Can we have separate tabs for Visits and Trades???

[Karvest]

Sending a merchant offering highest demand good doesn't make this good less demand, sending a merchant asking for the same highest demand good and taking only "hat" trades - does.

 

[Alcaro]

I don't understand this. I have 15% of my notifications being merchant trades. I have 23% normal trade notifications and 62% visits. I'm not seeing a problem in my own city.

You have at most 5 merchants, and they take 6 hours to come back, so that's at most 20 notifications per day, unless you make popular trades. (I'm boosted in the least popular T7 good.) But if your trades are popular, there should be listings you can take instead of just relying on the merchant.

Ultimately, that's one of the flaws with the math here -- it assumes you don't accept any trades but instead only post them. The other big flaw is that those trades don't have to happen all on one day. (I certainly can't get enough materials for 10 towers in one day, and if I did, I would happily accept a full log of notifications.)

I still just don't see how this can be a problem.

If you don't get it, let me clarify it for you. Many players with desired boosted to not use the Merchants, so I send them out and my trades are picked by them. So I send them out again ... and again. Were days when I literally had only Merchants notifications. Other days, when I posted normal trades, that also pushed out most of notifications from visitors. With the new relocation in live servers, I counted, I have over 100 active neighbours - which is fantastic - to whom I can't return the visits from notification tray.
About what you can or can not, this isn't part of the discussion Some can do things you can't and vice-versa.

 

[ekarat]

If you don't get it, let me clarify it for you. Many players with desired boosted to not use the Merchants, so I send them out and my trades are picked by them. So I send them out again ... and again. Were days when I literally had only Merchants notifications. Other days, when I posted normal trades, that also pushed out most of notifications from visitors. With the new relocation in live servers, I counted, I have over 100 active neighbours - which is fantastic - to whom I can't return the visits from notification tray.
About what you can or can not, this isn't part of the discussion Some can do things you can't and vice-versa.

It is literally impossible for the merchant notifications to prevent you from seeing visits. Why? Because you can only get at most 5 of them at a time. Simply, return visits before sending out the merchant again. Specifically, click on the notification icon. Click anyone who helped and then click on the merchant notification, which takes you to the merchant to make another trade. You have the power to prevent this from being a problem.

 

[Karvest]

That can work only if everybody visit you every day at the same time and it's not you who visited first. But since NH chain begins with visiting the whole map at once - most visits would be on cooldown when you receive NH back. And the more trade notifications you have - the more NH notifications would be pushed out before you have a chance to give NH back again. That's a problem even without trade notifications, but they make it way worse.

 

[edeba]

I don't understand this. I have 15% of my notifications being merchant trades. I have 23% normal trade notifications and 62% visits. I'm not seeing a problem in my own city.

You have at most 5 merchants, and they take 6 hours to come back, so that's at most 20 notifications per day, unless you make popular trades. (I'm boosted in the least popular T7 good.) But if your trades are popular, there should be listings you can take instead of just relying on the merchant.

Ultimately, that's one of the flaws with the math here -- it assumes you don't accept any trades but instead only post them. The other big flaw is that those trades don't have to happen all on one day. (I certainly can't get enough materials for 10 towers in one day, and if I did, I would happily accept a full log of notifications.)

I still just don't see how this can be a problem.

I have 53% being merchant trades, 17% non-fellowship visits, and 30% fellowship visits. It is only 10 out the 60 that are useful for return visits as the FS members can be done from the FS tab.

Further, I slowed right down on trading the t8 because it will be at least a week before I can use any and I'm short on the t2 that uses it up so I figured decaying my most needed resource was better than decaying to something I have in excess. It was way more merchants trades before I let them sit idle at times.

I am completely missing return visits because with the merchants, I need about 20-25 pages for just one day of activity. When the chapter is over I might consider visiting my map to see who it captures for return visits, but there isn't much point now because they will just scroll off before I can return visit.

 

[edeba]

It is literally impossible for the merchant notifications to prevent you from seeing visits. Why? Because you can only get at most 5 of them at a time. Simply, return visits before sending out the merchant again. Specifically, click on the notification icon. Click anyone who helped and then click on the merchant notification, which takes you to the merchant to make another trade. You have the power to prevent this from being a problem.

Eekk... How long have you been playing to actually write and believe that?

That can work only if everybody visit you every day at the same time and it's not you who visited first. But since NH chain begins with visiting the whole map at once - most visits would be on cooldown when you receive NH back. And the more trade notifications you have - the more NH notifications would be pushed out before you have a chance to give NH back again. That's a problem even without trade notifications, but they make it way worse.

Thank you Karvest for a clear description of how it actually works. I have less than day of notification on live with the merchants and I have about 2 days on beta without the merchants.

Even a "hide trade/merchant notifications" and letting the existing structure repopulate without those notifications would fix the problem.

 

[Karvest]

I have about 2 days on beta without the merchants.
Even a "hide trade/merchant notifications" and letting the existing structure repopulate without those notifications would fix the problem.

It won't help. You have that little incoming visits due to the same problem of your neighbors - your visits are pushed out from their list too. And once any of you miss only one visit - chain is broken and both of you will never see each other until you or your neighbor will go to world map and cover it with NH again (which is quite annoying even if you can give NH directly from the map).

NH notifications should be on the separate tab that have unlimited pages, but show only latest NH notification for each player, and only if it occurred within, say, 1 month. + neighbors should be automatically removed from that list if they are relocated away (well, last is not really necessary, as relocated players would just sit at the end of list for that month and will be pushed out afterwards).

 

[ekarat]

It won't help. You have that little incoming visits due to the same problem of your neighbors - your visits are pushed out from their list too. And once any of you miss only one visit - chain is broken and both of you will never see each other until you or your neighbor will go to world map and cover it with NH again (which is quite annoying even if you can give NH directly from the map).

