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Discussion Balancing Changes: Moonstone Library

Aeva

Well-Known Member
That would be totally fair, since the old players have already harvested the MA prices for their sets all those years

That is not fair at all. The assumption is that everybody regardless of how long you been playing and how much you invested and how many hours you play, has the same rights (on buildings) within the game. Which means that if I would check in every other day for 15 minutes I would have a 'right' to gain the same rewards as someone who checks in daily, plays gold in the spire and is permanently in the top of ones world in tournayscores.

So what if you have been playing several years and you have more stuff then newbies. If you spend a lot of time trying to learn as much as you can about the game, the spire and the tournays are easier then for newbies.

The whole issue with the moonstonelibrary is that the devs did not think about it enough to avoid the obvious mistake: overflooding the market with scrolls.
You cannot correct that by taking something away which has been won or given. But a change like the one that has been made will have a possitive effect on the market in the long run and that is what it is all about.
 

yakmeister

Well-Known Member
I would suggest a means for the game to count sets in a city and then adjust the production, so that a second or lets say a third set does not produce Fragments and CC's any more. That would be totally fair, since the old players have already harvested the MA prices for their sets all those years and such been richly rewarded for the efforts of obtaining the libs. If the limit is at 2 sets, new players should be able to obtain a second set. The productions of the moonstone sets surpassing 2 can be adjusted to boost +1. And then maybe extra features like the Evo Buildings have, to make a set comparable in worth to a Evo Building (in terms of overall worth per Size), and here using a counter again, so that with each extra set there is a new extra feature (Like producing KP, AW's and so on)). Also one has to think about farms of mana plants, gum plants ans moonstone gates. Maybe if other buildings with the same outstanding productiveness are offered in the spire, or even a continuation of those buildings (boost+1) , but not main lib, that might solve it.

Sounds like you are wanting to punish long term players who spent troops and goods playing the spire to collect those sets and that is not right at all.

I would agree that newer players should have the ability to collect more than 1 set but dont take benefits away from the older players that faithfully spent the time to collect multiple sets
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Ditto.
I know a few players like enehav and crazywiz don't experience this, but for many, it is a serious issue despite decay.
I am not saying there ain't an issue, I am saying it ain't as bas as scrolls due to decay there is always a need for those goods.
Nobody can stock up unlimited gum to a point they cannot get rid of it ever again.
 

Jammin

Well-Known Member
I can't really see the cons, the fact that there are now 2 very powerful recipes is just another benefit for those who already have a lot of library sets as these recipes are the response to the many sets. It doesn't matter which goods the library produces in the end, it doesn't make the set any worse. Nothing was taken away, only exchanged.
If that improves the situation for other Elvenars, I don't have a problem if Gumtree and Gate also produce something else, the main thing is that they produce something similar.
 

The Fairy

Well-Known Member
I am not saying there ain't an issue, I am saying it ain't as bas as scrolls due to decay there is always a need for those goods.
Nobody can stock up unlimited gum to a point they cannot get rid of it ever again.

I agree that you won't end up with huge amounts of sentient goods like you do with scrolls. But the impression I get from my fellows is that it is just as hard to trade gum and bismuth as scrolls so in that sense I think it is just as bad as scrolls?
 

maxiqbert

Well-Known Member
I agree that you won't end up with huge amounts of sentient goods like you do with scrolls. But the impression I get from my fellows is that it is just as hard to trade gum and bismuth as scrolls so in that sense I think it is just as bad as scrolls?
no it isn't
it's true that there is slightly more gum and bismuth available than other sensibles, but you can still trade it, there still are people that need some
 

FieryArien

Well-Known Member
no it isn't
it's true that there is slightly more gum and bismuth available than other sensibles, but you can still trade it, there still are people that need some
Lucky for you! It isn’t so on my live server. Gum isn’t even my boost, I get some from my Gum Trees and then only when I see my fellow’s trades (it’s his boost) and still I have much more gum than moonstone or platinum. And it seems that when the balance gets lower, it’s in great part due to decay, not by being able to trade it.

My boost is bismuth and I remember being totally desperate because of my problems trading it. For some unknown reason it got slightly better over time, at least on my live server. It still is, without any doubt, the worst T6 boost, but not as bad as gum in T4. That one is just unbelievable.
 

Brummbaer

Well-Known Member
I can't confirm the bismuth problem.
In the trader, I find 3 pages for bismuth demand, 4 pages of shrooms demand and NO demand for soap.
My boosted good is soap :-( and nobody need it (at the moment and very often during the last chapters)
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Lucky for you! It isn’t so on my live server. Gum isn’t even my boost, I get some from my Gum Trees and then only when I see my fellow’s trades (it’s his boost) and still I have much more gum than moonstone or platinum. And it seems that when the balance gets lower, it’s in great part due to decay, not by being able to trade it.

