority of players did chapter 15 and left the game until chapter 16 comes.

 

[Deleted User - 81190]

I don't get it - you're fine with sitting in past chapter 15 forever (just doing events), but you're not OK with sitting a long time doing a new chapter? It's not like you're forced to complete it in a month. Just treat it like another event that has no specific completion date. Doing that you likely won't need massive space either.

My 0.02.

 

[iDavis]

@Arthus I´m afraid you are shocking wrong. The Elvenar chapter can be done by ... 5% of players I guess? (usual statistics after last chapter were around this number in some of previous chapters). So events are what majority of players can take a part.

 

[Lovec Krys]

The only ones whoe have finished chapter 15 are the ones who can run 3+ T6 manufactories, those who have less (with some exceptions using MM spells &/or time boosters) have not finished the chapter yet, and will not be finished until few more months passes. Those poor who are able to only use 1 T6 manufactory, will finish the chapter in about a year or never.
And yes, I have recently (few days ago) finished the chapter with my main city running 3 T6 manufactories (could have finished it earlier, but Spire eats a lot of expired goods as well as it eats everything else).
Still a lot of upgrading awaits for me (not enough seeds for that).

 

[Maillie]

I am in 3 different fellowships and no one has finished Chapter 15 in any of them. I'm in Ancient Wonders and very close to completion in my city in Winyandor, but I am quite a bit ahead of anyone else. I have 3 T6 in that city. I also have a lot of upgrading to do. It is quite exciting to end this journey.

 

[Arthus]

@Arthus I´m afraid you are shocking wrong. The Elvenar chapter can be done by ... 5% of players I guess? (usual statistics after last chapter were around this number in some of previous chapters). So events are what majority of players can take a part.

Idk in my fellowship there are numbers of people who completed the chapter and left (again) until chapter 16 comes because they don't care about silly events :/ People are working

 

[Lovec Krys]

@Arthus Players in your FS don't play tournament & Spire? Those, played seriously (aka 5k+/10k+ points, 2+ floors) consumes more time than events. And they are weekly.

 

[Arthus]

@Arthus Players in your FS don't play tournament & Spire? Those, played seriously (aka 5k+/10k+ points, 2+ floors) consumes more time than events. And they are weekly.

These who still play are playing tournaments and spire. THe problem is most people in last chapter left until chapter 16 because chapter releasing takes so long that they are bored, also events punish players who have no technologies to discover

 

[Lovec Krys]

@Arthus So you keep them in your fs while they don't play for several months?

 

[CrazyWizard]

@Arthus So you keep them in your fs while they don't play for several months?

Because then he can't complain anymore, he needs reasons to complain.

 

[Arthus]

I am finally finishing Chapter 15 in one of my live cities. My Beta city is still plodding through it. I have been in this chapter for what seems to be just short of forever. Week after week, month after month I have been making tier 6, trading tier 6, over and over and over. The only fun has been finally finishing a row of tech to move to the next several weeks of making t6 and trading t6. If this is the plan for the next chapter, and I hope it's not, I may join the event-only cities and not bother with advancing any further.

I recently resurrected an old city that was left in Fairies during the catastrophic wipe of population. I was able to get it up and running and into a decent fellowship. I have made it almost to the end of Woodelves, and the thought of moving ahead into decaying Sentient Goods in Elementals has made me decide to put it back on the shelf. I don't need to, nor want to, go forward, racing headlong back into Chapter 15 again.

Until the very end of Chapter 15, when the entire tech tree was just about finished, we only had one expansion. We have dozens of expansions available, why were we supposed to struggle along with one expansion for a burgeoning settlement and enormous tier 6 buildings? The second expansion was available at just about the time when we could tear down the settlement. This makes no sense, we're not all millionaires. If the expansions were affordable after purchasing several, we would probably all buy more. I have seen some 10% sales, but honestly, I don't actually consider 10% to be a "sale".

In order to make Chapter 16 a LOT more attractive I have a few ideas:
1. Make expansions available early, and affordable, so that we have the fun of setting up a decent settlement.
2. Make the research techs doable in a timely manner so that we have the fun of completing them to move ahead.
3. Make finishing a research less dependent on what others have for their boosted. We lost a player in Beta because she had a boosted goods that no one needed and she couldn't get trades for what was required. She was stuck in the tech tree. That was not fun.

Regardless of how slow you try to make any chapter, there will always be some that will buy their way through it. That is fine. I have no issues with that. I'm actually thrilled that some can do that, it keeps the game alive and well. My issue is to not make a single chapter a lifelong pursuit for the ones that can't. It's not fun.

