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Battling versus catering in Scrolls Encounter

shadowblack

Well-Known Member
I don't know about players using only 2, but I can show you a player that uses only 3 boosted Tier I factories: Me. In four cities I have always used 3 Tier I, 3 Tier II, and 2 or 3 Tier III factories, regardless of chapter. During events I might build extra Tier I factories, and later delete them, but that's it.

For the record, the only time I have used non-boosted factories for an extended period of time was in my main city (EN2), long ago when Dwarves were the only Guest Race, the world in question was young, and no one in my area of the map was producing Gems or Magic Dust. At that time there were so few trades for those resources that it was faster to produce them myself. But as the number of advanced players in that world increased non-boosted factories became unnecessary.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
@shadowblack & @SoggyShorts please find a person at chapter 3 that has only two tier 1 factories. No one plays like that.
No one is recommending that. The exact opposite in fact, we recommend you replace non boosted with more boosted.
I know they don't have non-boosted that's why I want you guys to use them as an example. Pick one? the one that starts with a T?
Ok, tradescantia, joined us just over a month ago. What about them? Use them as an example how?
 

Soleil

Guest
Shadowblack and you both have used the example of 800 goods/100 goods scenario. It wasn't me... I'm saying no one only builds 2 boosted factories and to use something that is more relevant.

Use Tradescantia's city and their set up and show me why this is so much better to build that way. When will she demolish those extra marble buildings and at what level and how many? How much is her catering costs compared to mine on the map to be able to put all of that in? what are her culture needs compared to mine? What are her residential needs compared to mine?

Maybe you can change my mind, probably not. :D
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
Use Tradescantia's city and their set up and show me why this is so much better to build that way. When will she demolish those extra marble buildings and at what level and how many?
Why she would even demolish them? I had my 8 boosted planks at start, I have them now in elementals. Not sure if I'll upgrade them all at this chapter, but probably will do it at constructs (if no descent set producing t1 comes up in future events - in that case I may replace some of them with set buildings)
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Shadowblack and you both have used the example of 800 goods/100 goods scenario. It wasn't me... I'm saying no one only builds 2 boosted factories and to use something that is more relevant.
The reason for 100/800 example is that a non-boosted makes 100%, and a boosted with max boost makes 100+700=800%
You can apply it to any number of factories at any level-- boosted will make 8x non-boosted (until you get the mountain halls wonder, then even more)

got 2 factories? 200 vs 1600
got 10 factories? 1,000 vs 8,000

For your specific city,
press hotkey "s" to see your relics
Look at your planks boost %
Close that window
Open your marble factory
See the production
Multiply that production by the planks boost you saw earlier

That is how many goods you are losing.
 

Soleil

Guest
It's not what I asked for. Scroll up, my questions are still there.
 

Arayla

Well-Known Member
While I completely support building only boosted factories, I checked Soleil's position on the world map. It will be very difficult there to obtain trades without being in a fellowship, especially as a small city. If a player sincerely wants to go solo, and is in a bad map location for trading, then having 1 of everything may be helpful even if it makes the game progress much, much slower. It is somewhat like knowing that there may be car accidents on the interstate that cause traffic to stop briefly and choosing to drive only on small roads. Eventually one will arrive at the destination.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
I wonder if "Allow automatic movement to better position" checkbox in settings would help in this situation. If not - FS is anyway better solution then a bunch of non-boosted factories, even if you ignore all other aspects than trading.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Took a wild guess that you have 43 plank and 43 silk relics for 200% boost

https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/4692ff80c9884ecc8d77da56e3eedc04/
891 planks+marble+steel
515 crystal+silk+scrolls
8 empty squares

Without changing any buildings other than removing non-boosted and upgrading boosted:
https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/94dc36ef3e1548d7a5464d6ac995d64a/
1840 planks <----that's over 100% more than you are currently making meaning you could offer 2:1 trades and still be ahead.
648 silk
30 empty squares (about 100 more if you replace bad culture and redundant roads)

5 planks and 3 silk is a little overkill late game, but you could easily keep them forever.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@shadowblack & @SoggyShorts please find a person at chapter 3 that has only two tier 1 factories. No one plays like that.
Experienced players who start a new city (for example me when starting beta, I've never build non-boosted ones (with exception for events and maybe some chapter I quests)).
Newcomers do it usualy later (see my example).
You don't need to replace them all immediatelly. Just build an 1 additional boosted of each tier and start trading for non-boosted (since you're small city, just post the trades).
If this works, you can slowly start replacing non-boosted ones right away.
 
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Soleil

Guest
I didn’t ask for you to redo my city, plus my tier 2 is scrolls, not silk. And in chapter 3, you can’t build level 10 planks. The difference is not as large as you’re making it.

Bottom line, I’m not changing my city. Because it’s not about max production, but balance. And the city you created, there is no balance. I have what I need and still trade. It’s also not about being self-sufficient. My needs are not as great as someone who has over-scouted and doing tournament after tournament. The only reason I would re-do my city the way soggy is suggesting, is to say “Dude, I can make 1200 planks every 9 hours”.

While I don’t know what tournament catering costs are for over-scouting. I do know that someone who has over-scouted to the point of being able to open the 5th chapter chest but are in chapter 3, is roughly 2,300% to 6,500% greater than mine for every encounter they do after that.

