Discussion Chapter 16: Embassies

[DeletedUser2236]

I am happy there are not 4* units as it means that everyone else isn't being penalised for the most advanced players progress. Unless it was made that the enemy only had them if you were in the chapter that they were unlocked in.

 

[edeba]

People will move to what's best for players, they will see that players will have found the best strategy given the circumstances, and then they will hit it. Wash, rinse, repeat... We've already seen this over and over, and the strategy people move towards will be hit in the next set of adjustments...

@iDavis But what production sets have to do with Spire rewards? No reward in Spire gives T1-3, mana or seeds in the latest chapter. No, there is only one explanation - since the production evo buildings are weak and no match for the old sets, instead of making evo buildings better - which would motivate players to invest in events - they chose to destroy the old sets, which don't motivate to invest anyone.
By destroying old sets, they didn't motivate anyone to invest into the same weak evo buildings (and still becoming even weaker!), they just motivated many players to quit.
By my opinion - very very bad game strategy (unless the goal is to loose all players, cancel the game and do something else (of course this move will not loose them all players at once, but every move like this will motivate increasing amount of players to quit)).

 

[Dony]

@Marindor Can we get a confirmation of which last techs from chapter 16 will become mandatory for chapter 17?
Refined Elvenar Style Main Hall
Tournament Arena
Spire Library
All 3 of them or only Main hall?
Thank you

 

[Marindor]

@Dony No clue yet until we're a lot further with Chapter 17.

 

[Deleted User - 81190]

@Marindor Can we get a confirmation of which last techs from chapter 16 will become mandatory for chapter 17?

Is there any reason not to research all of them at that point (except saving some KPs)?

 

[Dony]

harder spire for future if they are all 3 mandatory

 

[Deleted User - 81190]

harder spire for future if they are all 3 mandatory

I suppose, even though I assume the incremental difference would be pretty minimal. Can just skip all 3 for now, and deal with that when chapter 17 shows up.

 

[Arthus]

I think petition may be needed to change wonders effect.
They both look weak as hell and atract only a very few players from the top10-20 who are fighting for every ranking point.
They are just too weak for effort needed that's all, or add 3rd effect, this is chapter 16 not chapter 1 to have same 6 KP effect on level 30...

Imagine usefullness if they somehow affected the prizes from the spire and tournaments though...
Atm they are not worth being in the city, especially spire library. I'll maybe put tournament arena for drones.

 

[Dony]

I think petition may be needed to change wonders effect.

i am glad this ones are so garbage, for 99,99% players it means free space in city

 

[maxiqbert]

i am glad this ones are so garbage, for 99,99% players it means free space in city

at least for me it's a no brainer.
almost as weak as enar's embassy

 

[iDavis]

I´m reconsidering building these 2 wonders too. For a player who wants ranking points (as me) it´s of course a good addition, but in such an amount, I´m not sure. Even with spire and tourney max fellowship and both wonders at level 30, around 30000 points would take 2 years. That´s simply too long for that value, which is, in chapter 16 and it´s massive buildings upgrades totally negligible. Some balancing here would be great, otherwise I will probably save a lot of space (and KPs mainly).

 

[Potvorisko]

At first I wanted both new wonders, but then I counted it... and I dont know now. I like their look, I like the bonuses, but the ranking points are really low here...I guess I will see, sice they are pretty expensive...

I would not be happy, if I have to remove them off later, same as I did with lighthouse (8lvl), because they destroyed it, endless excavation (7)or Enar (it was hard for me, I had it on 11th level but it was thruly useless....)

 

[CrazyWizard]

I´m reconsidering building these 2 wonders too. For a player who wants ranking points (as me) it´s of course a good addition, but in such an amount, I´m not sure. Even with spire and tourney max fellowship and both wonders at level 30, around 30000 points would take 2 years. That´s simply too long for that value, which is, in chapter 16 and it´s massive buildings upgrades totally negligible. Some balancing here would be great, otherwise I will probably save a lot of space (and KPs mainly).

Every week we battle it out in the tournaments for 1-1000 rankingpoints, for those last 50-100 points we do a lot if your are the player you described.
This is in potential 3-6x that amount and weekly again in potential 1/3rd of the maximum rank points one person can achieve in the tournaments.

That in comparison is huge.
Yes these wonders are useless for anyone who ain't a ranking point, and I don't like that at all. but the accumulation thats what it's all about.
34320 ranking points is 38 consecutive 2nd places in the tournaments.
Compared to those numbers the amount of rankingpoints given away is quite a lot.

 

[DeletedUser2561]

I never though that I would contradict CrazyWizard... but behold, the time has come. Comparing the Arena to tournament rewards is unfair, because tournament rewards do not eat up your city space.

The Arena gives 150 points per week at best (10 chests, wonder level 30) and you can only have it AFTER completing the whole of chapter 16.

A chapter 16 magic residence (and if you are really into ranking points, you will have magic ones) gives 5370 ranking points and uses up the same space. That means a fully evolved Arena needs 36 weeks to catch up to that residence. That's roughly the duration of one chapter, so by the time it catches up, residence level 17 will be available, probably giving around 8000 ranking points, that's another 18 weeks for the Arena to catch up. That may happen at the end of chapter 17 and it will be better than the residence for a few days until residence 18 comes around with 4k more ranking points, equalling 27 weeks again for the Arena to catch up. Residence ranking points will keep growing exponentially while the Arena is at its limits already and will take a total beating by the residence from chapter 19 or 20 onwards.

Remember this is the best-case scenario for the Arena with massive AW investments to reach level 30. If you hit level 16 or 21 only, the Arena may never even match a non-magic residence in ranking points. And we have not even started to compare the Arena to high scoring manufactories and armories...