Chapter 16 will have 2 million of orcs needed. It will be a long pursuit if you didn't have a lot.

It will be a start of guest races recycling again. They've lost creativity. Name of one of wonders confirms it (also recycled).

 

[Richord]

1; yes
2; NO, we finally got a challenge and skipping wasn't optional in the beginning. chapters are meant to be played, not skipped.
3; NO, work together BUT; it seems goods were unbalanced in the game. this should be checked/corrected.

 

[Lovec Krys]

@Arthus Oh no, so I'm never going back to recruiting Orc strategists? Seems my 9 Armories won't be enough for the chapter.
Are there some spoilers accessible somewhere?

@Richord I no longer enjoy chapters which disturbes my ability to finish Spire and every research or building upgrade consumes 90% of my storage capacity (2 or 3 months after finishing the chapter and I still don't have all the buildings upgraded to their max levels due to their seed&orc requirements (especialy if they are needed also for wonders and Spire consumes a lot of them too)). For me, the best time is now between chapters, when I can play tournament & Spire and raising my wonders undisrupted with the chapter's research.

 

[Deleted User - 81190]

Are there some spoilers accessible somewhere?

Hm:

https://minmaxgame.com/elvenar-embassies-research-preview/

https://minmaxgame.com/elvenar-embassies-production-preview/

https://minmaxgame.com/elvenar-embassies-upgrades-preview/

 

[Lovec Krys]

@MinMax Gamer thx. Didn't know of these before.

ps: Seems that running out of orcs & seeds will be prety common. I suppose that Amuni/Constructs style (Portal + portal profit only) won't be possible for the chapter?

 

[Arthus]

@MinMax Gamer thx. Didn't know of these before.

ps: Seems that running out of orcs & seeds will be prety common. I suppose that Amuni/Constructs style (Portal + portal profit only) won't be possible for the chapter?

Not seeds. Seeds are not needed much except for sentient goods production. In chapter 15 player has enough possibilities to fully support between 6 and 9 sentient goods manufactories without problems. Set buildings from 2018-19, evolution buildings, two of ancient wonders and some festival merchants (best event seed buildings, craftable in magic academy) are enough to keep a steady income of divine seeds.

And this chapter is not as focused on sentient goods as on normal goods.
MinMax made an amazing work in his previews. Check it out.

I've made today a simulation of race Settlement Layout.

You can manage to have Senate (Portal), Embassy of Dwarf, Embassy of Fairies, 5 dwarf production buildings, 5 fairy production buildings and 5 special production buildings in 26x19 space. We will see if there is any limit of buildings possible like in constructs, or if you can have as many as you have space for.

 

[Karvest]

only portal and embassies are limited to 1.

 

[Lovec Krys]

@Arthus Well, I have checked Minmax's preview, and once you have every building upgrade finished, you're fine with seeds, but before you are, building upgrades consumes enormous amount of seeds. It seems that once this chapter goes live, I'm done with upgrading my Simia & Spring for the chapter (I have many older wonders which I can upgrade during that chapter). And upgrading my 9 armories will take forever. And yes, I do have Sunset Towers, Trade Center and 7 Festival merchant. But upgrading recent wonders takes enormous amount of seeds (and Spire's ghosts from 3rd floor are always hungry). And Expired goods are still needed for Spire and wonders upgrade (just today I have used over 400K T6 for upgrading Simia (looking forward for the last crazy amount when upgrading to 26))).

For settlement, I prefer Portal + portal profit version whenever possible - saves resources and space for something actualy usefull.

 

[Deleted User - 81190]

Well, I have checked Minmax's preview, and once you have every building upgrade finished, you're fine with seeds, but before you are, building upgrades consumes enormous amount of seeds.

Settlement upgrades do not take that much in terms of seeds, unless your production is particularly low. IIRC all upgrades take less than 200K of seeds, that's not that much. Total seed requirements for the chapter are actually quite a bit lower than for chapter 15, so if you did chapter 15 you'd be fine. Especially considering that chapter 16 is going to take longer for other reasons.

Having said that, you may load up on Festival Merchants. Double digits are not excessive

And you can still use PPs, but impact will be even more limited. I think it's about 1000% PP max that you can use, and you will still need uncapped resources all the way till the end (unlike chapter 15).

With heavy PP usage you can drop your orcs requirements to less than 1mm IIRC. And Orc Nests are more efficient than Armories if you can handle lower training size.