That's not true. It only takes one person to keep up the chain, as long as one of them hasn't scrolled away. And mine don't scroll away because I don't get merchant trades. Even if someone misses a visit, I can catch them the next day, since I don't have this problem.

That can work only if everybody visit you every day at the same time and it's not you who visited first. But since NH chain begins with visiting the whole map at once - most visits would be on cooldown when you receive NH back. And the more trade notifications you have - the more NH notifications would be pushed out before you have a chance to give NH back again. That's a problem even without trade notifications, but they make it way worse.

The bit about everybody visiting every day at the same time is untrue and irrelevant unless you artificially constrain yourself to do visits only once a day, which I certainly don't and have been advocating otherwise.

Okay, you want a log of who visits you to extend to 48 hours because you might be on cooldown because you visited them first. I can see that and make sense of why you want a dedicated visit log that doesn't scroll things away. Thank you.

 

[ekarat]

Eekk... How long have you been playing to actually write and believe that?

5 years, and I kept saying to myself that if I quit this game, it will be because I'm sick of doing visits. And then I did quit because I was sick of doing visits. I'm only back now because they implemented quick visits on desktop. I'm saying that I'm biased because I don't like doing visits.

 

[Karvest]

That's not true. It only takes one person to keep up the chain, as long as one of them hasn't scrolled away. And mine don't scroll away because I don't get merchant trades. Even if someone misses a visit, I can catch them the next day, since I don't have this problem.

I have more daily visitors than can fit in 10 pages of notifications, if I will give NH only to those who are listed in those 10 pages, I would miss reply to the half of incoming NH, and my active (those who only reply from notifications every day or two) neighbors count would be eventually reduced from 70+ to ~40.

 

[Alcaro]

NH notifications should be on the separate tab that have unlimited pages, but show only latest NH notification for each player, and only if it occurred within, say, 1 month. + neighbors should be automatically removed from that list if they are relocated away (well, last is not really necessary, as relocated players would just sit at the end of list for that month and will be pushed out afterwards).

Perfect idea!!! I concur.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I probably said this in yet another thread asking for this, but visits from fellowship members should not be in the notifications anyway. No one visits their fellowship from the notifications. Take those up to 24 notices out and that is 24 more world map visits that will show in the notices instead.

 

[Karvest]

With my suggestion FS visits in notifications are not a problem. And seeing last NH from FS there is comfy to track FS activity, especially with guild XP nowadays.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

With my suggestion FS visits in notifications are not a problem. And seeing last NH from FS there is comfy to track FS activity, especially with guild XP nowadays.

On the Live servers, with all the movement, I can now get well over 60 map visits a day, so yes, they are still a problem, especially in the app, where making the list unlimited would put a strain on devices that are borderline for processing the game. Maybe after the next time they have to upgrade the game enough that more older devices are made incompatible without a newer operating system requirement or a higher RAM minimum to play the game.

 

[Lovec Krys]

Maybe after the next time they have to upgrade the game enough that more older devices are made incompatible without a newer operating system requirement or a higher RAM minimum to play the game.

Have you ever seen any new software version being less demanding on resources than the previous one?
I can guarantee that, with some rare exceptions, that is not going to happen.

@ekarat Have you ever been trading large amount of goods by using merchants with someone? (like 100k goods by repeatedly using 2k trades in 15 min crazy clicking wiping all the others notifications)

 

[pepem]

+ 1

 

[Karvest]

On the Live servers, with all the movement, I can now get well over 60 map visits a day, so yes, they are still a problem, especially in the app, where making the list unlimited would put a strain on devices that are borderline for processing the game.

Not sure about app, but browser version can handle 17 pages of notifications (with my current PoC implementation of suggested server logic) way easier than fighting 17 provinces in tourney (which I can't do without a few game restarts)

 

[ekarat]

Have you ever seen any new software version being less demanding on resources than the previous one?
I can guarantee that, with some rare exceptions, that is not going to happen.

@ekarat Have you ever been trading large amount of goods by using merchants with someone? (like 100k goods by repeatedly using 2k trades in 15 min crazy clicking wiping all the others notifications)

Nope. Never had that opportunity, since nobody wants my ingots. That is why this seems so unfamiliar to me, and only a problem for people luckier than me.

 

[Alcaro]

Nope. Never had that opportunity, since nobody wants my ingots. That is why this seems so unfamiliar to me, and only a problem for people luckier than me.

Sorry to know that you are in this situation. You should come to en2 where ingots are all that everybody want

Might seem a little divagation from OP but when you choose what trades to pick, by default you choose known names. And here comes the visiting part. I visit daily my neighbours to "transform" them into partners. Not last, I message them to thank them for helping with my trades and I also asked for help from some players I knew they have Ingots (the shortage of en2).
Since Inno doesn't care about our struggle (and there's noting we can do) all we can do is to alleviate the pain by working and communicating together.

 

[ekarat]

Sorry to know that you are in this situation. You should come to en2 where ingots are all that everybody want

Might seem a little divagation from OP but when you choose what trades to pick, by default you choose known names. And here comes the visiting part. I visit daily my neighbours to "transform" them into partners. Not last, I message them to thank them for helping with my trades and I also asked for help from some players I knew they have Ingots (the shortage of en2).
Since Inno doesn't care about our struggle (and there's noting we can do) all we can do is to alleviate the pain by working and communicating together.

Thank you for the well-reasoned explanation. I admit that visits are my least favorite part of the game, so I do those in my log and don't worry if people drop off. But now at least I understand your experience and where you are coming from, even though I didn't at first.

I will support you in your request to have the log separated.