My boost is bismuth and I remember being totally desperate because of my problems trading it. For some unknown reason it got slightly better over time, at least on my live server. It still is, without any doubt, the worst T6 boost, but not as bad as gum in T4. That one is just unbelievable.

"remember" sounds like when contructs was released at that time it was a sentient good massacre. 1 world it was bismut, another world soap
It was all based on what research at that most people where researching and what the sentient imbalance was on that world.

After most people completed constructs the goods issue pretty much settled down and 90% of the issues dissappeared.
off course there is still an imbalance, the real dire troubles people had no longer exist, there are now so many players who can help out. compared to no players who could help out as everyone was fighting for the same goods.

You cannot compare the contruct release to today's market.
The days of 60+ pages of bismut for soap are long gone.
It might be a bit harder to trade but people still need it. even with 10 library sets an advanced player still needs the market for sentient goods including bismut and gumtree.

I can't confirm the bismuth problem.
In the trader, I find 3 pages for bismuth demand, 4 pages of shrooms demand and NO demand for soap.
My boosted good is soap :-( and nobody need it (at the moment and very often during the last chapters)

The main difference is that sentient can be traded worldwide, thjs means that any imbalance in sentient players most likely has a bigger impact on sentient goods

For example these days I experience a slightly harder tendens to get velvet. that is a bonus good most often combined with scrolls
With a worldwide market you cannot compare a need for standard goods with sentient, standard goods is a market of 250 people , sentient is a 40K people market. so if there is a boosted imbalance of 500 people guess what happens? you will see many pages of goods
 

FieryArien

Well-Known Member
"remember" sounds like when contructs was released at that time it was a sentient good massacre. 1 world it was bismut, another world soap
It was all based on what research at that most people where researching and what the sentient imbalance was on that world.

After most people completed constructs the goods issue pretty much settled down and 90% of the issues dissappeared.
off course there is still an imbalance, the real dire troubles people had no longer exist, there are now so many players who can help out. compared to no players who could help out as everyone was fighting for the same goods.

You cannot compare the contruct release to today's market.
The days of 60+ pages of bismut for soap are long gone.
I hadn’t caught up with chapter releases until the recent Traders Team Spirit chapter was released. And even there I was about three weeks late to the party. ;) So no, your assumption isn’t correct, I didn’t play Constructs right when the chapter was released.

PS: please fix my quote in your last post - your response I quoted here wrongly shows as my quote in your last post.
I can't confirm the bismuth problem.
In the trader, I find 3 pages for bismuth demand, 4 pages of shrooms demand and NO demand for soap.
My boosted good is soap :-( and nobody need it (at the moment and very often during the last chapters)
Interesting. It’s probably the second time I hear about server where there’s other than bismuth problem in T6. Maybe it was you also the first time, lol. Anyway, that seems to confirm than from the scrolls-gum-bismuth trio, the last one is the least problematic.
 
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Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Interesting. It’s probably the second time I hear about server where there’s other than bismuth problem in T6. Maybe it was you also the first time, lol. Anyway, that seems to confirm than from the scrolls-gum-bismuth trio, the last one is the least problematic.

It is the same on the US servers. Players boosted in Soap always have to offer extra in their trades to get them taken in a reasonable amount of time.

And of course the sentient goods imbalances will shift around over time as more people advance into chapter 12 and beyond.
 

The Fairy

Well-Known Member
It is the same on the US servers. Players boosted in Soap always have to offer extra in their trades to get them taken in a reasonable amount of time.

I have only reached sentient in US-Felyndral, but there I am VERY happy that I am boosted in soap and not bismuth:
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SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
It is the same on the US servers. Players boosted in Soap always have to offer extra in their trades to get them taken in a reasonable amount of time.
That was NOT the case in Winy or Khel, US2&4. Bizmuth was the absolute worst boost to have on both of them.
*Edit: yup, still the case multiple pages of Bizmuth offers at a discount and only a couple of cross trades or 1-stars up offering soap and shrooms. Or 1:1 soap shrooms
Bizmuth blows.
 

Tomtimmon

Well-Known Member
To get back on topic what do you think about changing the gum tree and mana plant to making different t3/sentient and having on at plus one and the other at plus two?
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
That was NOT the case in Winy or Khel, US2&4. Bizmuth was the absolute worst boost to have on both of them.
*Edit: yup, still the case multiple pages of Bizmuth offers at a discount and only a couple of cross trades or 1-stars up offering soap and shrooms. Or 1:1 soap shrooms
Bizmuth blows.

US1 (Arendyll) as well.
For pages demanding goods: 5 bismuth, 13 soap, 49 shrooms
For pages offering goods: 46 bismuth, 15 soap, 3 shrooms

The trades offering shrooms are mostly 0-star with a few 1-star.

Bismuth is still worse than soap here, but soap is much worse than shrooms.
 

Arthus

Well-Known Member
The more diversity in buildings, the better. Some evolving buildings should follow these changes.
 
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