 

[CrazyWizard]

I never though that I would contradict CrazyWizard... but behold, the time has come. Comparing the Arena to tournament rewards is unfair, because tournament rewards do not eat up your city space.

The Arena gives 150 points per week at best (10 chests, wonder level 30) and you can only have it AFTER completing the whole of chapter 16.

A chapter 16 magic residence (and if you are really into ranking points, you will have magic ones) gives 5370 ranking points and uses up the same space. That means a fully evolved Arena needs 36 weeks to catch up to that residence. That's roughly the duration of one chapter, so by the time it catches up, residence level 17 will be available, probably giving around 8000 ranking points, that's another 18 weeks for the Arena to catch up. That may happen at the end of chapter 17 and it will be better than the residence for a few days until residence 18 comes around with 4k more ranking points, equalling 27 weeks again for the Arena to catch up. Residence ranking points will keep growing exponentially while the Arena is at its limits already and will take a total beating by the residence from chapter 19 or 20 onwards.

Remember this is the best-case scenario for the Arena with massive AW investments to reach level 30. If you hit level 16 or 21 only, the Arena may never even match a non-magic residence in ranking points. And we have not even started to compare the Arena to high scoring manufactories and armories...

Fair point, as said I don't like them in there current form, not that this wonder looked to be designed for the 0.001% of the players who is as much as a nutcase as I am

If you do not have the ability to get them to 30 there kinda useless or if you have better wonders to invest in then these make no sense.
Wonders are on themselves also ranking point creators, the KP you invest in them are also worth points and excees those residences by far so I see those ranking points as a bonus. I need to sink those KP into something anyway and I am running out of wonders to fill. I have 3 wonders I do not like to build and with these 2 new wonders 93 wonderlevels to improve before running into a brick wall which I expect to reach in about 6 months from now at the current rate of KP collections.

There are 2 wonders that give a combined total af 330 a week if you are able to thet them to 30, in the long run they are from purely that point of vieuw always better. I could always delete the wonders but those gained rankingpoints always stay and never go away.

 

[DeletedUser2561]

Well if your alternative is to not spend your KP at all because all wonders are filled up, then we should count those KP-based ranking points as well, and those new wonders make much more sense. As long as I have other useful wonders to fill (And I started the game when halflings were the top tech, so it will take another while till I run out of useful wonder updates), those KP will give the same ranking points no matter where I invest them, so for myself, I will not consider those points in the comparison.

 

[DeletedUser1953]

I think the game was at the end. Chapter 15 and now totally with 16, why continue ? There is no new power or abilities (except some military up in 15), it is even worse with 16 because you loose power (badder T2, SS (tournament cost increase), spire cost increase).

On live, my military & production AWs are at max, i continue to invest in secondary AWs but these increase the cost in the spire (and why ? it is secondary AW not usefull for the spire).
I have no interest in ranking point, if i need to stop invest in AW (recommened by Inno because i receive spire penalty to invest in this and no return, i already need 6 armories for the spire !) => stop the city ? Too, with the return of casino system in the event, i am totally depited. Without WW, no need to play secondary town, i think it is the end.
Power creep is the essence of the player !

 

[Dony]

I think we as a players miss a vision from devs about where the game will go, they dont care much about communicating that with community, we live in uncertainty. In chapter 15 we got our last 3 units, we have no clue if by that they ended with whole combat forever or there will be something coming combat related in the future (new units, new ranks, new abilities, new gear for units, new buffs, new battlefields, new difficulties), they introduced slot machine in winter because they want the game to be fresh and introduced something new, but exactly same fresh air needs research tree, chapter 16 is another boring chapter (there is nothing new or exciting or challenging, its all same again as last chapters) with barely any power for cities, if this will continue in next 10 chapters how excited players will be about it? Or rathed bored about it? Wouldnt the probability of spending or investing into game go down?

Its exactly the same with events, they are reducing power of rewards, but they dont bother to communicate about it with community, of course players dont like it, we have no clue how deep we will go down, devaluing diamonds (you get less power per diamonds spent), but prizes are still high.

It would be different if we could see some light on the end of the tunnel, where we are going.

 

[Maillie]

I'm just an average player, not a point chaser, I can't afford that, although I'm highly appreciative of those that can. I see a lot of negativity in this chapter regarding AW's, fighters, etc. I do believe that for the regular players that are just here to enjoy a simple game, buy some diamonds occasionally for an expansion, and return daily to catch up on some chat, this is turning out to be a really good chapter. I'm totally enjoying the fact that when I log in I have something to do, unlike chapter 15 which was all about a mindless Make it Trade it, Make it Trade it fiasco, totally dependent on what the neighbors were making (and charging).

Some of the things I'm enjoying:
*Small buildings that only need to be attached to another of the same. This saves a lot of space from having to add roads, canals, or whatever.
*Settlement goods that are finished on a schedule with regular goods to get us started in the chapter.
*Attractive buildings. The Senate is beautiful, even when in build mode.
*Inexpensive upgrades.

The one thing that least impresses me is ... the fairy. Fairies are light little creatures that go flitting through the air. We have a fairy that can't jump over a shoe box. I can't quite picture that fairy flying around with a wand in her hand

 

[Jaxom]

Wonderful comments Dony!
As it stands I will start work on Chapter 16 on Beta when my 3 ferris wheels and 4 wishing wells expire. Not going to waste them. And I need to stock up Orcs.
And I plan to go very slowly as I need to keep some space open to support my fellowship in FAs.

I have no intention to go past researching the Senate on my live worlds. I will wait for Chapter 17 and if something great is added I will slowly move forward.

As for events, if they don't improve I won't bother with them. I'll just put RRs into existing buildings until the improvement flattens out.

The question for me is starting to be, why continue playing if there is nothing new to look forward to. Chapter 16 looks to be so boring that doing it once may be all that I can manage.