The only way I could keep 5 or more maxed boosted tier 1 factories is by not building the wonders. Which anyone who has that many factories, never has very many wonders 3-12 out of a possible 26 wonders. Soggy has 16 out of 26 And now has 6 of the 9 maxed factories? But only 1 now of his boosted tier 1 planks and of course the marble factory for sentient goods. If I recall, you used to have at least 8 tier 1 planks factories. There may be a point some of your armories are coming down too. (when a quest calls for 9 max factories) The quest you’re getting ready to do is to build 6 factories at level 25.

In the end, Soggy may have a balanced city. Soggy is so much closer than he used to be. And each of you in this thread, may have one too. I’ve started my balanced city early to help me with not being a wasteful builder.
 
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SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
While I don’t know what tournament catering costs are for over-scouting. I do know that someone who has over-scouted to the point of being able to open the 5th chapter chest but are in chapter 3, is roughly 2,300% to 6,500% greater than mine for every encounter they do after that.
Wrong. 100% wrong.
Overscouting doesn't increase tournament costs. We've been over this, tournament costs are only a factor of your squad size.
in chapter 3, you can’t build level 10 planks. The difference is not as large as you’re making it.
You sure about that?
broken recipe.png
The only way I could keep 5 or more maxed boosted tier 1 factories is by not building the wonders.
Wrong again.
Wonders save space.The more good wonders you have, the easier it is to fit more factories in. I have all of the good ones BTW.
Here's my list:
"No brainers"
  • EE, PT, ToS. Each of them are better than workshops at level 1(with extremely rare exceptions like making bread 24/7, only collecting from PT once a day, and 72H+ scout times)
  • Shrewdly shrooms- this building is an absolute must have if you want to use military. Even at level 1 it's better than a third armory, and it takes up zero pop.
  • Dwarven bulwark-generally KP invested in the shrewdly is better than the dwarven bulwark, but you might unlock the bulwark months earlier which makes this a great wonder until then, and if you level it, it's not worth deleting.
  • Needles-again, only military, but most troops come from barracks, and once you reach a point where your barracks level is always at max, then the only way to get more troops is this wonder(or crafting)
  • Monastery/sanctuary after the shrewdly this is hands down the best military wonder. The only way to gain an advantage over the enemy in tournaments is to have buffed troops, and this is the only wonder that buffs all of them.
  • Mountain halls- any build that has at least 6 factories is better off building a MThall than building a 7th factory. The more factories the better it is, and that's not even counting the pop it gives you so basically it's always good.
  • Golden abyss-as mentioned above, once this gives better pop per square than a house (around chapter 5/6) it's an obvious win.
The absolute worst wonders are imo:
  • Maze/Enars-every event offers a building that is far far better per square at mana production.
  • Thrones- not terrible for culture, but every KP invested would better be spent elsewhere.
  • Blooming trader- if you win 1 trading post per event you are better off than having a level 11 BTG. And you save 17 squares. No, the wholesale reduction isn't great, go buy KP instead;)
  • Pyramid-craft a vallorian vallor or 2 instead.
  • LoGN- very niche wonder with a fatal flaw: you need buffs on mana buildings which generally arent your best culture buildings. If someone has a strategy where this wonder makes sense, I'd love to hear it.
  • Sunset towers- this wonder comes far too late to be of any use. The need for seeds drops dramatically in Amuni, so if there isn't a massive increase in seed requirements for chapter 14 it's a rather pointless wonder. Edit: there wasn't a massive increase, so just grab an event building that gives seeds instead.

Then come the other culture wonders. If you like the super efficient culture&pop hybrids from events and get about 30-40%+ of your pop from them, then you will have no need for pure culture buildings in your city meaning the watch tower and lighthouse combo has no value as you won't need any culture buffs to hit 150% bonus- this is an especially effective strategy for players in more casual FS where they can't count on a lot of visits as they will see a better return after about 20-30% pop from hybrids.
If, for some reason, you don't do events, or choose other event buildings than the hybrids, then YMMV.

Special mention:
  • Dragon abbey-a really cool wonder where you can get instant mana by spamming spells. The problem is that crafting might get better and better and the CC spell doesn't give mana. Also, you need to run your magic academy pretty much 24/7 to build up enough spells to make it useful meaning a greater commitment to the tournament for needed relics. Finally, you can't really use this as your only mana source and use spells often( like constant PoP or MM)
  • All other military wonders. If you get heavy into the tournaments, then you'll want to start adding in either the wonders that shore up your weak spots (human heavy ranged+toads) or doubles down on your strengths (dogs+victory springs) as space allows.
  • Elvenar trade center- good for getting needed seeds in elementals, but much less needed in Amuni...but the boost to MM is quite powerful, so I'd say it's playstyle dependent.
A quick note about the "build them all" strategy: it's true that every wonder is better than not having it(ignoring space efficiency), but if you build them all then you will largely have luck dictate which ones you can level up.
Without some skipped wonders like the lighthouse or thrones that you can use to smash runes and fill wanted wonders, you need a combination of luck, patience or diamonds to get the runes you need.

The only reason I would re-do my city the way soggy is suggesting, is to say “Dude, I can make 1200 planks every 9 hours”.
No, the reason is to say "Dude, I have 125 open squares in my city to play with" instead of "Dude how am I supposed to fit a 5x5 portal and 20 dwarven factories?"
Being effecient early makes a huge difference. Your build it incredibly wasteful right now, but It's fine, you'll learn eventually...too bad it'll be later and much more painful, but I guess some folks are just un-teachable.
I’ve started my balanced city early to help me with not being a wasteful builder.
This is the fundamental flaw in your reasoning. Balanced does not mean efficient. In fact, being "balanced" by building non-boosted is the most wasteful thing you can do.
 
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